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View Full Version : Adam resigns...is someone happy now? anyone? Bueller?



chris-CMC#35
07-10-2006, 07:37 AM
Wow.

Rob Liebbe
07-10-2006, 07:51 AM
OK - I'll be first.


WTF!!!!!!

Mike Bell
07-10-2006, 08:02 AM
Huh?

mitchntx
07-10-2006, 08:13 AM
I hope whomever was behind this is freaking happy.

TEXAST1
07-10-2006, 08:29 AM
Is a Freak and is Happy? :?:

Who is going to step in for the punishment and abuse?

A new leader?

AllZWay
07-10-2006, 08:42 AM
Who is going to step in for the punishment and abuse?

A new leader?

The way they are treated.... I am not sure why anyone would want too.

Mike Bell
07-10-2006, 09:00 AM
That's true, and I'm more guilty than most of flipping $hit Adam's way. He did a good job taking all the criticisms and soldiering on with the series' best interests in mind. Thanks for all you did for us Adam.

I hope you can now enjoy your time at the track as a competitor and reap the rewards for all of your efforts.

Rob Liebbe
07-10-2006, 09:06 AM
I don't know, that announcement sounded deeper than just not being director anymore. "Enjoy Racing Guys" sounded more serious. I hope that I am wrong and we will get to continue to run around the track with Adam.

I'm sure/hope there will be a more in depth report out by Adam and/or Todd when they are ready.

AI#97
07-10-2006, 09:15 AM
And the hits just keep on comin'!

What next?


Hopefully, Adam will continue to race with us to keep car counts up and maybe he can take a different role? more of a CMC rules interpreter/knowledge base for the series....???

I think I am just going to cruise from here on out and stay out of all this BS so I don't get wound up in it all again. I am going to go finish refreshing the car, show up at TWS, see what transpires and race. Just too much other shit to worry about than getting caught up in all this.... :(

donovan
07-10-2006, 09:22 AM
This sucks...

Boudy
07-10-2006, 09:29 AM
Yep, the Cheerios are now contaminated. :(

Boudy

GlennCMC70
07-10-2006, 09:31 AM
well i hate to hear that. you were 100% responsible for bringing CMC/AI to TX and there is no reason for this. i surely hope you will continue to race w/ us, and not just because we need the car count. call if you would like to vent.

cjlmlml
07-10-2006, 09:52 AM
A couple questions that are unresolved?


1. Who was the coward that "protested" Adams car at Hallet
and wont step forward?

I say "protest" because no form was filled out and yet his
hood was sealed etc.

How does that happen?



( I may not have all the info. on this , but what I do know is
disturbing)

2. Why werent scales at Hallett?


3. I know Adam had a conference call with Nasa officials, I assume it didnt go to well. I would like to know more.

macstang
07-10-2006, 10:04 AM
WOW. Our first full season in Texas, and the drama that unfolds is just amazing. I wonder if I can start a Mississippi region NASA? I am with you Matt, just gonna keep quiet and race.

I thought all this stuff only happens in the Army, guess I was wrong.

gt40
07-10-2006, 10:31 AM
I am with you Matt, just gonna keep quiet and race.I think we'd all be a lot better off is more folks did that. This petty sniping and backstage bullshit is doing nothing but hurting the series and making enemies.

gt40
07-10-2006, 10:32 AM
This petty sniping and backstage boo-diddley-diddley...And this is getting pretty annoying too. We're all adults here. Why the censorship?

mitchntx
07-10-2006, 10:44 AM
It's too bad this kind of vocal and public support for our leaders wasn't heard before the sky fell.

AI#97
07-10-2006, 10:54 AM
Well, WE are ALL partners in this effort along with Todd/Adam and Jay and Shannon and National.....IF we don't come to a decisive conclusion that is acceptable and positive....I have three websites for you guys to think about.....


www.av8ss.com

www.scca.com

http://geocities.com/northeastiron/

These are your alternatives....some positive, some bad. Maybe we should have our sit down and take the positives from all of these groups and make our region better than any alternative out there....THAT is the only thing that will keep this group growing. I suggest EVERYONE go and spend 5 minutes reviewing these three organizations and attempt to figure out what you like/dislike about it. Bring some constructive suggestions to the table and we present to NASA TX, NASA National and whomever else we want involved, and move forward.

Quite frankly, I am sick of all the bitching and BS that has been happening. I want to BS about cars, talk S-H-I-T about who's faster and generally have a good time racing, drinking and having fun with the gang instead of constantly trying to keep a series in line with opinions flying back and forth. I said it a few weeks ago, we cannot let this season end sourly.....if we do, were fucked.

Said my piece, see you monkeys in August!

MW

michaelmosty
07-10-2006, 10:56 AM
This sucks...
Agreed.

donovan
07-10-2006, 11:14 AM
I see only one good thing coming from this...

Adam can focus on racing...

cjlmlml
07-10-2006, 12:16 PM
Didnt Arnold say-

If it doesnt kill you it makes you stronger?

Rob Liebbe
07-10-2006, 12:36 PM
Maybe, but he also said - "If it bleeds, you can kill it." from Predator

Todd Covini
07-10-2006, 01:12 PM
Guys,
This was a surprise for me as well. Our discussions from the weekend were not complete and despite my deleting his resignation post a few times last nite, it looks as though Adam has made up his mind.

I will continue the talks with NASA this week and see what, if any, resolutions can be made going forward. I'm still planning on a State of the Union address soon and still planning on a Mid-Year Review at Wings N' More at TWS to review where we've been and where we're going.

Let's try to keep a positive attitude and not react negatively in any way. We've come a long way as a group and have met nearly every single one of our Texas goals for the series to date. While it was never easy, Adam should be extremely proud of that fact. It's no time for us to start "looking elsewhere" for other racing venues when we're on top!

I hope to update you all in the coming days.
Stay tuned.

-=- Todd Covini

AI#97
07-10-2006, 01:31 PM
It's no time for us to start "looking elsewhere" for other racing venues when we're on top!
-=- Todd Covini

todd, my comment was mostly directed to point out that the other series that were mentioned aren't exactly great alternatives for the racers in this region so maybe we use the pluses from all series, implement them to make us as happy as we can and then we all shut the fugg up and race...

If you read the rules in each of those series, the goals and efforts of those series, classes of cars in those series, you will find that NASA TX fits what this group is looking for overall, but they have several other "important points of focus" that sell their series where NASA in general is a little lacking. Combine all of the information and you got a winner! :wink:

oz98cobra
07-10-2006, 01:52 PM
....
Let's try to keep a positive attitude and not react negatively in any way. We've come a long way as a group and have met nearly every single one of our Texas goals for the series to date. While it was never easy, Adam should be extremely proud of that fact. It's no time for us to start "looking elsewhere" for other racing venues when we're on top!

I hope to update you all in the coming days.
Stay tuned.

-=- Todd Covini

So what are you saying Todd? That we all just have to tow the line and put up with a situation no matter what? This ain't China my friend! We have choices - we can chose to race with another sanctioning body, we can chose to start our own group, or we can chose not to race at all - and NASA TX needs to know and understand this!

As a driver who was on the receiving end of disrespect and blatent misconduct by NASA TX officials at Hallett, I have serious reservations about giving my hard earned money to NASA TX until such time as that issue has been satisfactorily addressed with me personally - and with the rest of the group who are painfully aware that something insidious went down that weekend. So far this has not occured! I have heard only that the issue has been diluted, played down, and skirted around, and I have been told to expect a reprimand for "my tone with the officials" - which frankly is just unbelievable as I was not part of the problem in any way shape or form!

Adam has given up tilting at windmills, which leaves you in the hot seat trying to sort something out - a position that I don't envy at all. I'm not attacking you here Todd - just making it clear to all that this whole mess is not going to just blow over - it does need to be addressed before the next round! I look forward to your updates - and if there is anything I can do to help, or you need from me, let me know.

cjlmlml
07-10-2006, 02:48 PM
There is a complete difference between bitching because the race report isnt out yet and wanting the truth to come out about what happened to Adams car at Hallett.


Bitching by itself is useless.

Offer a solution.

Skip Smith did, thats why he is writing the most recent race report.


