PDA

View Full Version : Phone number for the Mazda dyno shop at MSR-C



marshall_mosty
05-08-2006, 08:57 PM
I'm needing to get a hold of them so I can redyno next week.

Also, was the agreed pricing just on race weekends? Regardless, what prices have we paid for dyno runs with and without A/F??

Thanks.

Todd Covini
05-08-2006, 09:34 PM
We've paid $50 for our pulls without A/F.
That'll always be my target price for 3 successive pulls without tuning for our recertification checks.

Guess we better start negotiating with the folks at MSR Houston!

-=- Todd

mitchntx
05-08-2006, 09:42 PM
They certainly charged Glenn and I more than that ...

Between the 3 cars ... 70, 8 and 9, we spent close to $300 for dyno time ...

We could have gotten it done a LOT cheaper, but the fit people pitch over 5 hp (even though we've been preached to numerous times that 100lbs will make no difference :roll: ) made it seem paramount that we get it dynoed there.

Todd Covini
05-08-2006, 10:11 PM
We could have gotten it done a LOT cheaper, but the fit people pitch over 5 hp (even though we've been preached to numerous times that 100lbs will make no difference :roll: ) made it seem paramount that we get it dynoed there.

You're right. We should change the rule to "around 230/300" for CMC and "somewhere close to 9.5:1" for AI. That should level things up and give people the flexibility they need so we're all happy!

...or not. :twisted:

-=- Todd

mitchntx
05-08-2006, 10:47 PM
We should change the rule

-=- Todd

What the temp in hell?

Todd Covini
05-08-2006, 10:52 PM
We should change the rule

-=- Todd

What the temp in hell?

Tropical.
See you here in a few weeks!!! :shock: :lol:

-=-T

Mike Bell
05-09-2006, 06:13 AM
New dyno at MSRH? Then I think we need to have CMC/AI do some "test" pulls at that location before using them for compliance checks. Given all the variance discussions we've had before about PST vs LG vs Joe's Dyno and Donuts it seems only fair that we get some sort of baseline on a dyno before handing out DQ's.

I got some new plug wires (hopefully ones that stay attached to the plugs this time) so I'm sure I've found more HP..............

mitchntx
05-09-2006, 07:22 AM
In a nutshell, being held to a moving target standard is ludicrous. There is no calibration criterion or operator training standard.

If we all were within 100 miles of a single dyno, then OK ... let's cert to a single standard. But there are too many variables to draw a hard and fast line.

In this group of folks alone, we've noted a 20hp variance between dynos on the same car, same day. No one can race and be competitive with a 10% variance between competitiors.

Even torquing something a critical as a reactor vessel head stud has a tolerence. But it ain't 10%!

And if 100lbs of car weight won't make a difference, then 5 HP certainly won't either.

CMC17
05-09-2006, 07:48 AM
I will have a new dyno re-cert done this weekend. I'd be more than willing to put CMC17 up on the dyno at MSR-H to see what, if any difference there is in the numbers.

David Love AI27
05-09-2006, 07:48 AM
No one can race and be competitive with a 10% variance between competitiors.

Even torquing something a critical as a reactor vessel head stud has a tolerence. But it ain't 10%!

And if 100lbs of car weight won't make a difference, then 5 HP certainly won't either.

Mitch, I love you dude, BUT why not stay 10% below and be safe... There is a reason why threre are safety fences around construction sites and that is because many people don't heed warnings and limits and go where the shouldn't go. However, I do believe that an official dyno should be chosen by the directors in the event of "legality issues" and then if you are worried about "being too close", you can be sure to have yours checked at the particular dyno... then you can hold the owner/operator of the dyno resposible.... Wait I have a better idea... run AIX!!!

CMC17
05-09-2006, 07:55 AM
No one can race and be competitive with a 10% variance between competitiors.

Even torquing something a critical as a reactor vessel head stud has a tolerence. But it ain't 10%!

And if 100lbs of car weight won't make a difference, then 5 HP certainly won't either.

Mitch, I love you dude, BUT why not stay 10% below and be safe... There is a reason why threre are safety fences around construction sites and that is because many people don't heed warnings and limits and go where the shouldn't go. However, I do believe that an official dyno should be chosen by the directors in the event of "legality issues" and then if you are worried about "being too close", you can be sure to have yours checked at the particular dyno... then you can hold the owner/operator of the dyno resposible.... Wait I have a better idea... run AIX!!!


