Ford ignition feedback please

[Al Fernandez]

Guys, I need some feedback re the reliability of Ford ignition components in the CMC world. All of you CMC Ford guys are out there with bone stock distributors, ignition models, coils, etc...so...how long do these components las? What fails more? What have you spent on ignition parts in the last X years?

Please exclude wires and plugs.

Thanks

[evarner]

On a Fox ignition setup, the weak link is the TFI module. If there's anything that I suspect more, it has to be this module that is attached to the side of the distributor. On the 94-95 models, they moved the ignition module off the distributor and put it on the fenderwell. Heat.. or lack of cooling killed it, especially the cheap non-Motorcraft ones. The TFI module has left me stranded in some really bad spots over the past two decades. I always kept the tool and spare in my emergency "kit".

Other than that, everything else is pretty solid and reliable. In the past 20 years owning daily drivers, drag cars and the 'ol #17, I've never had to replace a coil or distributor (cap, rotor, wires..excluded). Even running MSD 6AL or BTM, had no issues with the stock stuff.

This article says it all regarding the TFI (Thick Film Ignition) module.
http://www.autosafety.org/ford-tfi-module-national-class-settlement

"During the 1980's, NHTSA conducted five investigations into stalling in Ford vehicles. During those investigations, Ford withheld documents from NHTSA that would have shown a common cause of stalling -- failure of the Thick Film Ignition (TFI) module mounted on the distributor when its temperature rises above 125 C and cuts out, causing the vehicle to stall on the highway. There are over 10 million vehicles still on American roads today that suffer from the same readily-correctable design defect that can cause the engine to stop abruptly and unexpectedly, at any time and at any speed, leaving the driver without power-assisted steering or brakes and the vehicle disabled. Vehicles with the distributor mounted TFI module have a 9% higher fatal crash rate than those with a different module system."

[chris-CMC#35]

On the 94-95 models, they moved the ignition module off the distributor and put it on the fenderwell.

I always wondered why it was over there...now I know.


thanks
chris

[Rob Liebbe]

100% Agreement with Eric. I keep a coil and a TFI module and the TFI specific socket in my kit. At least I think the TFI module is in there - better check. However, I have never had a failure on the race car. I had a Ranger truck that failed a module once. The limit seems to be about 80,000 miles and they go out.

[David Love AI27]

100% Agreement with Eric. I keep a coil and a TFI module and the TFI specific socket in my kit. At least I think the TFI module is in there - better check. However, I have never had a failure on the race car. I had a Ranger truck that failed a module once. The limit seems to be about 80,000 miles and they go out.

same here on my '86 V-6 Ranger... but never on 5.0 Mustangs

[GlennCMC70]

so Ford guys, whats the cost of those two parts?

[evarner]

so Ford guys, whats the cost of those two parts?

Wide range depending on manufacturer.

Accel Performance $68
Motorcraft $153
Niehoff $46-128
Duralast $42

Tool ~$10

http://www.coolcats.net/tech/troubleshooting/images/tfi1.jpg

Wish Ford had moved them here (see below) on the Mustangs. This one is on an '88 Cougar with the aluminum heat sink.
http://www.coolcats.net/tech/troubleshooting/images/tfi2.jpg

[Al Fernandez]

Any reason why you cant run the 94-95 setup on the earlier 5.0s? The rules allow you to due to update/backdate.

[David Love AI27]

Vehicles with the distributor mounted TFI module have a 9% higher fatal crash rate than those with a different module system." [/i]


WOW...

[ShadowBolt]

so Ford guys, whats the cost of those two parts?

Wide range depending on manufacturer.

Accel Performance $68
Motorcraft $153
Niehoff $46-128
Duralast $42

Tool ~$10

http://www.coolcats.net/tech/troubleshooting/images/tfi1.jpg

Wish Ford had moved them here (see below) on the Mustangs. This one is on an '88 Cougar with the aluminum heat sink.
http://www.coolcats.net/tech/troubleshooting/images/tfi2.jpg

I have some off brand I paid $35.00 or $45.00 for on CMC17 when the engine started running bad at ECR. I installed a cap, rotor and Michael's spare dist. and it still would not run right. I changed the coil and that fixed it. I did put the off brand module on after returning Michael's dist. Even the Accel unit is a POS? You think I should re-install the old Motorcraft unit?

JJ

[Rob Liebbe]

What's the issue Al?

[evarner]

Any reason why you cant run the 94-95 setup on the earlier 5.0s? The rules allow you to due to update/backdate.

Not sure and never thought to pursue it.

Here are the module pinouts followed by the wiring diagram.

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/TFI_5.0_comparison.gif

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/94-95_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/91-93_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif
88-91
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif


Looks like taking an old module, gutting it and adding the three wires from the distributor, then adding extra wire to a remote (cooler) location would be the easiest. Not sure about signal timing though with the extra length wire though.

[michaelmosty]

Al, in my 3+ years I have done the following:
Bought new distributor, module, solenoid, cap, and rotor when building car.
Replaced bad solenoid after about 1 1/2 years.
Replaced dist. cap and rotor after 2-years (preventative maint.), 2 events later the new rotor blew apart. Put on new cap and rotor and everything has been fine since.

[marshall_mosty]

I had a 8 year old Mallory coil go out on my car this year at the dyno. Swapped with an AutoZone replacement ($60) and fixed the problem.

Also, I have a MSD distributor that ate it's "MSD" TFI module in about two weekends. Went to an AutoZone replacement and has been fine since.


Regarding relocating the TFI, if you wanted to go to the trouble of redoing the wiring harness to add the pigtails needed to plug into the distributor, you could mount the TFI almost anywhere. Problem is most CMC guys have stock EFI harnesses in their car and to do that modification would be pretty time consuming.

Just my .02.

[AI#97]

I had a 8 year old Mallory coil go out on my car this year at the dyno. Swapped with an AutoZone replacement ($60) and fixed the problem.

Also, I have a MSD distributor that ate it's "MSD" TFI module in about two weekends. Went to an AutoZone replacement and has been fine since.


Regarding relocating the TFI, if you wanted to go to the trouble of redoing the wiring harness to add the pigtails needed to plug into the distributor, you could mount the TFI almost anywhere. Problem is most CMC guys have stock EFI harnesses in their car and to do that modification would be pretty time consuming.

Just my .02.

Yeah, but this sounds like an opportunity for someone to build 30 or 40 harnesses that plug and play and sell for $75 ea. for the CMC crowd, and 1000's of them for the general public.

[evarner]

From someone on Stangnet

(http://forums.stangnet.com/538860-relocate-tfi.html)

Go to a yard and pull the TFI and Heatsink and harness from a 92-94 E150 302 or 351. The harness is really long and when you remove the TFI from your Mustang the harness plugs right in. I did this 10 years ago.

[Adam Ginsberg]

Just for you, Al.....as the lone carb dude.....I'm using the stock Ford Duraspark distributor, stock replacement coil, and stock Duraspark box.....as required.

Had two distributors fail (one was used, and rather questionable to begin with), and one coil. Same Duraspark box since I installed it in the car in late 2003/early 2004.

Distributors are ~$50 each, not including $20 core.
Duraspark boxes are ~$30-$35 each, no core.
Coils are $20, no core.

I have 2 spare Duraspark boxes, one spare distributor, one spare coil, 2 spare caps and rotors, a set of spare wires, and a set of spare plugs.

Cost to replace the ENTIRE ignition system (coil, Duraspark box, distributor, wires, cap, rotor, plugs) is about ~$225....give or take ~$20. There's something to be said about simplicity at the track....Al. ;)