I agree with Daron and want some answers.

If the rest of you want to be pushovers and say, oh lets just forget it and let NASA push us around, then you can go f a goat.

I am looking forward to the Wings and More lynching of Todd Covini.

HAHA

Good luck Todd.


Maybe we should have Shannon/Nasa at our Wings and More meeting?

donovan
07-10-2006, 03:11 PM
I want an explanation as well.

Where does NASA get off doing this Tech BS at Hallett, then running off a Director and not explain anything to the racers.

If NASA does not clean up their style soon I suspect we will see more people leave. I don’t have plans to come back next year at this point. I may change my mind if things change.

David D.

mitchntx
07-10-2006, 03:14 PM
It's obvious to even the most naive of the Texas group (me) that there is some force working against the race directors.

This down hill slide started last year when Todd/adam were stripped of tech duties. We, as a group, should have recognized this power struggle then. But even with the hints given by Todd and Adam, I turned a blind eye and raced on. Hind sight is 20/20

Whomever this force is in total, I know I was approached at Hallett about taking a series director's job. I thought this kind of strange as there were 2 long standing directors in place. I have shared this with a couple of folks in confidence, but I see now what all this was leading up to.

It stinks, folks.

My "run-ins" with both Todd and Adam are well publicized. I have never intentionally tried to keep either of them out of the loop by trampling up their back in order to go over their head. Likewise, I haven't turned issues into secret squirrel stuff either. I am a person that is what you see.

I talked with Adam for a while today and am just speechless at the lack of simple respect given to a person that has worked so hard to give us a place to race and others a place hang their hat.

This is so typical of a micro-managed company ... scapegoats get the blame and managers get accolades.

This sickens me and is a HUGE black eye for this region. We are quickly becoming the laughing-stock of American Iron through simple association.

donovan
07-10-2006, 03:31 PM
Others have been asked as well... ask me how I know...

gt40
07-10-2006, 03:38 PM
Others have been asked as well... ask me how I know...OK -- I'll ask. How do you know?

gt40
07-10-2006, 03:39 PM
Others have been asked as well... ask me how I know...OK -- I'll ask. How do you know?

donovan
07-10-2006, 04:20 PM
Others have been asked as well... ask me how I know...OK -- I'll ask. How do you know?

I have been asked.

AI#97
07-10-2006, 04:26 PM
Others have been asked as well... ask me how I know...

Heresay at best?! :wink: :wink: :wink:

I wouldn't list the position as "world's most sought after positions" anyway..... :roll:

Lewis Tanner
07-10-2006, 05:23 PM
Well, when you run your organization with a good-old-boy intimidation attitude like Jay and Shannon do and the national organization looks the other way for some reason, this happens.

Bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit - NASA National Guys that are on the board watching - I'm so disappointed with how this turned out and how you let it happen that I could spit.

The fact that Jay and Shannon pulled the crap they pulled at Hallett and the result is our series director leaving (being driven out by them) is ridiculous.

AI#97
07-10-2006, 05:48 PM
Well, when you run your organization with a good-old-boy intimidation attitude like Jay and Shannon do and the national organization looks the other way for some reason, this happens.

Bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit - NASA National Guys that are on the board watching - I'm so disappointed with how this turned out and how you let it happen that I could spit.

The fact that Jay and Shannon pulled the crap they pulled at Hallett and the result is our series director leaving (being driven out by them) is ridiculous.

Hmmm, I need to find that post where you told ME to chill!!! :P

Bye the way, I need to thank you for the link in your sig.....we have a company trip out there next month and there were some good links in thar....! :D

Lewis Tanner
07-10-2006, 06:09 PM
Hmmm, I need to find that post where you told ME to chill!!!

Well, how else would you describe Shannon letting Jay, who is not a series official in any manner, crawl all over Adam's car, showing how little he knows about the rules he thinks he's enforcing (Hint: MM control arms are legal) without so much as a single official reason why? He was poking around our cars while we were on grid as well. Would you let a spectator do that? Then why is he doing it? If there's a protest against someone's car, there is a procedure for handling it, which Jay and the gang are clearly not interested in following, and there's apparently no recourse for those that get bullied around by their actions. The behavior I witnessed at Hallett was an inexcusable example of a shakedown job at best, and it's more than clear that nothing is going to be done about it. They got their way, and the "you don't have anywhere else to race" attitude will keep being reinforced, and that's all that matters.

Maybe the fact that there were only 4 cars in the HPDE sessions and the Spec Miata folks all but abandoned the event is an indicator of what people that have alternatives will do?


I'm done with NASA TX, folks. You enjoy your racing here as well. Maybe I'll run a few events per season with the Pantas gang or some other group that can get their shit together enough to bring scales to a race event on a regular basis and focus on Nationals, but I'm not patronizing an orgainization that has made it more than clear that they'll abandon procedure in the name of bullying someone out of their way.

mitchntx
07-10-2006, 06:35 PM
I'm planning on doing the TDE event in Cresson on Sept 9/10

jeffburch
07-10-2006, 07:21 PM
I called Nat'l HQ today and pulled my entry for the Nationals.
Voted with my wallet on their in-action on this subject.
I was pre-reg'd as well for TWS.
I had to ask myself, can I give continue to give these guys my money?
I may change my mind as I have time to re-up.
But at the moment, I'm out.
Have at it.


jb

___________________
smell ya later

Lewis Tanner
07-10-2006, 08:01 PM
I want to make one thing clear here - Adam's resignation, although regrettable, has little to do with my attitude here or my decision to not participate. The bottom line is that the episode of anonymous allegations leading to unofficial shakedown inspections that were performed by people that have no business touching racer's cars is simply unacceptable, insulting, and wrong. I could imagine no more clear manner in which to communicate how little respect for us as racers those in charge have than the episode of classlessness and disdain for the very rules that NASA TX is supposed to be holding everyone - including themselves - to that unfolded at Hallett last month. None. They took the procedure book for handling protests and simply threw it out the window. I don't really care what their motivation for doing so was, be it to railroad Adam out of the series or something else. I just care that it happened, has been deemed acceptable by lack of action or any communication whatsoever, and could happen to anyone else in the series as a result. Now that it's apparent that there isn't going to be any action taken as a result of that behavior, I'm placed in the position of having to either put up with it or go somewhere else - and I'm not one to put up with shenanigans like that. Combine that with the lack of scales, unawareness of rules, disregard for racer input on things like safety (Birkens anyone? How long did we point out that there was a serious safety issue there while being ignored?), and the general attitude of "where else are you going to race?" and I've got a pretty bitter taste in my mouth with regard to NASA TX. Maybe they'll get it together sometime next season or the one after that. I'll be watching.

Mike Bell
07-10-2006, 08:33 PM
Didn't Todd say that discussions were not completed yet? I too want Adam to get a fair shake on this deal and for NASA TX to make it right - they may yet do so. Let's give Todd some time and latitude to do his magic. Before we go deciding to get pitchforks and hand grenades I'd hope that NASA TX would give us an update or explanation. I'm not saying it would solve everything but perhaps there is actually some discussion going on offline to resolve this issue to everyone's satisfaction.

With that said, I'm not interested in showing up at TWS if the AI/CMC group, emphasis on group, is not attending. This includes Adam and Daron. I'd rather we found a DE event to go to and hang out between sessions shooting the bull and giving each other a hard time like we've done in the past. :lol:

We may not get to race but at least we'd get to have fun together - again.

Boudy
07-10-2006, 08:57 PM
In light of recent events and from what I am reading, it looks so far as though it's -1 car for the Nationals and -4 cars for TWS.

Allow me to 5th the motion, I'm OUT until further notice!

Let's find something else to do in August to support this GROUP.

Boudy

Rob Liebbe
07-10-2006, 09:27 PM
I would certainly like to hear/see more of the story. I need Adam's comments for starters just to help me understand better. An explanation from NASA better be very close at hand as well - and it better be good!!!

It seems like a shame/waste to break up a group of great racing friends without the full story. I missed a hell of a lot by missing Hallet, I know that. But I do want to go racing - not open tracking.