Ah..yes.. restrictor plates do have their drawbacks. LOL Problem easily solved. Get a Mustang! This way you will be trying to find every last hp/tq there is and still not even come close. Yes, we look up to the TQ/HP mountain while you 350 guys look down.

Momentum driving (secret to going really fast). LOL

CMC17
05-09-2006, 08:05 AM
No one can race and be competitive with a 10% variance between competitiors.


:?: :?: :?:

I can - have - will continue to be competitive at the lower end of the power scale (probably more than 10%).

:P :P :P :P :P

:lol:

Mike Bell
05-09-2006, 08:22 AM
Why not just make the MSRH and MSRC dyno's the "official" dyno's for compliance checks. Negotiate a decent rate for pulls and we can use them. All I'm saying is let's check the new dyno first before sticking someone on it with a DQ hanging over their head. :o

I don't see where the competitors have to play if safe by avoiding the upper limit by 10% - the limit is 230/300 for CMC and if we can find two dependable dyno's at these locations (that cover 5 of 7 events for 2006 BTW) we can tune to those numbers right? :)

Seems like we are getting closer to the goal of having "official" dyno locations, I think that is progress. My apologies in advance to those outside the DFW and Houston Metro areas, I know this doesn't give you much assistance. :shock:

AI#97
05-09-2006, 09:16 AM
Just as a note....the cresson dyno a/f setup is WAY f'd up.....reads extremely lean so I would not base any tuning on that dyno yet..

JG went to dyno at HPP where I had my car tuned and the a/f was dead on what it should have been with no changes in tuning from the Cresson dyno which was reading nearly 16:1.....I think his programming was set at 13:1 or thereabouts and that is what it ready at HPP.

Marshall, if you are looking to tune on the car, Call Manny or Ozzie up at HPP in lewisville. 972-395-9844. Tell them Matt White sent you and you just need some dyno pulls, no tuning. They usually show up around 10 am and stay late each night....just be sure you can work around their FFW schedules...they leave on Thursdays to go all over the US to race. They sometimes leave someone behind to run things, James can help too.

As far as accuracy across multiple dynos....Mine dyno'd with in 1 rwhp between HPP and LG's on MUCH different conditions for weather. One a great dry/cool day, the other a muggy rainy day. Mine has consistantly made pulls within 2-3 hp regardless of temp. If we need a baseline, I offer up mine for Houston. I think Todd probably has a good idea on his car as well....

CMC17
05-09-2006, 09:16 AM
Car A dynos at Place A
Car A then dynos at Place B and finds they are low by 20hp/tq
Car A decides to go to Place C and dynos at Place A hp/tq numbers
Cars B, C, D all tuned to Place B
Cars B, C, D all dyno 20hp/tq above at Place A

Car A could up the hp/tq when the events are scheduled for Place B and then lower hp/tq when at Place A and still be legal/within limits.

TWS and Hallet - no dyno so cars B, C, D will be ok by going with more hp/tq since their dyno is the one that reads low and would be found in compliance. Car A is out of luck.


I'd rather be well under the limit at the highest reading dyno and out drive my competitors.

Mike Bell
05-09-2006, 09:33 AM
Directors Clouseau and Gadget work with MSRH vendor Frank James to get his dyno "official" Then they work with MSRC vendor Jessie James to get his dyno "official".

Then everyone can depend on numbers from Dyno A or B.

mitchntx
05-09-2006, 09:34 AM
Mitch, I love you dude, BUT why not stay 10% below and be safe...

10% low on which dyno? The old one at Kwik Kar or LGs? There was a 10% spread between the 2 ... and according to Dynojet, a 1% variance between runs is an acceptable tolernece. So that is 1/5 of your "10% low theory".

You guys miss the point ...

The hard and fast 230 hp figure is an unmeasureable moving target based upon too many variables.

The catch fences around a race track are anchored and we know EXACTLY where they will be each and every lap. Humidity, temperature, the fence operator do not affect their placement nor their ability to keep my mass on the track or close to it.

I run CMC because a big checkbook does not equate to being competitive ... not that I am very competitive in CMC. But I don't have to spend a bazillion bucks to make an attempt.

mitchntx
05-09-2006, 09:39 AM
One other thing that needs to be realized is that a restrictor plate does really funny things to a dyno curve.

And an LT1s dyno curve is scrutinized heavily all through the power band, not just the peak numbers.

If the peak numbers move off of a known baseline, then eyebrows are raised.

