Phasing out RA-1s by 2009

[mitchntx]

I don't think this has been posted over here ...



NASA Spec Tire Program Update
RICHMOND, CA (January 10, 2008) — The National Auto Sport Association (NASA) announced today that three classes will lead the implementation of the new Toyo R888 tire for NASA’s spec tire program. Racers in the SpecE30, 944 Spec, and Spec Focus class will all switch to the R888 from the previous RA-1 tire on June 2, 2008. Racers will be allowed to use both the R888 and RA-1 from January 1, 2008 until the June cutover date when the R888 will be the required tire.

NASA’s other spec tire programs will remain on the RA-1 for the balance of 2008, but will begin using the R888 on January 1, 2009 as the RA-1 is phased out by Toyo in favor of the R888.

Questions regarding the spec tire program can be directed to National Competition Manager Bryan Cohn at competition@drivenasa.com.



So, use up that stash of RA1s this year.

R888s will be available in 255s first quarter of 08, according to racetire.com

[GlennCMC70]

its not going to be a "on/off" switch like change over. its already been talked about that there will be a period of time where both tires will be legal to use. my best guess is the RA1 will be the only legal tire in CMC for the 2008 Nats and the R888 will be the only legal tire in the 2009 Nats. between those times, i think the regional directors will allow a period of time in which both are legal.

[Todd Covini]

I was going to talk about this at the banquet but AL wouldn't let me. :roll: :D

[mitchntx]

Work is getting in the way. I submitted that post before I had a chance to add ...

All the info is here ...
http://www.nasaproracing.com/

and wanted to add this to the quote above ...




RICHMOND, CA (January 10, 2008) — The National Auto Sport Association (NASA) announced today that three classes will lead the implementation of the new Toyo R888 tire for NASA’s spec tire program. Racers in the SpecE30, 944 Spec, and Spec Focus class will all switch to the R888 from the previous RA-1 tire on June 2, 2008. Racers will be allowed to use both the R888 and RA-1 from January 1, 2008 until the June cutover date when the R888 will be the required tire.



So there is a 6 month period beginning Jan1 to use up inventory in the now affected classes. I suspect we'll get the same courtesy.

I didn't post this as a "sky is falling". Just information for future planning.

[AI#97]

Well, given the R888 is following the pricing structure of the Nitto line and is SUBSTANTIALLY higher priced than the RA1's, there has been some grumbling on the AI National site that TOYO needs to go away as the spec tire. R888's will now be the most expensive DOT tire available in 275/40/17 and that includes Hoosiers. It's an even wider gap in the newly allowed 18" tires....and Toyo has a supply problem EVERY year!

with the new BFG out, the Hankooks, Kumho 710's and Hoosier getting better on pricing and longevity, I REALLY see no reason to stick with Toyos if they keep acting like they have us by the balls and treating us poorly compared to two years ago. Heck, tires for AIX could be cheaper than AI!!! :lol:

I will stay optimistic but it looks like change is on the way...will just have to see if it's a good change.

[michaelmosty]

Well, given the R888 is following the pricing structure of the Nitto line and is SUBSTANTIALLY higher priced than the RA1's, there has been some grumbling on the AI National site that TOYO needs to go away as the spec tire. R888's will now be the most expensive DOT tire available in 275/40/17 and that includes Hoosiers. It's an even wider gap in the newly allowed 18" tires....and Toyo has a supply problem EVERY year!

with the new BFG out, the Hankooks, Kumho 710's and Hoosier getting better on pricing and longevity, I REALLY see no reason to stick with Toyos if they keep acting like they have us by the balls and treating us poorly compared to two years ago. Heck, tires for AIX could be cheaper than AI!!! :lol:

I will stay optimistic but it looks like change is on the way...will just have to see if it's a good change.
What are the new prices that you have heard?

[mitchntx]

http://www.racetire.com/products/toyo_r888.htm

This is a pricing structure I found with a quick Google search. Not saying it's THE pricing structure, but it is a data point.