Maybe NASA will get it's shit together, maybe not. Maybe National will step in, maybe not. Remember who's car got seriously damaged due to NASA's poor judgement last year - that's right, mine. I gave them another chance. Some people told me to get out of NASA then and go SCCA, but they don't have a class for CMC cars. Maybe a field of twenty cars and drivers will change that.

We could look into other sanctioning bodies or form our own (Yahoo Racing Limited was formed as a tongue-in-cheek answer to SCCA looking down their noses at a few of us many years ago - we even had chapters around the country and in England and ran at least one event). There are other venues that would enjoy our company such as CVAR, SCCA, TWS Track Days, and more I'm sure.


This is just my $0.02 worth of rambling but it seems like the exodus is moving faster than necessary. Count to ten and listen for a day or two until the dust settles.

Then let's move forward, whichever direction that might be.

TEXAST1
07-10-2006, 09:36 PM
Some of your reactions are childish and selfish and most of all cowardly.

If you want change to take place be a POSITIVE INFLUENCE on the best group in NASA and one of the best NASA Divisions in the Country!!!

I am sick of reading about how I am not attending because I don't like what I am have seen or heard. Be a member and part of the positive solution rather than just rubbing salt in the wound and a nay-sayer

I know what most of you want to say because I am a NASA official. However, most of you know me and know I am fair, honest and a strait shooter with all of you and an honorary member of the AI CMC Group and Proud to be!

Look, like it or not this is the best dance in town and the most user friendly. I can speak from over 10 years of racing experience.

Lastly, it is tough to go back to not passing in the corners once you try it you never go back! 8) DE's are limited fun because the best passes are side by side, wheel to wheel, turn to turn. :wink:

TWS 2.9 is a great track and close for all of us.

mitchntx
07-10-2006, 09:44 PM
hmmm ....

Either race and be worried that I will be the next chosen one singled out with this new norm ...

or

Hit a DE with friends, have fun and not worry about narcs or the police showing up.

Kevin, I see your point. That exact scenario has been played out here "for the good of the series". There are some who have obviously been fighting for change for a long while now and, it appears, they got what they asked for.

I guess a win is a win, regardless of the venue.

I'm also a little confused on your definition of "cowardly"

Is it those chosing to make a stand for something they see as a wrong?
Or covertly singling a person out for no apparent reason?

Lewis Tanner
07-10-2006, 09:46 PM
Some of your reactions are childish and selfish and most of all cowardly.

If you want change to take place be a POSITIVE INFLUENCE on the best group in NASA and one of the best NASA Divisions in the Country!!!

Kevin, you're not a part of the problem here. In fact, I'm confident that you're one of the people that can help NASA TX get past this and turn into an organization that values and respects those that race with them. However, I do take being called a coward in a negative manner. The only cowards here are the guy hiding in the shadows not admitting he's the one that accused Adam of cheating, and those that won't give this group the common respect of following procedure when dealing with such allegations. It has become more than clear that the only influence the AI/CMC group has is over the wallets of those that want us to keep giving them money and if that's the language we're going to have to use to communicate, then so be it. I don't like it, it's clear you don't like it, and I'm sure the majority of our group doesn't like it either.

I want an answer for how the actions of Jay at Hallet are going to be dealt with. There's been more than enough time for NASA TX to step forward and admit that they were in the wrong with what was done. There simply isn't an excuse for the way the incident was handled, IMO. The fact is that he's not an official - he resigned. And he, like Adam, no longer has any authority whatsoever to perform inspections on racecars - especially inspections that are done outside of the protocol for handling protests. It's just that cut and dry. Until they play by the rules, I'm not joining the game. If there were a legitimate reason to protest Adam's car, going through the official process would have been the right thing to do and not made the rumored whichhunt into what it is.

gt40
07-10-2006, 09:59 PM
In light of recent events and from what I am reading, it looks so far as though it's -1 car for the Nationals and -4 cars for TWS.

Allow me to 5th the motion, I'm OUT until further notice!-6

AI#97
07-10-2006, 10:06 PM
Some of your reactions are childish and selfish and most of all cowardly.

If you want change to take place be a POSITIVE INFLUENCE on the best group in NASA and one of the best NASA Divisions in the Country!!!


Thanks Kevin!!

I can't seem to reason how you guys are thinking that boycotting TWS is the solution....you are doing nothing to solve the problem but only making effort to make it worse. Given TWS is going to be the largest event of the year, 5 or 6 of you not showing is going to be like a pin prick and be nothing more than childish grandstanding.

IF NASATX is going to be the "only game in town"...please work to fix it whether it be bitching at Todd, Jay or the wall.....don't do anything more to make the problem worse.

Racing, like life is unfair...there is always going to be a big bad bully with a pocketbook beating up on the little guys, the rules are always going to suck, the officials are always going to be wrong or hated and until you guys accept that and GROW UP and solve this problem, you will be just as wrong as those officials at Hallet.

I will be at TWS with my game face on and doing my 105% best to win AI this season in TX. I ask that the rest of you guys nut up and do your best to put on the show the 7 or 8 people in the stands come to see and do your best to have a good time. I will bring the beer...kegs are cheap in CS...

Regards,

The dumbfuckingrookie... :roll:

Lewis Tanner
07-10-2006, 10:18 PM
I can't seem to reason how you guys are thinking that boycotting TWS is the solution....

It solves the problem I have. That of paying money to a group that would stoop to the level we saw at Hallett. It's a pretty simple concept, really. They want to run their organization in a manner that I, and apparently others, take issue with. You, and apparently others, don't take issue with the behavior we've seen and won't let things like spending time and money on dynoing cars that we don't have any idea as to how much they weigh or the beat-to-death "inspection", or nary a word to a driver passing under a yellow flag, or any number of other issues I've watched our directors try to handle in a "positive" manner with few results keep you from patronizing the company.

I'm not asking anyone else to not attend anything. If you don't have a problem with the way things are, good for you, you're a better man than I. Enjoy your season and best of luck with your run at the championship - seriously.

It's Shannon's show to run, and I know she busts her ass to do things the way she feels work best - but if that includes not stepping forward and making it clear that things like what transpired at Hallett aren't acceptable in very short order after they occur - I have to say that I really don't see myself getting to the point where we see eye-to-eye no matter how positive I try to be. It's a simple matter of respect for others and communicating with those you're in a position of authority over. Authority without communication is dictatorship, and any communication regarding what happened almost a month ago - even a "we're dealing with it guys" would have gone a long way towards nipping all of this in the bud. It's not like anyone here thought what went down at Hallett would just blow over if nobody said anything about it for long enough and the very public manner in which it happened ensured that everyone knew at least something about what happened - making communication all the more important... unless you don't care what those you're communicating to think.

BTW, my comments on this issue will remain in this forum, which is private for a reason. Perhaps they will lead to something constructive rather than defensiveness.

Adam Ginsberg
07-10-2006, 11:00 PM
Folks -

My decision to step down as your Series Director was indeed a complete surprise to Todd, JWL, and NASA Texas.

Each racer has to decide for themselves how they wish to handle their own particular situation. Several of you are in a points chase for the championship - even for the ones that aren't, going to TWS shows your support of the series, and one another, regardless of the problems we face.

I'll let NASA Texas and Todd provide you with the explanation, at their discretion.

Todd has been a true friend, and a great mentor to me since we met in 2003. You all are extremely fortunate to have that guy in your court. Give him time to work the issue(s), and provide him the utmost respect he deserves. He's earned it.

Boudy
07-10-2006, 11:05 PM
:shock: :shock: :shock: Just hang on a second, Adam was a POSSITIVE INFLUENCE in this group for years. In fact, he helped build it and he's gone for it. Railroaded out. It was no accident and management made it no secret that getting rid of Adam was part of the plan. This region is run by tantrums on the grid, good ole' boy catering, lack of respect for those who helped build it, and lack of regard for the rules.(Hmm, sounds like SCCA) Any belief that quietly attending the next event will change this is naive. This group has received an enormous injustice that was personal, deliberate, planned, and executed. Adam mearly wrote the last verse.

Do I want to be a part of this series? Duh, it's the only game in town. Sure each of us could just attend the next event and reward NASA TX with our $300 gift but what happens when you are the next guy to make the sh!t list.