CMC17
05-09-2006, 11:15 AM
30mm
Be safe and not risk it
30mm
Less attention
30mm
Momentum driving
30mm
The South side of the tracks isn't so bad
30mm

mitchntx
05-09-2006, 01:35 PM
Check

Understand

Aye, aye

Gotcha

How would you know?

:P

chicane23
05-10-2006, 10:00 AM
If there is indeed a dyno at MSR-H I will be dynoing the new car before any qualifying or race. This will insure that I am legal and compliant for AI in Houston. This will also allow all the race to know I’m legal and not cheating!

If anyone has the phone # please let me know so I can schedule the time.

BTW, the dyno at MSR-C is really, really screwed up!

I verified that the A/F on my car was correct after the MSR-C dyno showed the car to be extremely lean 15.8:1. After reviewing the FAST data logging the A/F was at 13.5:1 for that weekend and cost me 3 races. Hey that is life and I have learned from it. ;-)

I will forever question that dyno!

It doesn’t matter if you have a certified dyno or not, the dyno at the track or where ever if called out is the dyno that you have to be compliant to.

I would like to ask the question if some one is DQ’d, could we have two other cars on the dyno to make sure it’s not a dyno issue?

jeffburch
05-10-2006, 10:17 AM
If there is indeed a dyno at MSR-H I will be dynoing the new car before any qualifying or race. This will insure that I am legal and compliant for AI in Houston. This will also allow all the race to know I’m legal and not cheating!

If anyone has the phone # please let me know so I can schedule the time.

BTW, the dyno at MSR-C is really, really screwed up!

I verified that the A/F on my car was correct after the MSR-C dyno showed the car to be extremely lean 15.8:1. After reviewing the FAST data logging the A/F was at 13.5:1 for that weekend and cost me 3 races. Hey that is life and I have learned from it. ;-)

I will forever question that dyno!

It doesn’t matter if you have a certified dyno or not, the dyno at the track or where ever if called out is the dyno that you have to be compliant to.

I would like to ask the question if some one is DQ’d, could we have two other cars on the dyno to make sure it’s not a dyno issue?

I've discussed this before. If DQ'd then another name comes out of the helmet.

DQ'd person has to pay for it.

jb

marshall_mosty
05-10-2006, 11:17 AM
John,
If you get the number for the MSR-H dyno, please share. I will need to dyno on Friday as well.

CMC17
05-10-2006, 11:30 AM
Count me in for the number also. I'd like to dyno Friday afternoon.

mitchntx
05-10-2006, 12:59 PM
Simple, really ...

If my name is picked, I'm just packing up and going home.

It's absolutely goofy to go to this extent and degree of scrutiny for a club race. We're "supposed" to be mature adults out to have fun. But this guilty till proven innocent BS is wearing a tick thin.

What's even more ludicrous is that the measuring device used is as variable as a weather forecast.

Last year when I was picked to "verify" my numbers after the last race of the season, I found it kind of humiliating in a way. What did I do that deserved that level of scrutiny? Win a race?

Go to Mylaps.com and look at the lap times posted during that race ... I was lucky to be running mid-pack times. The hot Schus were slicing through the field like butter. NASA just was running long and the race was shortened. Did the "right guy" get picked to verify?

At this level, if someone's ego requires them to cheat to win a $2 piece of pewter and see their name posted on the internet, they will find a way to do it regardless.

At my age, I really don't have anything to prove except to myself. So, it's a moot point, as far as I'm concerned. If you have to live a lie to feed your ego, then there are deeper issues that need to be addressed.

When I decided to go racing, I read the rules and built my car within the rules handed me. Nothing has changed and there won't be any changes. I can live with an annual dyno cert, as outlined in the rules. But the name calling and finger pointing is such a Jr. High thing.

All this "keeping us honest" and "for my own protection" BS is a sad state of affairs for this group IMHO. We should already "be honest" and no one needs protection from me and I don't feel as though I need protection from you.

So, I've drawn a line ...

Simple, really ...

chicane23
05-10-2006, 01:41 PM
You have good points in your message, but not all people have the respect and honesty that you have Sir. I have learned a lot this year and that is one of the lessons learned.

There are people out there that have always been a back marker for some reason or another and now they might feel that adding a little more power (above the legal limit) will bring them to the same driving level as you or anyone else.

Some have more at stake and want to prove themselves to someone (sponsor).

Someone (the winner) will always be picked on and there will always be finger pointing as the level of competition grows.

