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Todd Covini
04-22-2009, 09:57 AM
Hmmm...saw a few nuggets of info here that I wasn't aware of...

CCR Rule - 15.15 Lights
All non-formula cars must have at least one (1) operating red brake light visible from the
rear of the car, unless otherwise stated as optional (or prohibited) by the specific class
rules. All formula cars should have a red tail light. All cars must have at least one
functioning red taillight, red brake light, and adequate headlights when competing in
night races. Except during night races, all lights must be covered with tape. Brake lights
shall not be covered with tape or have their function altered or purposely hindered in any
way.

All brake lights shall only be activated by a switch, which indicates the application of the
braking system. Brake light switches and activation systems shall function so as to
indicate the moment that the brake pedal engages the brakes. No adjustment to allow
for early signals, false signals, or late signals of braking is permitted, unless superseded
by the class rules. Additionally, this rule applies to all vehicles that utilize brake lights in
a class where brake lights are optional.

michaelmosty
04-22-2009, 10:57 AM
Hmmm...saw a few nuggets of info here that I wasn't aware of...

CCR Rule - 15.15 Lights
All non-formula cars must have at least one (1) operating red brake light visible from the
rear of the car, unless otherwise stated as optional (or prohibited) by the specific class
rules. All formula cars should have a red tail light. All cars must have at least one
functioning red taillight, red brake light, and adequate headlights when competing in
night races. Except during night races, all lights must be covered with tape. Brake lights
shall not be covered with tape or have their function altered or purposely hindered in any
way.

All brake lights shall only be activated by a switch, which indicates the application of the
braking system. Brake light switches and activation systems shall function so as to
indicate the moment that the brake pedal engages the brakes. No adjustment to allow
for early signals, false signals, or late signals of braking is permitted, unless superseded
by the class rules. Additionally, this rule applies to all vehicles that utilize brake lights in
a class where brake lights are optional.
"All lights shall be covered with tape"
"Brake lights shall not be covered with tape"
????? Which is it?

mitchntx
04-22-2009, 11:02 AM
Careful, Michael. You will be accused of being a part of LAW with that kind of attitude ...

AllZWay
04-22-2009, 11:04 AM
Careful, Michael. You will be accused of being a part of LAW with that kind of attitude ...

Or mis-reading the rule. :lol:

mitchntx
04-22-2009, 11:18 AM
Brake light switches and activation systems shall function so as to indicate the moment that the brake pedal engages the brakes. No adjustment to allow
for early signals, false signals, or late signals of braking is permitted, unless superseded by the class rules. Additionally, this rule applies to all vehicles that utilize brake lights in a class where brake lights are optional.

See the bolded and italicized section ...

If I have a long pedal, that means I'm out of compliance?

Also stroking the brake pedal to get the brakes pedal up is also illegal.

Todd Covini
04-22-2009, 11:18 AM
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I don't write the rules...only try to convey them.

Some regions/officials could require headlights to be taped...per the rule.
I've heard & taken the approach that modern sealed headlights are relatively impact resistant and don't shatter. The intent of the rule is to minimize the # of 'glass' pieces on the track in the event a headlight gets taken out. I bet the language is a carryover from the old glass headlight days...which went away, what....15 years ago?

I've also seen many cars (mostly SCCA?) who tape all their tail lights and leave a single, smaller area of the light untaped. Again, modern tail lights are relatively impact resistant and break in large pieces. I don't know anyone who has taped any of their tail lights.

Maybe some language clean-up opportunities...or consistency discussions.

Clifton...what say you?

Waco Racer
04-22-2009, 11:51 AM
Clifton...what say you?

It's not my job to re-write the CCR.

ShadowBolt
04-22-2009, 12:10 PM
Clifton...what say you?

It's not my job to re-write the CCR.


Good thing you don't work for me. "it's not my job" will get you fired faster than just about anything.


JJ

mitchntx
04-22-2009, 12:14 PM
I forsee many black flags in your future, Jerry.

And speaking of black flags and Jerry, didn't you get BFed when you killed all the cones last year?

And yours was due to accident avoindance and not position gain-ance, right?

David Love AI27
04-22-2009, 12:33 PM
I forsee many black flags in your future, Jerry.

And speaking of black flags and Jerry, didn't you get BFed when you killed all the cones last year?

And yours was due to accident avoindance and not position gain-ance, right?

I've been waiting for this one.... :twisted: :twisted:

Waco Racer
04-22-2009, 12:50 PM
Clifton...what say you?

It's not my job to re-write the CCR.


Good thing you don't work for me. "it's not my job" will get you fired faster than just about anything.


JJ

It's not as though I haven't offered to help.

ShadowBolt
04-22-2009, 12:52 PM
I forsee many black flags in your future, Jerry.

And speaking of black flags and Jerry, didn't you get BFed when you killed all the cones last year?

And yours was due to accident avoindance and not position gain-ance, right?

I was in trouble. Clifton was on me like a duck on a Junebug but you (and I don't know who if anyone else) stuck up for me and I did not get pinged. It was my first race ever. I'll just say it now. If it was done to gain a position it's not the same in my eyes as me hitting the cones to keep from hitting you hard in the rear at 80-100 mph. Maybe we need a rule that you can't go under the white line to pass as long as the cones are having to be used at TWS. If it was me I would have tried to use the cones to set a pick. If that's what you did then I say it was a good racing move and if you were passed by the guy that hit the cones......... I don't need anymore black flags.