Boudy

GlennCMC70
07-10-2006, 11:42 PM
before you deside to turn 2006 into a "scab" (football strike term) season, talk w/ Shannon and Jay over the phone and then deside. we are 2 events way from completing the season. see this season out and then deside if you want to continue to race w/ NASA. there are some good points battles going on and the results of will be skewed due to people wanting to make a point. i am in the points lead for now, and i want to win this thing by beating everyone, and not everyone except those who "boycotted" NASA. its bad enough we havent had a good showing from Todd and Cory this year, and now you guys go and pull this crap.
we race because we love to race. you guys will regret fouling up the season, if all this turns out to be not so big of a deal. yes, there are issues w/ NASA, and i think alot of it is due to a lack of communication between us and NASA TX. alot of that is due to constraints put in place by NASA National. w/out that communication we have been allowed to let the rummor mill run rampant.

i'll be @ TWS, will you be there to stop me?!? i hope so.

chicane23
07-11-2006, 12:07 AM
Well…I might just have to make TWS if everyone is going to boycott the event and this may put me back in the points race. ;-) Yea right, RP/CM and Matt W. will be there for sure and I have no car and I'm going to Sea World that Weekend. ;-)

We all have had trouble with something in CMC/AI/AIX and this is part of the growing pains of any organization. With any successful business there must be a plan and sometimes this plan involves change.

And guess what change is something we all have to deal with at one time or another.

I look forward to the new changes that Todd and NASA-TX has in store for this series.

Glenn is correct, don't throw away a great chance to battle door to door for the championship.

Here is a little story from the past for you. I had a coach that missed out on a great opportunity to wrestle at the Olympics, which the US boycotted in 1980. Don’t be sorry, go to TWS shows your support for the series.

macstang
07-11-2006, 12:57 AM
i'll be @ TWS, will you be there to stop me?!? i hope so.

Yes Glenn "Army of one" will be in your mirror. Perhaps "lets roll" will be in your windshield. We will see.

I may be more naive than Mitch because I was at Hallett, and have no idea of what went on there with all this.

We race in NASA-Southeast, and they have a world class organization. albeit a new organization as they formed in April 2004. They are always organized, always have trophys or mugs, and trophy girls, and allow their series directors the leeway to manage and enforce their series the way they see fit. They do have about a 300 car count at the larger events so its easy to feel like a number.

This being said, we did decided to do a run at the NASA Texas series for 2006. we made that decision last year and are sticking to it regardless of what happens during the season. Next year is another year.

We drive a long way to race with yall, so, "only race in town" doesnt count for us, we do have other choices.

So far, all the racers have been awesome, but there are also some benefits to having a sactioning body that doesnt have their shit together.

If yall are quitting, then dont be like MW and just say you are. If your racing, we will see yall in College Station and have a good time.

Sorry Matt, I had to go there.

MikeP99Z
07-11-2006, 02:31 AM
I'm willing to play suggestion box here, as a non-involved party and as friends with the good, the bad, and the ugly (Mixon of course). Who's the good and who's the bad - I'll leave that up to you.

PM or email me your suggestions on how you think the system could be improved. I'll compile a comprehensive report. I'll get answers to your questions as best as possible. Present me the problem(s) and your solutions to it.

You want professional - then approach it as professional. I'll get you the same in return.

Mike Bell
07-11-2006, 06:05 AM
Nevermind, I see that NASA TX has responded to Mitch's thread over on NASAFORUMS.

http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=10194

mitchntx
07-11-2006, 07:27 AM
I'm glad she did.

The only way this mess is gonna get cleared up is if some open, honest communication ensues.

TEXAST1
07-11-2006, 08:08 AM
I was not at Hallett so I will not pretend to know what went on exactly nor will I pretend I don't know what has been said on both sides. However I will not comment on I have heard as hear say evidence either. Point is what was done is done!

We need to move on and be a stronger and more aware group. "What Doesn't Kill you Makes you Stronger!" (5th Element, Gary Oldman, 1997)

We need to buckle up "All" be very aware of the rules that affect us, not only the class rules but proceedural rules.

Several of you made extremely valid points. I say again we can make a positive outcome from this and all grow in a positive direction or we can let these incidents break us down and tear us apart.

I'll ask again where are your strong leaders going to come from? They must step forward with conviction, knowledge and courage.

Lastly, Cowardly is as Cowardly does. Take it for what it is. I direct that at no one and at everyone who fail to take proper action.

Boudy
07-11-2006, 08:43 AM
I commented that I was OUT until further notice. Shannon's reply is what I was looking for. I'm happy to see her engage, hopefully, there will be a resolution and we can all go back to bitchin' about racin'.

Boudy

Mike Bell
07-11-2006, 08:56 AM
I want to know:

Will Team Shrack (Adam and Daron) be racing at TWS or not?

cjlmlml
07-11-2006, 09:26 AM
Right after Hallett , I emailed Shannon regarding all the turmoil at Hallet, possibility of NASA TX being sold, TWS event cancellation etc.

I went to the horses mouth back then.

She said the TWS event was still on , and that she would call me regarding other concerns.

Well, it took her 3 weeks to call me back, and she apologized for the tardiness.



I can also say I do not agree with how things have always been handled by NASA TX . (Who does ?)



A couple points that we discussed in our conversation:


1. Scales were not there because Jay and Shannon flew to Tulsa

2. Pre race communication about lack of scales was not effective and
over all communication could and should be improved.
( I told her Skip probably could have brought his scales if he was notified)

3. Adam- Both parties agreed to part ways. No further information
given to me

4. Witch Hunt- Nasa does not cater to certain individuals who wish to
undermine things or go behind the scenes to get things done.

It is only peoples perception that this is happening.

I am not sure I totally agree with this.


5. Nasa had a skeleton crew working there, thats why Jay was involved in duties that he usually isnt involved in.

6. Jay and Shannon are moving to El Paso, but will continue to run NASA TX


7. NASA TX is not for sale, but if someone came along with a good offer
and a good business plan to run the series, they would listen.

Everything is for sale for the right price. (My comment)

8. She will work to improve the series, but needs specifics.


9. Racers as a whole have big egos. If something goes wrong,
it is not always a personal attack on you.


Example: If you forget to weigh, it doesnt mean "they" are out to get you , it means you forgot to weigh.

10. I have invited Shannon to say a few words at our TWS meeting.
This could be very constructive.


I dont have all the answers I am looking for , but I have offered a few suggestions to Shannon and I think we can build from here.

If you have other suggestions, get them to Todd and we can work on this.

AI#97
07-11-2006, 09:41 AM
If yall are quitting, then dont be like MW and just say you are. If your racing, we will see yall in College Station and have a good time.

Sorry Matt, I had to go there.

No problem Jerry...I grew up and found that talking directly to clifton/shannon and the directors that I was able to get the changes made that changed my decision to leave. As patterson put it, use professional tactics to get the professional results you want to achieve. It worked. The inverted starts were revised because we worked the issue and resolved. Same process needs to happen here.

To answer lewis' question about what would I do if I became the focus of a rules issue at the next event... well, I would put the responsibility onto them to prove I am not in compliance. If they can't do it....fuck'em. I bring a compliant car to every race....possibly over compliant. I can't defend what happened in Hallet as I wasn't there....however, run a spec series like SM or S7's and I am certain you are going to see stuff like that. I would also imagine the Series directors in those series also receive even higher scrutiny to prove points. guess what? It's called racing.....

michaelmosty
07-11-2006, 10:02 AM
Didn't Todd say that discussions were not completed yet? I too want Adam to get a fair shake on this deal and for NASA TX to make it right - they may yet do so. Let's give Todd some time and latitude to do his magic. Before we go deciding to get pitchforks and hand grenades I'd hope that NASA TX would give us an update or explanation. I'm not saying it would solve everything but perhaps there is actually some discussion going on offline to resolve this issue to everyone's satisfaction.