We all just need to understand that there will always be someone faster, it’s just not about power all the time.
There are a ton of factors in road racing and yes power is one, but I rate it very low.
Driver experience, equipment, and car setup are much more important.

mitchntx
05-10-2006, 01:58 PM
We all just need to understand that there will always be someone faster, it’s just not about power all the time.
There are a ton of factors in road racing and yes power is one, but I rate it very low.
Driver experience, equipment, and car setup are much more important.

thank you, Thank You, THANK YOU, Mr. George. EXACTLY and WELL PUT.

None of those things ... NONE ... are dyno measured.

Those things have been shoved down my throat since day 1, yet the ONLY measure taken is one that has to most variation.

As more money begins to enter this series, the more crap will be heaped upon us, the racers. All the while, dyno operators, body shops and the sanctioning body pad their wallets with our hard earned dollars.

Mike Bell
05-10-2006, 02:16 PM
Look, we are racing with NASA. CMC has HP and WT limits, AI has HP to WT and TQ to WT limitations. Period. This is better than engine teardowns, checking for displacement and a dozen or so additional checks that the other sanctioning body does to maintain a level playing field.

Oh yeah, it is a level playing field. Just look at how much fun the last event was (I though it was fun) with the GMs and Fords racing hard but clean in CMC. Hell, Mitch, you looked like a Schumi clone in R1 at MSRC! Do I think anyone cheated? Nope, not for a minute. I got whupped but good and had fun doing it. 8)

Random dyno checks? I've been raising hell against them since we started the concept. Big pain in the butt and wallet IMHO. I've been "sealed" at the track for finishing in the top 3 (yeah, back in the day I actually had a podium). Haul my crap down to a dyno just to prove what I already knew. Then I got to shell out $50 for the priviledge. Back when I was bitching about "why do we need them" it got real ugly, but in the end it seemed that the group felt it was needed and elected to spend half of our contributed funds to the effort. Done deal, I shut up about it and we move on. I'm surprised to hear you say you'll pack up and leave Mitch, I thought we had all swallowed that pain a few months back? :)

But dyno certs are the topic here, that and dynos. I respectfully suggest we let our fearless leaders get a handle on which dynos suck and which are acceptable for "compliance" checks and just use those.

Does that pick on anyone unfairly?

mitchntx
05-10-2006, 02:47 PM
Mike, I have told anyone who would listen that the most fun I've EVER had on track was racing for 7th last year at Hallett against lewis and the guys from Tyler whom I can't recall the names.

The past race was a lot of fun and I saw you back there till I moved my mirror so that I could no longer see you.

To drive home John's point about driver and setup, look at my lap times on Saturday and Sunday ... the handling on my car went away in a big way. I never changed motors, restrictor plates, NOS jets, nothing ...

I was on the fence about random dyno checks.

But after the hoops I went through to get my car certified on the same freaking dyno (just 2 different locations) and coming up with numbers on the opposite end of the spectrum, it affirmed to me that it was smoke and mirrors and a huge waste of energy, time and cashola.

Like I said earlier, the rules state the there are certain HP/TQ/Weight limitations and that we gotta certify annually.

It's all the subsequent fluff, flexing and smoke blowing in the name of fairness and protection that seems useless and infintile.

Trust me ... if I think you're cheating, I'll come talk to you face to face about it. Otherwise, congrats on a race well ran. I refuse to hide behind the premise of protection and policing.

I sleep at night just fine ....

Mike Bell
05-10-2006, 03:05 PM
Well, let them pick me then. I can spend your hard earned $10 on a pull and if I'm over we can have a good laugh at the dyno operator and my DQ, deal?

CMC17
05-10-2006, 03:13 PM
Welcome to my world of "the looking glass". I've had all kinds of PM's with finger pointing towards cheating. Put up some money and lets do it or pipe down has always been my response. lol

Yep, HP/TQ isn't everything. I busted out laughing so hard I nearly fell down at the last event when I heard my name was pulled out of the hat. It was amusing, well at least to me it was.

It was also fun to point fingers at those that showed up to witness the pulls and when the numbers were anounced I pointed to all the competitors and see what you are getting beat with... SEE! It was funny then and I didn't mean any harm. :D LOL 219hp/266tq

When you win, you are subject to the microscope from all angles and 24/7. Had CMC17 not won at all, no one would bat an eye lash and life would be better than it has been over the past two years. It's part of racing in a competitive environment and I have gotten used to it (maybe too much).

