3rd Gen Master Kill Switch Problems

[NickV]

I have this switch:
http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=1464
Wiring diagram:
http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/Images/L/4430-inst.jpg

I have it wired as shown. The heavy gauge (factory) pink wire (ignition switch to ignition coil) under the dash is the wire that is "broken" by the Z terminals.

The good: The switch "works". It kills the car completely and instantly. No funny noises or such.

Problem:
Turn key, flip master switch, fire up car. Car starts fine. Flip master switch to "kill", car dies. Restart the car, car idles incredibly rough and dies on it's own. Second restart, car fires up normally and runs normally, no problems.

Repeat the process. Car running, flip kill switch, car dies. Restart car, horrible idle, car dies on it's own. Second restart, car fires up normal, no problem.

Help? :?

Fuel pump turns on every time. Otherwise no other funny noises or symptoms that I can see/hear?

[Fbody383]

Flip master switch to "kill", car dies. Restart the car, car idles incredibly rough and dies on it's own. Second restart, car fires up normally and runs normally, no problems.

Is the fuel pump running the entire time or is it "behind" the cutoff? Is the car just flooded?

FWIW, the first switch I put in never saw a start, it failed mechanically after about a dozen cycles. Does the switch still feel mechanically sound?

[NickV]

Fuel pump turns on/off with the switch. Everything dies with the switch.

The switch is brand new. This is the first time it's ever been installed. It's got no issues as far as mechanical "feel"?

[GlennCMC70]

when the switch is flipped does it kill all power to everything? i have my car set-up to keep the memory on the PCM hot at all times, even when the master is turned off. it could be doing a form of re-learn.

[NickV]

It kills all power, so yeah, the PCM relearn is a possibility. That's a good idea with the PCM hot thing. I'll have to look in to that.

[Al Fernandez]

Just from one competitor to another...might want to re-read the your governing rules. Kill switch is supposed to kill everything, it is a safety measure.

[AI#97]

Just from one competitor to another...might want to re-read the your governing rules. Kill switch is supposed to kill everything, it is a safety measure.

and if you have an electronic fire system...kill that too huh?! :roll: The intent is to kill ignition, fuel pump and fan to prevent fires or to not fuel them. If you are saving memory on an EPROM, I SERIOUSLY doubt anyone would ding you in tech unless they just wanted to be a hardass...I don't even think Adam would give you a hard time on that?

[GlennCMC70]

Just from one competitor to another...might want to re-read the your governing rules. Kill switch is supposed to kill everything, it is a safety measure.

and if you have an electronic fire system...kill that too huh?! :roll: The intent is to kill ignition, fuel pump and fan to prevent fires or to not fuel them. If you are saving memory on an EPROM, I SERIOUSLY doubt anyone would ding you in tech unless they just wanted to be a hardass...I don't even think Adam would give you a hard time on that?

read the CCR Matt.
the official stance of mine and Al's is what the CCR says.

[Fbody383]

Nick, sorry for butting in.


i have my car set-up to keep the memory on the PCM hot at all times, even when the master is turned off. it could be doing a form of re-learn.


15.8 Master Switch - An electrical master switch is recommended on all cars, and required onsome, as listed in the class rules. It shall be mounted so that it is easily accessible from the outside. If mounted outside the cockpit, it should be mounted in an area where it is least likely to be damage (e.g. cowling near wipers). The switch shall cut all power except to the onboard fire system and any other life support / medical device. The switch location must be clearly marked. Any marked switch must function as per this rule, or the indication decal must be removed.


the official stance of mine and Al's is what the CCR says.

Now I'm confused. Is it ok to wire the PCM constant power feed around the master disconnect switch?

I currently have the master dicsonnetct switch mounted behind the shifter on the transmission tunnel - do I need to move it?

[NickV]

I currently have the master dicsonnetct switch mounted behind the shifter on the transmission tunnel - do I need to move it?

I've heard a lot of suggestions on where to mount it, but it always comes down to a) can you, the driver of the car, reach it while strapped in and b) can a corner-worker reach it from either side of the car.

[AI#97]

read the CCR Matt.
the official stance of mine and Al's is what the CCR says.

I guess I am confused as it appeared he was telling you that you were wrong? Am I missing something? I did get a C in Reading Comprehension but that was because I never went to class, not that I couldn't read well...?

Secondly, I would love for someone in tech to check for ANYTHING being powered once the car shut off!!! :lol: We all know good and well it isn't checked and by Al's theory, I guess I would need a separate battery for an electronically actuated fire system. Now THERE is a creative way to add ballast!!! :lol: Not that a lot of guys run electronic fire systems...

And for the record, my Master switch kills everything because it's too much of a pain in the ass to wire in the PCM memory ONLY... it would be nice, but it is easier to just reset the car for each dyno run so the "learned" numbers remain consistant.

[GlennCMC70]

Matt, you need to take a class in wiring 101. no need for two batterys in order to keep electronic fire systems active w/ the switch off.

i telling you that the OFFICIAL way to do this is how the CCR says to do it. i also told you how i did mine. the PCM Bat circuit is the only one hot w/ the switch off. play at your own risk.

i also know of cars that only die when the switch is turned is is due to it killing the fuel pump only. it passes the "throw the switch" test, but not the written rule.

[David Love AI27]

I have two kill switches, one next to my shifter and one on passenger side at the window... kinda hard to have a single switch accessible from BOTH sides of the car... when I bought the car my switch only killed the fuel pump and battery but the car still ran because the ignition was still hot from the alternator and since it has a carb it would run on the fuel still in the bowls... rewired it to kill alt and batt...

[GlennCMC70]

just for reference reasons - if you take the output of the alt and wire it to the battery side of the kill switch, the car will die when its switched off.
simple.
if you have the alt output wired to any other place, the car can and likely will keep running.

[Adam Ginsberg]

Glenn is spot on regarding this. It's the exact problem I had with my CMC car when I brought it home from NH in 2003 - it wouldn't die when the MS was thrown.

To properly fix the issue, I used a relay, controlled by the master switch, to kill the alt.

[donovan]

just for reference reasons - if you take the output of the alt and wire it to the battery side of the kill switch, the car will die when its switched off.
simple.
if you have the alt output wired to any other place, the car can and likely will keep running.

That is how I wired mine, very simple and works everytime I cut the switch. :)

DD

[GlennCMC70]

being an electron chaser has its advantages.