With that said, I'm not interested in showing up at TWS if the AI/CMC group, emphasis on group, is not attending. This includes Adam and Daron. I'd rather we found a DE event to go to and hang out between sessions shooting the bull and giving each other a hard time like we've done in the past. :lol:

We may not get to race but at least we'd get to have fun together - again.
Perfectly said Mike!!

oz98cobra
07-11-2006, 12:05 PM
...
No problem Jerry...I grew up and found that talking directly to clifton/shannon and the directors that I was able to get the changes made that changed my decision to leave. As patterson put it, use professional tactics to get the professional results you want to achieve. It worked. The inverted starts were revised because we worked the issue and resolved. Same process needs to happen here....

You mean that you circumvented the series directors and went directly to the NASA TX officials to get your way? I guess you could call that "professional tactics"? ;)


... I can't defend what happened in Hallet as I wasn't there....however, run a spec series like SM or S7's and I am certain you are going to see stuff like that. I would also imagine the Series directors in those series also receive even higher scrutiny to prove points. guess what? It's called racing.....

Matt, you are missing the key issue here - the problem has nothing to do with scrutiny of cars whatsover - it was that way that the officials went about it - their behaviour and treatment of me, and their failure to educate themselves about the rules pertaining to a serious compliance issue! That is NOT racing - all racers should expect to be treated with respect, honesty, and in good faith - the CCRs specifically address officials behaviour, procedures and misconduct!

oz98cobra
07-11-2006, 12:07 PM
I want to know:

Will Team Shrack (Adam and Daron) be racing at TWS or not?

Adam will not be racing at TWS - or any other NASA TX event. Whether I am there or not depends on how all this unfolds?

Mike Bell
07-11-2006, 12:10 PM
I want to know:

Will Team Shrack (Adam and Daron) be racing at TWS or not?

Adam will not be racing at TWS - or any other NASA TX event. Whether I am there or not depends on how all this unfolds?

I'm very sorry to hear it. I hope to see you both someday soon at the track.

GlennCMC70
07-11-2006, 12:22 PM
i'm sorry to hear that Adam will not make TWS. i would think he would / could overlook his issue w/ NASA TX in order to come out and race w/ a group of people who enjoy racing just as he does. i would think he would want to be around those that call him a friend a possibly come out and see what its like racing as just another racer, and not as a director. there is alot of support here for him, and he should come out for no other reason than to just have fun.
if the CMC/AI fund paid his entry fee for TWS, would that help him change his mind?
if too many oppose that, i would chip into a collection for him. mark the first $20 from myself.

cmarvel
07-11-2006, 12:52 PM
Actually, I read Shannon's post on the national site carefully. When I read it, it actually says:

1) I can quote rules to rationalize what happened.

2) We can and will do it again if we choose to.


Behind the rules quotes and saber rattling, that is what I see in that post. Not one word about how we will prevent similar problems in the future.

Even if the what happened can be rationalized by a separate section of the rules (incidentally, series rules DO supercede the CCR when they are in conflict), we must decide if this is acceptable going forward. Again, I see nothing in Shannon's post that indicates any acceptance of responsibility for the bad situation that occured, and nothing about what will be done to prevent it in the future.

This matter is not closed in my mind, and NASA TX has not given me any reason to believe that they comprehend either the problem or the solution.

No Matt, that does not mean you can have the season championship :wink:

Todd Covini
07-11-2006, 01:33 PM
Guys,
I've always said, no matter what the situation, let's all try to "moderate" things as cooler heads will prevail. This situation is not over. I, like most of you, am seeking some assurances going forward.

As I've stated before, we continue to talk things thru with the folks at NASA. I've talked with Shannon as early as this morning and we will jointly discuss where the series has been and where we are going.

Please don't assume "Adam is leaving because of the Hallett incident". This has been brewing for quite some time and Hallett was just another prime example of a conflict within the group. That doesn't make it right or wrong, it was just another straw.

So, hang in there, we'll have some joint communications soon. I'll be changing the oil in my CMC car and will be fully prepared for TWS and we'll get all of this worked out.

-=- Todd

AI#97
07-11-2006, 01:53 PM
You mean that you circumvented the series directors and went directly to the NASA TX officials to get your way? I guess you could call that "professional tactics"? ;)



Nope, Todd and Adam were part of the argument and if I remember correctly, they told me to go directly to Clifton and Shannon....I did...and so did others. We beat that horse dead a long time ago.

As for the Hallet stuff....like I said, I have no comment as I wasn't there...I understand your view of being treated like crap...but as someone told me 4 months ago...."do you expect the series to be perfect?".... :?

AI#97
07-11-2006, 02:06 PM
No Matt, that does not mean you can have the season championship :wink:

Chris, there is no shame in giving up to support your cause! I will be sure to acknowledge your efforts in helping me achieve greatness! :P



I agree with Todd, stop the speculating and let's get the real story. It could be as simple as Jay and Adam not getting along and NASA TX orgainizers just being way too busy to square the series issues because they have other lives...? I still say they need a full time guy running it....

I suggest we ALL relax, get out in the garage and get our heaps ready for August and "cinch it up"..... If we have this much time to bitch about it, we certainly have enough time to HELP correct the problem. We ARE headed there but let's not make any rash and childish decisions that might harm the series. If NASA TX really is THE problem, then let us set the better example that will remain to carry the AI/CMC group to better things....let's not just be the "other bad guy".......

Waco Racer
07-11-2006, 03:21 PM
As a dues paying member of AI/CMC Texas I was disappointed and shocked to hear of Adam's resignation. Adam has been very helpful in me deciding whether or not to race with this group. It is a tough decision because the races are so damn much fun to watch.

As a NASA Texas official I am privy to more information than the average racer. I know that there was more to this than Hallett. I have spoken with Daron and Adam concerning what happened at Hallett. No matter who is ultimately responsible in the chain of command, I take full responsibility for my Tech Inspectors not knowing the full letter and intent of the CCR and CMC regulations. Had I been present all parties involved would have been notified of the situation. I had other duties to attend to (splitting grids for the next races, among others) and was not able to be in impound or in the paddock. I took action the week following that event to ensure that "witch hunt" scenario won't happen again. I also hope that my actions will help assure this group that NASA Texas is making every attempt to make things right in the future. I stood in your group meeting at MSR-C and took all or most of what you wanted to say to me. I prefer to handle things this way. I have adjusted to suit the needs of this group and will do what it takes to keep attitudes and attendance high.

If you need to talk to me I am a phone call, pm, or email away.

254-644-9310
C.Winkleman at nasatx dot com

donovan
07-11-2006, 03:37 PM
Yo CW,

I value you taking the time to let us know you are working with us! And that you have taken action to help that this doesn’t happen in the future. I have been waiting for this type of response; this basic message is comforting to me that this is behind us, or at least slowly leaving the rear view mirror.

I know we still have some issues, but moving forward is what all of us want and your message above lets me know things are happening.

You have always been fair and supportive of the group!

Thanks,
David D.

oz98cobra
07-11-2006, 03:43 PM
Actually, I read Shannon's post on the national site carefully. When I read it, it actually says:

1) I can quote rules to rationalize what happened.

2) We can and will do it again if we choose to.

Behind the rules quotes and saber rattling, that is what I see in that post. Not one word about how we will prevent similar problems in the future.

Even if the what happened can be rationalized by a separate section of the rules (incidentally, series rules DO supercede the CCR when they are in conflict), we must decide if this is acceptable going forward. Again, I see nothing in Shannon's post that indicates any acceptance of responsibility for the bad situation that occured, and nothing about what will be done to prevent it in the future.

This matter is not closed in my mind, and NASA TX has not given me any reason to believe that they comprehend either the problem or the solution.
...

Chris, I just spoke with Shannon on the phone. She now has the message loud and clear first hand. She did acknowledge the situation and indicated to me that she clearly understood what the real problem is here, and not all the surrounding issues that clouded things. We did discuss what is being done, and what needs to be done, to ensure that we don't see a repeat anytime soon.