Maybe the dyno at MSR-H will ready 34 tq too high. What would you guys do without all that power? KIDDING!!!

cjlmlml
05-10-2006, 03:30 PM
MSRC Dyno Shannon Mcmasters 817 396 4831

chicane23
05-10-2006, 03:32 PM
You should use it Chris!!!!!! ;-)

michaelmosty
05-10-2006, 04:24 PM
The past race was a lot of fun and I saw you back there till I moved my mirror so that I could no longer see you.

Haha, sounds like the EV mirror story. :lol:
I guess you know you are doing a good job of pestering when you see Mitch move the mirror down. :P

Mike Bell
05-10-2006, 04:27 PM
Let me put it this way, I was never close enough to see Mitch in the car lol.

He's being kind.

Now I won't get to pick on him next event, hopefully his wife will recover quickly and he'll find a way to make MSRH?

jeffburch
05-10-2006, 04:48 PM
Let me put it this way, I was never close enough to see Mitch in the car lol.

He's being kind.

Now I won't get to pick on him next event, hopefully his wife will recover quickly and he'll find a way to make MSRH?

I've always felt we all should cert on ONE dyno. The variances are a joke, at best.

Can we get the moderator to word filter "dyno" to something like "gathering wild flowers in a meadow" or similar?

jb

AI#97
05-10-2006, 04:50 PM
Period. This is better than engine teardowns, checking for displacement and a dozen or so additional checks that the other sanctioning body does to maintain a level playing field.



that is one of the reasons I am here....given my choice to run a mod motor, a tear down to a shortblock costs me close to $350 in gaskets and head bolts so a $40 dyno is peanuts!!!

cjlmlml
05-11-2006, 08:59 AM
thanks John, I already have

j3ffbrooks
05-11-2006, 09:20 AM
JG,

Didn't Adam already show you Chris's dyno sheet?

You think that he's cheating because he out drove Armstrong?

That's funny.

chicane23
05-11-2006, 10:25 AM
JB,

No, never asked to see it, should I when we go to Houston?

Chris cheating?? Why would you even mention Chris was cheating? The new dyno at MSR-H might come in handy.

I now know who ACE and Gary is! ;-)

cjlmlml
05-11-2006, 01:36 PM
Well , John , why do you suggest that I use the dyno?

I dont understand that comment.

chicane23
05-11-2006, 01:48 PM
Chris,

I was just looking at the race write-up and it shows the following.

Dyno Decals as recorded after Round 3:
American Iron:
Driver Name: RWHP RWTQ Min Weight
David Donovan 295 315 2835
Marshall Mosty 258 288 2800
Matt White 316 341 3069
David Love 292 310 2800
John George 329 354 3168
Pedersen/Marvel 312 314 2964
Jeff Brooks 319 317 3031
Chris Lyons TBD TBD TBD
Tracey Alvey TBD TBD TBD

Not to mention that your car was at Grapevine Auto getting some carb work done the week before the last race.

That's all, are you ok?

j3ffbrooks
05-11-2006, 02:27 PM
No, never asked to see it, should I when we go to Houston?

Maybe you should ask to see it if you are questioning the legality of Chris' car.



Chris cheating?? Why would you even mention Chris was cheating?

Why would I mention it? Because of this posting....





Wow, I seen a few individuals found some power for this event.

I've never seen a car pull on people like it did this past weekend and you know who you are!

A good example would be David Armstrong's car.
That car had 329 rwhp and 354 rwtq and weighed 3168 at the last race. Now the car has lost the blast that I had in it of almost 55 lbs and now running Carbon Fiber fenders, doors and hood. This all adds up to more than 75 + lbs alone. The doors alone save over 30 lbs each, not to mention the lighter wheels and tires.

I seen a car pull him on the straight like nothing before, no it was not Matt W. I believe his numbers are one target as he was running with me and this weekend David would pull him pretty good in the straights.





Not to mention that your car was at Grapevine Auto getting some carb work done the week before the last race.


How do you know he was getting his carb worked on? They must only work on Carbs at Grapevine Auto. I don't know because I've never been there.

I just think its ironic that you would question Chris' car because almost everyone in AI questions your car. Chris picks it up all of a sudden and you're all over him. Maybe its not the car. Maybe its the driver? If you really want to know you should protest Chris. I've thought about it myself.