[marshall_mosty]

Based on racetire.com (Full-Depth/Shaved)

Toyo RA1
275/40/17 (198/208)
275/35/18 (302/317)

Toyo R888
275/40/17 (211/221)
275/40/18 (349/364)

Hoosier R6
275/40/17 (271 as molded)
275/35/18 (290 as molded)

Hankook Ventus Z214
275/40/17 (214 as molded)
275/35/18 (239 as molded)

So here's my take. I have "heard" that the R888 respond well in full tread depth so one "might" not have to shave them. So, if you're running 17's the cost doesn't change much.

I do agree with Matt that the 18" bLiNg option is excessive. But I guess it's "big toys for big boys" 8)

[GlennCMC70]

i too have been told shaving is not required for the new R888. we will see soon enough.

[AllZWay]

The odd thing for me is that I have seen this song and dance before in IMCA.

American Racer was the spec tire for years....but prices kept rising and IMCA pretty much told American Racer to get the right price or they would find a new vendor.

American Racer I guess couldn't do it and the switch was made to Hoosiers with the same tread pattern.

In the end.... prices stayed the same, but it just required everyone to buy new tires.

Probably another of those things they will say is better for the racer....but you need to hold tightly to your wallet after they say it. :roll:

[AI#97]

Pricing I got from Vilven in mid december for AI toyos...

RA1
275/40/17's shaved.... $190
275/35/18's shaved.... $292

R888
17's....not yet available and pricing not set...guess was $210 unshaved but don't hold them to it...
18's....$307 shaved

So basically, in 2006 i was buying 275/17 RA1's from vilven for $176 shaved, soon that will be 230ish shaved and the Toyo bucks are the same...

All statements of fact with no garnish. :D


didn't Grand Am just drop Hoosier and go to Pirelli?!

[michaelmosty]

I talked to Vilven and the R888 at full depth is 6/32nds.

[ShadowBolt]

I just purchased six new 16" wheels. Does this mean I will have to buy 17's for 2009? I did not see the 888's in 255/50/16" size.

JJ

[GlennCMC70]

arent the RA1's 8/32nds?
wonder what the weight is of a full R888 vs a shaved RA1?

[AI#97]

arent the RA1's 8/32nds?
wonder what the weight is of a full R888 vs a shaved RA1?

18 R888's are 2 full pounds LIGHTER than the RA'1s...and there is less void on the R888...

My guess is the full R888 will likely equal the shaved RA1 in weight.

[AllZWay]

I talked to Vilven and the R888 at full depth is 6/32nds.

So are the R888's available already?

[mitchntx]

R888s are not available in 16" CMC size ... sometime this quarter.
They aren't legal for CMC or CMC2 till Jan 1, 2009 anyway.

Speculation at this point in time about pricing, Toyo bucks, spec tire manufacturer change is meaningless.

For the next 12 months, it is status quo.

Toyo will provide plenty of tires for the nation to run till June of 2009. And if there is a major catastrophe somewhere that dries up the source of RA1s, I feel confident that NASA won't turn away a racer's entry fee.

[michaelmosty]

I just purchased six new 16" wheels. Does this mean I will have to buy 17's for 2009? I did not see the 888's in 255/50/16" size.

JJ
The 255/50/16 R888's will be available 1st quarter of 2008. Not available yet but soon.

[donovan]

Taking some time away from the video just to say...


WOW! :?




DD

[AI#97]

Taking some time away from the video just to say...


WOW! :?




DD

Wow, you are tired from editing? or Wow, you aren't buying 18's?! :lol:

Seeing the price on the 18" R888's pretty much sealed the deal for NOT going that direction even if I got the wheels for free from MM as part of my winnings from last year. I would like to get my hands on a set of R888's though when the AI spec tire finally gets here to see how they compare to the RA1's... :?:

[AllZWay]

Toyo will provide plenty of tires for the nation to run till June of 2009. And if there is a major catastrophe somewhere that dries up the source of RA1s, I feel confident that NASA won't turn away a racer's entry fee.