I stressed the need to act sooner rather than later on this so we can put it to bed and move on - we should expect an announcement soon - hopefully it hits the mark?

cmarvel
07-11-2006, 04:10 PM
I have spoken with Daron and Adam concerning what happened at Hallett. No matter who is ultimately responsible in the chain of command, I take full responsibility for my Tech Inspectors not knowing the full letter and intent of the CCR and CMC regulations. Had I been present all parties involved would have been notified of the situation. I had other duties to attend to (splitting grids for the next races, among others) and was not able to be in impound or in the paddock. I took action the week following that event to ensure that "witch hunt" scenario won't happen again. I also hope that my actions will help assure this group that NASA Texas is making every attempt to make things right in the future. I stood in your group meeting at MSR-C and took all or most of what you wanted to say to me. I prefer to handle things this way. I have adjusted to suit the needs of this group and will do what it takes to keep attitudes and attendance high.



This IS what I was hoping for.

Thank you!

Mike Bell
07-11-2006, 04:48 PM
Something still isn't adding up for me. I'm all for putting it behind and moving forward but the fact still remains: Adam has left.

Think about that for a minute.

We've known Adam for years most of us. He's not the type to throw in the towel over something minor or even back away from a challenge. He's one of the nicest guys I've ever met (I should know, being such a jerk enables me to recognize nice guys right away lol). Everytime we needed something or wanted a change he went to bat for the AI/CMC guys and did whatever he could to help the group.

What circumstances could have caused this? I simply can't get a handle on it. Sure, he's posted a few times in this thread but he's been towing the corporate line, still being the nice guy he is. I've thought well maybe it's my guilt for being such an a$$ to Adam on so many occasions, but this isn't about me - it's about Adam. But Adam isn't shooting bullets over his shoulder or throwing rocks from afar, he's too nice of a guy for that.

He drove all the way to Vermont or somewhere up North to get a CMC car. He's worked on that car for years now, putting up with it's quirks and pains - all the while riding herd with Todd on a bunch of renegades like us. I can't come to grips with closing ranks and moving on, not without knowing the reason why.

This isn't a bash NASA or NASATX. Jay, Shannon, Clifton and even Mixon have always treated me square. In fact, more than square. But it smells like something bad has happened and we're not in on it. Something so bad that a guy as nice as Adam who's worked all these years to build and do something he really enjoyed has said "Enough" and walked away. Does that make any sense??

So now we're left with the other end of the horse, not as pretty but still part of the horse. Rumors about cheating, illegal heads, whatever. Fact remains that Adam's car dyno'd at exactly what it should, not one HP over. Seems to me that the unwritten CMC knowledge says just don't go over 230/300 and weigh above 3150 and let's go racing. Some of us came to that knowledge later than others, but with no teardown rule it is what it is.

So I continue to ask: Why did Adam leave the series he loved so much?

TEXAST1
07-11-2006, 04:54 PM
Captain Marvel,

I am personally asking you to take a stronger role in the rules interpretation for CMC and AI. Especially TECH. You have more experience than most here and your extensive back ground with the SCCA Tech would be extremely valuable. You and I both know you have seen the right way to do things and the wrong! I respect your judgement and imput on issues. Your experince would be very beneficial towards overall group satisfaction and NASA Positive Growth.

Daron,

You need to participate at TWS and the rest of the season. I value your presence at all races. I think you show guidence and wisdom at the events you attend.

GlennCMC70
07-11-2006, 04:55 PM
CW, you are forbidden to quit your job and come race w/ us. :wink: you really do a good job putting up w/ our crap and being fair and open w/ us. thank you. communication going both ways now is a good thing. thanks!

Waco Racer
07-11-2006, 05:13 PM
CW, you are forbidden to quit your job and come race w/ us. :wink:

Dang, and I was just about to plunk money down on a new LAW Motorsports CMC 4th gen racer. :shock:

Lewis Tanner
07-11-2006, 05:40 PM
Yo CW,

I value you taking the time to let us know you are working with us! And that you have taken action to help that this doesn’t happen in the future. I have been waiting for this type of response; this basic message is comforting to me that this is behind us, or at least slowly leaving the rear view mirror.

I know we still have some issues, but moving forward is what all of us want and your message above lets me know things are happening.

You have always been fair and supportive of the group!

Thanks,
David D.


Agreed, this is a more positive attitude and a step in the right direction. I can't help but think that a statement like that a few days after Hallett would have gone a long way towards diffusing the situation or even eliminating it. Every one of us has responded "More communication, please" when asked what could be done to make things better, yet we had to wait almost a month before so much as a word from the officials on what was clearly a very significant issue. Even a simple "We understand there's an issue and are working to resolve it, please be patient and understand we cannot discuss specifics until our internal processes are complete." would have been better than the silent treatment we got. From our perspective, it comes across as wagon circling and somewhat insulting to be left in the dark like that for so long.

So, once again - you want to know how to make this better?

Communicate with us. It's just that simple. Communication involves both providing information as well as listening to it from others. What we're saying here is that Daron/Adam were treated like a couple of jerks last month and that kind of behavior isn't acceptable to this group. NASA TX has all the right in the world to examine race cars for legality, but there's a right way and a wrong way to do it. What I witnessed last month was so wrong it wasn't even funny. What I can't help but notice is there are two groups of people here - those that witnessed the treatment, ranging from threats of DQ to outright lying, that Daron was subjected to and are pretty damn steamed about it, and those that weren't there and don't think it's really as big a deal as it's being made out to be. Trust me when I say this - it was handled incorrectly. Hearing something close to an admission of that from Clifton is refreshing, but as Chris so keenly observed, it doesn't appear that the treatment Daron was subjected to is seen as inappropriate throughout the NASA TX organization, which is a warning sign that it may continue, IMO.

Now, let's see some "walking the walk" to go along with that talking the talk. Like I said earlier in this thread, I'm still watching.

-LT

David Love AI27
07-11-2006, 05:41 PM
Not to further this rant, BUT I would think that NASATX has the right to throughly inspect, impound, seal or confiscate my car any time I'm at the track. It is their series and they have to answer to the national sanctioning body, track owners, insurance underwriters and the other competitors. When I was found to be wearing the wrong socks, Jon (in Tech) came to my "garage" and made an apology for fining me and my response was "DON'T EVER SAY YOU ARE SORRY FOR DOING YOUR JOB!!!".

What EXACTLY is the issue???

Why did they do it??? Cuz they can!

Why didn't they tell everyone why they did it??? Cuz they don't have to!

Is there a communication problem??? We all know there is, so it should not be a suprize.

Did this get blown out of proportion??? It always does!!

Are WE going to make it better??? Hell yes!!

I go to every event with the understanding that if my car is not in compliance, then I'm in trouble. If it is a safety issue my response will be "thanks for the help, I'll fix that right away"; if they find the NOS sticker on the bottom of my "fire extingusher" my response is either "OOPS" or "While your looking, could you show me the button to open the valve!".

Finally, I think they need to take a good look at the CMC#18. Mr. Bell missed Hallet because he didn't get his motor back together in time, why else would he be questioning the tear down rule..... :twisted: Mike I'm warning you now, if you pass me under braking no big deal you are a much better driver, :roll: BUT if you pass me on the straight... I'm filing a protest... :P (I'm bringing my checkbook or should I say Amber's checkbook). :twisted: NO POINT BY FOR YOU!! :arrow:

OK... IM DONE :!:

Lewis Tanner
07-11-2006, 05:54 PM
What EXACTLY is the issue???


The issue isn't that NASA inspected his car, it's that the inspection was done in an inappropriate manner. Things like finding a tech inspector under the hood while the car is in the paddock and nobody else is around it, questioning the tech inspector as to why he's there, and getting a bald faced, look you in the eye, full on lie from the official in question are pretty low. He actually claimed that he'd "never seen a carb'd car before and I just wanted to learn more about it." That's the kind of disrespectful, disingenuous treatment that we're talking about here and it's something that none of us should put up with - I know I won't.

This has nothing to do with the fact the NASA followed up on information that they had - they have an obligation to do so and we expect them to meet that obligation as it's their job. There's a huge difference between doing your job and treating someone like dirt, and I don't want any confusion as to which behavior really chapped my ass when I saw it.

Inspect away, but don't treat me like you think I'm an idiot while you're doing it. Learn the rules for your series before threatening people with them. And most of all, remember we're paying customers, not criminal suspects to be pushed around - treat us accordingly, please.