Okay, all done.

chicane23
05-11-2006, 03:32 PM
Ok Ace or is it Gary,
You were the one that was talking about cheating!

JG,
Didn't Adam already show you Chris's dyno sheet?
You think that he's cheating because he out drove Armstrong?
That's funny.



Wow, I seen a few individuals found some power for this event.

I've never seen a car pull on people like it did this past weekend and you know who you are!

A good example would be David Armstrong's car.
That car had 329 rwhp and 354 rwtq and weighed 3168 at the last race. Now the car has lost the blast that I had in it of almost 55 lbs and now running Carbon Fiber fenders, doors and hood. This all adds up to more than 75 + lbs alone. The doors alone save over 30 lbs each, not to mention the lighter wheels and tires.

I seen a car pull him on the straight like nothing before, no it was not Matt W. I believe his numbers are one target as he was running with me and this weekend David would pull him pretty good in the straights.


Why does the above statement have anything to do with Chris?




How do you know he was getting his carb worked on? They must only work on Carbs at Grapevine Auto. I don't know because I've never been there.

Jeff, I know all!
Are you denying the carb. work?



I just think its ironic that you would question Chris' car because almost everyone in AI questions your car. Chris picks it up all of a sudden and you're all over him. Maybe its not the car. Maybe its the driver? If you really want to know you should protest Chris. I've thought about it myself.


I told you at the 2nd event at MSR-H if you didn’t believe that David’s car was legal you could protest it or just pay for the dyno. I didn’t mind.
If you ever thought my blue car or David’s car was not legal for AI, you are really not going to like my new car! ;-)

j3ffbrooks
05-11-2006, 04:43 PM
Ok Ace or is it Gary,
You were the one that was talking about cheating!

JG,
Didn't Adam already show you Chris's dyno sheet?
You think that he's cheating because he out drove Armstrong?
That's funny.

You're right. I AM the one TALKING about cheating. You're just insinuating cheating without actually saying it.




Wow, I seen a few individuals found some power for this event.

I've never seen a car pull on people like it did this past weekend and you know who you are!

A good example would be David Armstrong's car.
That car had 329 rwhp and 354 rwtq and weighed 3168 at the last race. Now the car has lost the blast that I had in it of almost 55 lbs and now running Carbon Fiber fenders, doors and hood. This all adds up to more than 75 + lbs alone. The doors alone save over 30 lbs each, not to mention the lighter wheels and tires.

I seen a car pull him on the straight like nothing before, no it was not Matt W. I believe his numbers are one target as he was running with me and this weekend David would pull him pretty good in the straights.


Why does the above statement have anything to do with Chris?


Oh, sorry. Who were you talking about then? From my gathered information I assumed this was in respect to Chris.

My appologies.




How do you know he was getting his carb worked on? They must only work on Carbs at Grapevine Auto. I don't know because I've never been there.

Jeff, I know all!
Are you denying the carb. work?

I can't deny it because I don't know. I'll ask Chris. Doesn't really matter if I do or don't deny the carb work because you never said he was cheating.





I just think its ironic that you would question Chris' car because almost everyone in AI questions your car. Chris picks it up all of a sudden and you're all over him. Maybe its not the car. Maybe its the driver? If you really want to know you should protest Chris. I've thought about it myself.


I told you at the 2nd event at MSR-H if you didn’t believe that David’s car was legal you could protest it or just pay for the dyno. I didn’t mind.
If you ever thought my blue car or David’s car was not legal for AI, you are really not going to like my new car! ;-)

I was only scepticle about you running Armstrong's car because it was AIX before and you were basically jumping into it and driving well.

I don't feel like I am at a place where I can justify protesting you. I know you are better driver than me and could take at least 3 seconds off my own times in my own car.

Just trying to get things out in the open. When I was curious about your car I came and talked to you about it. If you have any questions about someone else you should do the same.

BTW
Not to be a dick....but I hope you don't get your car sorted out for the next race. I might be taking 5th place from you. HaHa.

donovan
05-11-2006, 05:28 PM
I might be taking 5th place from you. HaHa.

You will have to fight me for it...

AI#97
05-11-2006, 06:02 PM
Well, I do have to offer up that Chris' car is not totally "legal"....he needs a nasa sticker and a toyo sticker on the nose! Just noticed from the MM podium picture. :D


also, I am glad to see both Chris and David D stepping it up. It just forces me to find MORE to stay out in front. :wink:

I too wanted to protest john while he was driving David A's car but honestly didn't see a valid reason to AND didn't want to be the whiny ass rookie stirring shit up......well, that backfired but not on this subject! :oops: Anyway, I have always been a proponent of run what you brung but do it within a reasonable "interpretation" of the rules that doesn't deviate from the overall INTENT of the rules.