JJ

ShadowBolt
04-22-2009, 12:53 PM
Clifton...what say you?

It's not my job to re-write the CCR.


Good thing you don't work for me. "it's not my job" will get you fired faster than just about anything.


JJ

It's not as though I haven't offered to help.

Just kidding Clifton. I just hate that sentance.


JJ

AI#97
04-22-2009, 12:57 PM
Maybe we need a rule that you can't go under the white line to pass as long as the cones are having to be used at TWS. If it was me I would have tried to use the cones to set a pick.

I nearly did that to Patterson at the end of R3...but decided not to be a dick. I think I won by 18" or so. :shock: Next time, he's getting a grill full of cones! ;)

Todd Covini
04-22-2009, 12:59 PM
I forsee many black flags in your future, Jerry.

And speaking of black flags and Jerry, didn't you get BFed when you killed all the cones last year?

And yours was due to accident avoindance and not position gain-ance, right?

I was in trouble. Clifton was on me like a duck on a Junebug but you (and I don't know who if anyone else) stuck up for me and I did not get pinged. It was my first race ever. I'll just say it now. If it was done to gain a position it's not the same in my eyes as me hitting the cones to keep from hitting you hard in the rear at 80-100 mph. Maybe we need a rule that you can't go under the white line to pass as long as the cones are having to be used at TWS. If it was me I would have tried to use the cones to set a pick. If that's what you did then I say it was a good racing move and if you were passed by the guy that hit the cones......... I don't need anymore black flags.

JJ

Glenn,
I'm starting to see that "pattern" thing Mitch was referring to.

David Love AI27
04-22-2009, 12:59 PM
I forsee many black flags in your future, Jerry.

And speaking of black flags and Jerry, didn't you get BFed when you killed all the cones last year?

And yours was due to accident avoindance and not position gain-ance, right?

I was in trouble. Clifton was on me like a duck on a Junebug but you (and I don't know who if anyone else) stuck up for me and I did not get pinged. It was my first race ever. I'll just say it now. If it was done to gain a position it's not the same in my eyes as me hitting the cones to keep from hitting you hard in the rear at 80-100 mph. Maybe we need a rule that you can't go under the white line to pass as long as the cones are having to be used at TWS. If it was me I would have tried to use the cones to set a pick. If that's what you did then I say it was a good racing move and if you were passed by the guy that hit the cones......... I don't need anymore black flags.

JJ

I like the rule about staying above the line (like in NASCAR)... however the timing loop goes to within 1 foot of the grass... so the cones didn't neeed to be that far off the edge...

so on the subject of hitting the cones?? :twisted: was there a warning issued that there would be a penalty assessed for hitting those particular cones??? :roll: :roll:

MikeP99Z
04-22-2009, 01:06 PM
The tape rule is for shattered glass - you know they make clear tape...

Had Matt decided to squeeze me low there at the end - I would have done my best impression of a bowling ball (and Matt likely would have had a nice donut to boot...) :lol:

Todd Covini
04-22-2009, 01:15 PM
The tape rule is for shattered glass - you know they make clear tape...



Cool...back on topic. So is it your interpretation that if you don't have "glass" lights then you don't need to tape them?

Not sure if any of our eligible model AI/CMC cars actually have glass headlights. Maybe only 84-86 Mustangs and 3rd gen camaros.

MikeP99Z
04-22-2009, 01:33 PM
The word "glass" is not in the rules. Technically, all lights should be taped (sidemarkers included). This should be something tech is checking on every car. The point is to not have shattered debris on the track surface.

I just left the tape on my 280Z all the time (it did have "glass" headlights). I used to take the tape off the Z28 after every weekend, and retape before every weekend. It was a pain in the ass, and messy if you used the wrong tape, and really messy if you let it cook in the sun.

Now then, the rule doesn't state "completely taped", so interpret as you will. I had one thin piece of vinyl tape going across my lights for many years.

MikeP99Z
04-22-2009, 01:42 PM
Brake light switches and activation systems shall function so as to indicate the moment that the brake pedal engages the brakes. No adjustment to allow
for early signals, false signals, or late signals of braking is permitted, unless superseded by the class rules. Additionally, this rule applies to all vehicles that utilize brake lights in a class where brake lights are optional.

See the bolded and italicized section ...

If I have a long pedal, that means I'm out of compliance?

Also stroking the brake pedal to get the brakes pedal up is also illegal.

No - the rule is to prevent someone from having a button on the dash to falsely trigger the brake lights, or no other device to falsely activate or time delay.

Feel free to pump 'em up, use them on the straight, ride them all the way around the course - as long as the lights are activated by you touching the pedal at the moment you touch the pedal.

MikeP99Z
04-22-2009, 01:51 PM
It sucks trying to cut/paste an image into this forum thing if you don't know what you're doing...

Todd Covini
04-22-2009, 02:17 PM
It sucks trying to cut/paste an image into this forum thing if you don't know what you're doing...

Your team-mate is the consumate professional at this.
Ask for the 7-Minute Cat Course on posting images.