The next step here is for NASA TX to admit Daron's treatment at Hallett was inappropriate and explain how it will be prevented in the future. Clifton, you went a long way towards that but as Marvel pointed out, it looks like others in the organization feel that the ends justify the means here and are rationalizing themselves to be free of fault here.

oz98cobra
07-11-2006, 05:56 PM
David,

Reading my comments in this post may help fill you in on what the problem is: http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=10194

It should have been addressed ages ago - let's hope it is laid to rest soon.

TEXAST1
07-11-2006, 06:38 PM
Daron, Just a quick FYI and I am sure you already know this but, If it had been an SCCA race and they thought you were cheating... There would have been NO second race for you to go to or be held up for. Just an observation of how good we do have it. Your car may have never left impound!

It looks like most of us are making positive moves in the right direction to get the most important NASA group back on track! 8)

oz98cobra
07-11-2006, 07:22 PM
Darren, Just a quick FYI and I am sure you already know this but, If it had been an SCCA race and they thought you were cheating... There would have been NO second race for you to go to or be held up for. Just an observation of how good we do have it. Your car may have never left impound!

It looks like most of us are making positive moves in the right direction to get the most important NASA group back on track! 8)

oooh, I don't think it's a good idea to go there Kevin - If it had been an SCCA race, the officials would have followed the rule book to the letter, including their code of conduct, and if they messed up this bad, be brought up in front of an SCCA court! But we don't race with the SCCA - we race with NASA - an organisation that has clauses about "friendliness" listed under it's Officials General Philosophy (CCR 2.6.1) - and we race here by choice, many of us for the very reason that it is supposed to better than the SCCA!

mitchntx
07-11-2006, 07:59 PM
Kevin, Shannon made a lot of headway today.

Don't tear down what fences have been mended.

jeffburch
07-11-2006, 08:33 PM
Where's Adam?

Has anybody seen Adam?

I miss Adam.


jb

TEXAST1
07-11-2006, 09:34 PM
Mitch,
You are right and I should have let it go. Shannon has done an excellent job of opening up the lines of communications with the members of NASA Texas. I won't press this issue.

Daron,
I have been subject and witness to what I am specifically referencing on several occasions. You are incorrect, Sir! The SCCA is not a democracy. We can discuss this over several libations of your choice. However, this does bring out the very point as you metioned, we elect to participate with NASA and it is our choice.

I just wanted to let you know I have seen some bad happenings with the other side. It is not quite as rosy.

I respect you as a driver and racer, not Mitch so much, so lets keep up with the positve moves neccessary to keep a good club and back to the reason I started racing. IT IS FUN ! :lol: :lol:

mitchntx
07-11-2006, 09:51 PM
I respect you as a driver and racer, not Mitch so much


I will PERSONALLY weld your door bars back in place.

Boudy
07-11-2006, 10:46 PM
This IS what I was hoping for.
Thank you!

Ditto!!!

Boudy

Todd Covini
07-11-2006, 11:20 PM
Kevin, Shannon made a lot of headway today.

Don't tear down what fences have been mended.

Yes, Kevin...Mitch took the words out of my mouth.
Let's be careful comparing ourselves to SCCA or even running the events like SCCA, even if a lot of our folks have a ton of SCCA experience. If we do, we'll lose that "competitive edge" of being different.

I am all for Chris Marvel or Richard P. or whomever helping out with tech (as you all know, I need it...and we'll get to that in due time.) However, we have to retain our NASA roots and NASA "personality" and protect the rules we now have in place. Remember the phrase, "spirit & intent"? I can't 100% blame the tech guys for not knowing "our rules"...that is typically what a series director is there for. Had I been at Hallett, we could have mitigated a lot of the pain that has occurred and still accomplished whatever the goal was for those seeking something. (I still kick myself for staying home...but couldn't do anything about it.)

Today WAS a productive day with Shannon....she will be addressing the events that occurred at Hallett. (I can not speak to them as I was not there. Lewis was right....there are those that were there....and those that weren't, and the 2 populations look differently on what occurred.)

I will be addressing the go-forward plan for the series with Shannon & Clifton's input, as well as everything I've heard from y'all for some time now. It's a plan...not a promise.

I point-blank asked Shannon today with this huge hornet's nest if NASA continued to want me to be the Texas AI/CMC Director or if it was best for me to step down at this point and let the group get a "fresh start". Based upon the responses I have received from her and others, I am willing to run back into this burning house and try to put the flames out so we can move forward.

Lots of work to do...stay tuned.

Todd " 3-C" Covini
(Communication, Consistency, Compromise)

Still your....

David Love AI27
07-12-2006, 12:53 AM
David,

Reading my comments in this post may help fill you in on what the problem is: http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=10194

It should have been addressed ages ago - let's hope it is laid to rest soon.

Thanks for the link, I don't subscribe to the other forum. I guess I didn't understand the issue. :shock: Sorry that it went down like that. :cry: I have ALWAYS had good a good experience with the guys in tech and have had them climbing all over my car while visiting me in the garage. I always make an effort to go by and talk to them while at lunch or during down time. I also try to visit Kevin, Jay, Cliff, Shannon and others to try and make a personal bond outside the realm of NASATX. 8)

This is just a personal statement and I'm not implying that you don't do the same. I have also enjoyed some great conversations with you especially at the SVT weekendand hope to continue on at other events. See you at TWS???

Back to car prep. Have 3 cars to finish in three weeks :?

David Love AI27
07-12-2006, 01:31 AM
Kevin, Shannon made a lot of headway today.

Don't tear down what fences have been mended.

I can't 100% blame the tech guys for not knowing "our rules"...that is typically what a series director is there for. Had I been at Hallett, we could have mitigated a lot of the pain that has occurred and still accomplished whatever the goal was for those seeking something.

I'm SO glad you brought that up first. I was going to point out the fact that these guys are young, fairly new and still learning. LT made some comment about carbed cars and that they LIED about never seeing one. I had the exact same experience last year when they looked under the hood of my car and was shocked to see a carb on my car. :shock: It is possible that it wasn't a lie. :? These guys are young and believe it or not some guys that age haven't seen anything but EFI. :roll: I get lots of young folks who look under the hood of my car and ask "what is that on top of your intake?". :?: TRUE STORY!

In a perfect world, a tech inspector would be able to quote the rules verbatum. Who here is willing to give up their seat and take a job in tech??? Well??? Who??? :evil:

Also, the smartass remarks about Jay sticking his nose where it didn't belong are all a buch of CRAP. :x It is my understanding (please correct me if I'm wrong :? ) that he was asked to help clarify some issues due to the absence of a director.

micah
07-12-2006, 05:14 AM
adam if your not coming to tws can you get the patches to one of the dallas guys that are coming i would still like to have one.

TEXAST1
07-12-2006, 08:30 AM
Todd,

No one would fault you for not being at Hallett. We all have priorities and family takes the lead.

I would not attempt to know or speak for the group, but I would say it would be a very strong number in favor of you staying on as Series Director. I can say for certain I am! :!:

Waco Racer
07-12-2006, 08:50 AM
Lewis and group,

I do represent NASA Texas. Any statement I make represents and has the full support of Shannon Matus and John Lindsey. NASA Texas chose to address the issues with the parties directly involved and not take anything to the group until it was settled. This information was relayed to the Class Directors but it did not get to everyone. Everyone should expect a call from Shannon personally. If you haven't yet, you will. If there is anyone that you feel might not receive a phone call such as a new racer or someone that runs a limited schedule please let me know.

Clifton

AI#97
07-12-2006, 09:58 AM
Lewis and group,

I do represent NASA Texas. Any statement I make represents and has the full support of Shannon Matus and John Lindsey. NASA Texas chose to address the issues with the parties directly involved and not take anything to the group until it was settled. This information was relayed to the Class Directors but it did not get to everyone. Everyone should expect a call from Shannon personally. If you haven't yet, you will. If there is anyone that you feel might not receive a phone call such as a new racer or someone that runs a limited schedule please let me know.

Clifton

Does that mean we ALL are going to get a call? Wow!


Todd, you are brave man but I suggest you get a better fire suit and a larger extinguisher. Let us know if there is anything we can do to help out.

donovan
07-12-2006, 10:38 AM
I got the call to the principals office last night... :D

I was pleased with the exchange and look forward to TWS with NASA TX. I think everyone will feel much better after they get the call.