Anyway, let's all play nice and see you guys at the track next friday! Bring the A game boys....it's time to get it on! 8)

chicane23
05-11-2006, 06:24 PM
You're right. I AM the one TALKING about cheating. You're just insinuating cheating without actually saying it.

I never insinuated anyone was cheating! I just asked about the dyno sheet since there was not one on the last two race write-ups…that’s it.
But, now that I have looked into things more carefully…a bird was talking about the carb. work that was done before the last race. ;-) but again, Chris needs a bunch of power to be legal.



I was only scepticle about you running Armstrong's car because it was AIX before and you were basically jumping into it and driving well.


Actually, for David’s car we added over 60 lbs of Ballast and added shorty headers, 2.5 inch exhaust, added fuel and retarded the hell out of the motor and YES I had a dyno sheet for it.
David doesn’t have a monster motor in the car yet either. That monster motor is still as the machine shop. ;-)

I actually called Chris to ask him about his car and carb. tuning, just to see how it went. Ask your Ambiguously Gay Duo if he got a v-mail from me and didn’t return it.

BTW, I only watched one race and that was the race that RP got black flagged.
I didn’t really pay attention to Chris’s car.



Just trying to get things out in the open. When I was curious about your car I came and talked to you about it. If you have any questions about someone else you should do the same.


I know you are just protecting Gary.
If I had an issue with you or anyone else, trust me I will ask you face to face! I’m not scared or ashamed to ask anything, but to be honest I really don’t care!
Like I said earlier road racing is all about experience, equipment and car setup. HP is the last thing to worry about.



BTW
Not to be a dick....but I hope you don't get your car sorted out for the next race. I might be taking 5th place from you. HaHa.


Humm…I will let you know how it runs tomorrow! ;-)

Todd Covini
05-11-2006, 09:23 PM
Ahhhh....and so you all now see why random dynos are a good thing.

Mandatory dynos for all is a major PITA.
No dynos at all is a major wide open barn door.

This concludes Lesson #238. We'll see you in class in less than 2 weeks!!!

8)

-=- Todd

mitchntx
05-11-2006, 11:15 PM
No dynos at all is a major wide open barn door.



So you think cheating would be rampant with out random checks?

http://www.tsanders.com/ath/graphics/bullshit.jpg

CMC17
05-12-2006, 07:46 AM
No dynos at all is a major wide open barn door.



So you think cheating would be rampant with out random checks?



I would hope not. Over the past two years I have been accused countless times of cheating. Time and time again nothing has ever been substantiated and CMC17 is what it is... nothing special and low budget. I stay within the rules because anything else would be stupid and if someone was to cheat and win, then shame on them for such a hollow victory.

I also felt like I was being accused because just maybe the person pointing the finger might have something up their sleeve and there is no way that anyone could possibly beat them without cheating also. (yeah.. I don't sleep well at night.. lol)

The finger pointing doesn't bother me anymore. It's lonely at the top and everyone wants a piece of you. (queue the violins) What I won't stand for is a cheater that thinks they are out-driving the competition with skill, so I welcome the spot checks and wish we had more random checks throughout the weekend. Honesty and integrity goes towards character and I don't think it's a knock against either one if cmc17 gets pulled for a spot check. It only shows that the series is willing to try and keep a level playing field possibly warding off someone with questionable intent.

Be glad there isn't a tear-down rule in CMC. A pain in the arse spot check is by far my choice.

Nothing up my sleeve except the desire to win with a mediocre car.

.02

cjlmlml
05-12-2006, 09:36 AM
Some general comments for all

( Ignore them, get mad, whatever, I dont care)


If I had changed anything to the engine from the previous race, I would have re dynoed.

The carb was not worked on at all between races. Your little bird is wrong and has been wrong before.

(Thats how this stuff starts, rumors, then the telephone game gets going, before long- It turns out Jack Roush was in town tuning my car etc etc)

Adam did not feel the need to include my dyno numbers in the race report. (Not my issue)

Yes, there were non-motor things I changed, I am not required to say what they are.

I feel like I am dealing with my 12 & 14 year olds.