Seem that there is already a big problem with RA1's.

Vilven told me they have no RA1's and have not heard anyword from Toyo as to when they will be getting any. :shock:

[donovan]

Toyo will provide plenty of tires for the nation to run till June of 2009. And if there is a major catastrophe somewhere that dries up the source of RA1s, I feel confident that NASA won't turn away a racer's entry fee.

Seem that there is already a big problem with RA1's.

Vilven told me they have no RA1's and have not heard anyword from Toyo as to when they will be getting any. :shock:

Nothing new there, happens twice a year... just get on the waiting list.

[GlennCMC70]

i called Vilvin this morning and got 6 shipped out today. Regional Champ must mean something.

[AllZWay]

i called Vilvin this morning and got 6 shipped out today. Regional Champ must mean something.

That is crappy... I just called this morning. :evil:

[GlennCMC70]

the wife accually called about 8:30 this morning.
sorry.

[donovan]

i called Vilvin this morning and got 6 shipped out today. Regional Champ must mean something.

Yeah, you just got the last batch of the old dry rotted tires...

[GlennCMC70]

Dayum James, David said i was gonna kick your ass w/ old, dry rubber.

[donovan]

now that is funny... sorry JP!

[BlueFirePony]

OK, maybe a bit blasphemous mentioning a BMW company here, but have any of you dealt this company? They are real small but he (the owner, Geoff) says he can get 1-2 heat cycle RA-1s for dirt cheap.

I'm emailing with him now and probably going to order a set for practice unless they turn out to be good quality then I'll order more.

I've spoken with him about a discount for 4+ sets so if you are interested let me know.

http://www.meisterschaftmotor.com/index.html

[GlennCMC70]

what sizes?

[AllZWay]

Dayum James, David said i was gonna kick your ass w/ old, dry rubber.

Bring it.... :D

BTW... I called again today and still no tires and not sure when they are getting any. :shock:

[jeffburch]

Call Phil.
jb

[AllZWay]

Call Phil.
jb
Called and tires are on the way. He said another Texas CMC guy just ordered tires also.

Screw VILVEN. :twisted: :lol:

[BlueFirePony]

Geoff has 17s and 18s ...did not ask about 16s.
For 17s he only has 235/40 listed on his site but he indicated he can get various sizes.
If they are decent condition single or double heat cycled tires, 275/35/18 for $145 a tire...can't beat that. I figure its worth a try.

[AI#97]

Call Phil.
jb
Called and tires are on the way. He said another Texas CMC guy just ordered tires also.

Screw VILVEN. :twisted: :lol:

Only reason Phil has tires is because his prices are too high! ;)

[jeffburch]

whatever

jb

[GlennCMC70]

Phils is alot more than Vilven. my wife priced them both yesterday.
6 tires shaved delivered for $1110.

[ShadowBolt]

I was the "other Texas CMC guy" to order tires. I have not run any races on anything except old crap I got with the car. I will be on four new shaved TOYO's for MSRH. You all better watch out! I know you are all real concerned......LOL.

By the way, what is the price difference in a set from Phill's or Vilven? Phill is a good guy to deal with. I did not know any better. I just went the way the champ told me to go.


JJ

[AllZWay]

I really couldn't remember what I paid at Vilven last time, but I do think it was higher from Phil's, but it is sort of a supply and demand situation right now.

[GlennCMC70]

Phils is alot more than Vilven. my wife priced them both yesterday.
6 tires shaved delivered for $1110.

i want to correct this some.
Phil's wanted $195 per tire plus shaving plus shipping.
Vilven wanted $185 shaved plus shipping.
6 tires shaved and delived was $1215.87 sorry for the above price.

[mitchntx]

Found a pair of 255/50/16s here ...

www.frisbyracetire.com

$198 each plus $15 each to shave them plus shipping.

FYI and another source.