I also had a brief conversation with TC to reassure that I(we) want him to stay on board as our Director.

David D. 8)

Waco Racer
07-12-2006, 11:15 AM
Does that mean we ALL are going to get a call? Wow!


Todd, you are brave man but I suggest you get a better fire suit and a larger extinguisher. Let us know if there is anything we can do to help out.

Yes, ALL of you will get a call.

I hope that we can all work together to get rid of the "us" vs. "them" that seems to be present in this group. I had hoped that my actions so far this year would have helped change that. There is no competitive attitude or struggle for power felt toward this group from NASA Texas. There should be one goal for both - engage in great racing events. I have not held back information from anyone. I do not seek out people individully every time I get a new tidbit, I have a job to do. But, I am available most of the time. People make choices, good or bad, but to make assuptions based on limited information is dangerous.

Lewis Tanner
07-12-2006, 03:07 PM
And now for some much needed comic relief...

Nick
07-12-2006, 04:31 PM
Yes, ALL of you will get a call.


Please email me at ginny_nick@swbell.net
My phone has been down for a couple weeks.

jeffburch
07-12-2006, 06:35 PM
Yes, ALL of you will get a call.


Please email me at ginny_nick@swbell.net
My phone has been down for a couple weeks.
Uhh, what?
How is that? Copper theives again?

jb

CBurt Go
07-12-2006, 10:07 PM
Please email me at ginny_nick@swbell.net
My phone has been down for a couple weeks.
Uhh, what?
How is that? Copper theives again?

jb

Which is even funnier considering who he works for.

Racebrat
07-12-2006, 10:25 PM
Evening Gentlemen-

I apologize for my tardiness in getting involved in this but I just gained access today.

I don't have a whole lot to add to what Clifton has already stated. I was not at Hallett and cannot say anything about the events that happened there.

I don't know very many of you very well and that may work in my favor this time. I'd like to help mend the fences. I would be more than happy to come to the meeting at TWS and answer questions, if you want me there. I can't offer much, as I back up Clifton, but I do promise to listen to what you, the racer, has to say to try to get everything worked out.

Please let me know if I can do anything to help or if you have enough NASA TX officials involved. I understand the "too many chiefs not enough indians" thing very well; remember, I left the "other" sanctioning body for NASA because of that. If I can help, let me know, if you want me out of it, let me know that too. I'll do what I can.

Adrian

Todd Covini
07-12-2006, 10:31 PM
Adrian,
You, Clifton, Jay, Shannon and anyone else is always welcome. We've always had an open invite to our annual banquets and these type of get togethers to build and grow the series.

-=- Todd

jeffburch
07-13-2006, 07:53 AM
This just jumped the shark!

Peace, out.

jb

gt40
07-13-2006, 08:23 AM
Also, the smartass remarks about Jay sticking his nose where it didn't belong are all a buch of CRAP. :x It is my understanding (please correct me if I'm wrong :? ) that he was asked to help clarify some issues due to the absence of a director.Mark that down to a communications failure. If its well-known that Jay resigned his position as a NASA official, and he's going to be acting in the role of an official afterwards, then WE NEED TO KNOW ABOUT IT BEFOREHAND!

Isn't that why we have a driver's meeting first thing in the morning? To give NASA TX an opportunity to let us know about stuff like this?

The same thing can be said for the new impound procedure, and new tech procedure (doing random spot checks in the pits and in impound.)

Nick
07-13-2006, 09:15 AM
Please email me at ginny_nick@swbell.net
My phone has been down for a couple weeks.
Uhh, what?
How is that? Copper theives again?

jb

Which is even funnier considering who he works for.

You must have seen that on the news. :)
Let me clarify.
My home phone hasn't been connected for a couple years.
Mobile phone insurance is a scam. :roll:

donovan
07-13-2006, 09:49 AM
Also, the smartass remarks about Jay sticking his nose where it didn't belong are all a bunch of CRAP. :x It is my understanding (please correct me if I'm wrong :? ) that he was asked to help clarify some issues due to the absence of a director.

We had two directors present; during the Saturday morning meeting they were appointed as acting directors for the weekend to help with issues just as we had.

As for Jay getting involved, I know he still has a stake in the ownership of NASA Texas and has a right as an owner to do what he needs to do to run his business.

It all comes back to communication, consistency and expectations. With all that said, I don’t have an issue with Jay helping out as long as we know what’s going on. Myself and the others have an issue with the lack of communication and lack of consistency. It’s a common theme in almost all the post if you really read them.

The issue most people have is the lack of consistency with NASA Texas. We were told months ago that Jay had steeped down and was just a racer and don’t ask him questions unless it was racer to racer, go to Shannon or another official for NASA Texas issues.

Fast-forward to Hallett, Jay is there in a more official capacity, assisting tech and helping. Well again, it’s his business and I understand that point, but it kind of went against their “Jay has stepped down and is now a racer” statement.

It all would have been much better handled if at the beginning of the weekend we heard a statement like
“We are short handed with staff for this event so Jay is stepping in, so expect him to be helping out with Tech, Grid and other duties as we need throughout the weekend”

I don't think there have been any "smart ass" remarks, if you think otherwise, maybe you are reading to much into the messages.

NASA TX is working on all these issues and I look forward to TWS, and plan on helping them in any way I can.

David D.

GlennCMC70
07-13-2006, 10:23 AM
good post David. lets stop assuming the worst of each and every comment. we made it clear that we need communication. lets take time and see where this goes.
lets now focus on "who's going to be @ TWS" and who needs help to get their cars ready if they are not already.
lets talk about race format (20, 30, 40?). lets talk about friday drop off fee's. theres no reason for this from a track that charges $15K rental fee. no other track charges near that and they dont charge a friday fee. they should understand the risks of theft @ hotels and allow us to protect our stuff better.
lets talk about the saturday night dinner @ Wings & More, who's gonna step up a replace Adam, topics for Nationals, etc.... :)

AllZWay
07-13-2006, 11:46 AM
If we are going to talk about positives... My project CMC car arrives tomorrow at LAW Motorsports for the cage install . :whoohoo

All this negative stuff was pretty scary to a new guy and if I wasn't this far into the project, I doubt I would have built it right now and stayed playing in the dirt another year or so.

Good to hear some positive talk for a change.

michaelmosty
07-13-2006, 12:29 PM
If we are going to talk about positives... My project CMC car arrives tomorrow at LAW Motorsports for the cage install . :whoohoo



Awesome news!!! That gives you plenty of time for TWS? :wink:

AI#97
07-13-2006, 12:59 PM
lets now focus on "who's going to be @ TWS" and who needs help to get their cars ready if they are not already.


Well, my junk is still in pieces in the garage and I hope to have it running by Sunday night....so if anyone wants to learn about a mod motor, and isn't an AI driver... :wink: you are more than welcomed to come over and help button up the car.

I would prefer 2 20's and a 40 minute race on Sunday....call me crazy but I am sure we can do it...if not, I am cool with 4 20's or let's get crazy and do a 30 then a 20 each day with the 30 being the Toyo race!

As for notice about "pit inspections" and the new impound....it was discussed at the last event at Cresson in the driver's meeting and any time I went to the impound/tech area. It was mentioned casually with the premise that it "will be coming" but there was no firm date as to when it would start. I knew about it and expected it...maybe the execution was a little slow and short possibly because they were shorthanded or were working out the bugs still. If anything, I think the attendance both on the racer's part and the staff's part goes to show Hallet will likely fall off our schedule next year. I know after having to pit in gravel and carrying a good portion of it back in my trailer and car....I won't be headed there any time soon.

Glad to see the positive turn for this stuff...........

AllZWay
07-13-2006, 01:18 PM
If we are going to talk about positives... My project CMC car arrives tomorrow at LAW Motorsports for the cage install . :whoohoo



Awesome news!!! That gives you plenty of time for TWS? :wink:

No unfortunately I will be short of time by probably a couple of weeks. There is a family vacation scheduled next week, so shortens my available time considerably.

It will be ready for MSRH for sure though.

James