General rules for life:

1. Be accountable
2. If you have something to say, go to the person direct.
3. Treat others as you want to be treated

Very Simple.

marshall_mosty
05-12-2006, 12:01 PM
I just want to be out front with everyone regarding the upcoming event... 8 days away!!! I have performed the following work on AI #67 and will dyno either before or during the event. I wouldn't mind if I was the random spot check either.

List of changes from 02/06 thru 05/06.

1. New (used) set of aluminum heads (GT-40 Y302's)
2. New (used) set of 24 lb fuel injectors
3. Timing is the same as my annual (14-degrees)
4. Fuel pressure is the same (it's on my dyno sheet)
5. Remove my exhuast to install the T/A, but the old system was reinstalled
6. Had my fiberglass hood painted to reduce coefficient of friction
7. Reinstalled my "Toyo" decal on the hood so I'm compliant in that respect.
8. New (used) Griggs SD T/A which facilitated the removal of the upper rear C/A's
9. New (new) T/A cover on the diff
10. Changed the diff fluid to AmsOil synthetic
11. Cambered the rear
12. Installed new front driver's brake rotor
13. Went to Carbotech XP11 front pads
14. Bled the brakes with Valvoline Syntech DOT 4 fluid
15. Changed the engine oil with the same weight AmsOil 20W/50
16. New (new) Koni SA rear shocks
17. New (used) set of H&R T/A springs (Thanks MW... the rookie)
18. New (new) fuel pump.... don't get me started.
19. Washed the car

See you guys in a week.

cjlmlml
05-12-2006, 01:13 PM
Did you wash the car with NASA approved detegent?

AI#97
05-12-2006, 01:39 PM
Update on AI#97.....so there are no questions...

checked the oil level, rotated tires, vacuumed dirt out from March event....do I need to redyno?! :lol:




j/k, I did repaint the hood after my duct tape peeled it off but honestly, the car was 100% good to go even after doing a nut/bolt check. Now I just need to find my torque wrench before practice so I can torque the lugs!!!!!! :idea:

mitchntx
05-12-2006, 02:17 PM
Over the past two years I have been accused countless times of cheating. Time and time again nothing has ever been substantiated and CMC17 is what it is... nothing special and low budget.

Nothing up my sleeve except the desire to win with a mediocre car.

.02

In those 2 years were there random dyno verifications? No.

Now that there are, have accusations of "cheating" stopped? No.

Eric, I nicknamed you SchuVarner for a reason ... I have a lot of respect for you ... both on and off the track.

You conduct yourself with integrity. I recognize and appreciate that.

The whole point is that there are 2 measuring sticks with which we are judged ... dyno and scales.

It is recognized that there are some deviations and variations between scale sets and the CCR addresses it.

However, the variations between dynos isn't. And percentage-wise, it has the largest affect and the hardest to correct.

marshall_mosty
05-12-2006, 03:10 PM
Chris,
I couldn't find anything in the CCR's regarding that, so hopefully the acid bath... er I mean dish soap is approved.

Adam Ginsberg
05-12-2006, 04:10 PM
Wow - go away for a week, and the damn world comes to an end.

In my typical "it is what it is" delivery style:

1. Random dyno checks will continue to be the methodology used to make sure ALL cars are within spec. It's the mainstay of both series ( AI and CMC ), and isn't going to change. Please be prepared accordingly.

2. The omission of Chris Lyons' dyno numbers was an oversight, no more, no less, and the mistake was mine. I made it a point to ask Chris for his dyno sheet on Saturday, and he produced it. When he did, his windshield, and logbook were signed and dated.

3. Stop getting so twisted up before all the facts are known.

marshall_mosty
05-17-2006, 12:27 PM
Since MSR-H does not have a dyno, I'm going to re-dyno tomorrow at MSR-C. I just spoke with the MSR-C shop and they did verify that they are still having problems with their A/F meter, so I'll just run whatever my fuel pressure gives (I need to pull out my Smokey Yunick spark plug reading chart!!).

It looks like no random "at the track" checks for the rest of the year.

Bring on the hood sealin'! (Although that is a major PITA for everyone involved...)

Adam Ginsberg
05-17-2006, 12:46 PM
It looks like no random "at the track" checks for the rest of the year.

Never say never.....it could still happen.

AI#97
05-17-2006, 01:06 PM
It looks like no random "at the track" checks for the rest of the year.

Never say never.....it could still happen.

Actually he DIDN'T say never.....????


<----Realizes that he just went to the top of the list for a sealed hood... :lol: