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marshall_mosty
01-01-2012, 12:10 PM
Everyone,
I’m posting this to document the conversion of standard SN-95 ABS from my FOX Mustang over to the new “oh my God” Ford Racing ABS…

The first thing to consider is the location and mounting of the ABS unit itself. My SN95 ABS unit is/was in the passenger floorboard. Therefore, I already had all the lines (2 supply and 3 outlet) run around the car.

The stock HCU bracket could be easily manipulated to mount 2 points to the floorboard and I built a simple spacer to mount the third point. The mount has plenty of vibration isolation, so you can grab and shake the HCU in the mount. This gave me good feelings that vibration from the car during a race would not cause excessive issues with the HCU and ABS electronics.

The stock supply lines and outlet lines were “close enough” to just cut and flare for a simple union fitting. For the new lines going into the HCU, I just purchased AutoZone double flare 3/16 line. This was good for 2 of the 6 lines, but the other four required that line, but a M12 conversion nut to be purchased. You can also get these at AutoZone, etc. I also removed the rear prop valve, as the FR500 unit does that on it’s own. I did have to run a second rear line, as the S-197 system is a 4 channel and the SN95 is a 3 channel system. This consisted of just another few sections of 3/16 line running parallel to the original rear line.

If you want to flip flop back and forth between ABS/no ABS, install the prop valve in the rear supply line BEFORE the HCU. That would allow you to run wide open (no pressure drop) for ABS function, or reduce the pressure if the ABS is disabled. I chose not to do this, as I’m going to “set it and forget it”.

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/379035_2117271430742_439381537_n.jpg?oh=8d7af781ee efef46d2807701c8c4a821&oe=56B8972A

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/390563_2117271830752_630985326_n.jpg?oh=e73ad33c70 0009a03568e3c5c8ccce5f&oe=56BAACE1

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/379802_2117271950755_953707285_n.jpg?oh=eca02d1418 192feb2d695b349b35b707&oe=5684A680
The only harness you need to source from a junk yard is the ABS plug.

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/393883_2117292591271_1220302264_n.jpg?oh=8c4a96350 3172796517c94696560cb36&oe=56B1ED19
Here is the plumbing layout for the HCU

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/378156_2117304271563_987192545_n.jpg?oh=905903892e 15313aeb2eb09c0e18ee37&oe=5684C2EC
Here is the wiring diagram. For older cars, I just ignored the PCM portions.

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/381654_2173501756465_44503456_n.jpg?oh=676219475a9 d122197f525d6ffc96617&oe=56C5A9BE
The brake position switch can be made from a 5 pole 30A relay.

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/390286_2117304591571_2009259991_n.jpg?oh=c9cd39427 8b2e50eb0b020e780d0c645&oe=56B29FDA
The speed sensor wire colors from the SN95 system match this diagram, so that is pretty nice…


I don’t have any pictures of the wheel speed sensor mounting, but it’s a simple redrill/tap for the new clocking on the S-197 sensors. The SN95 were just a magnet pole sticking out, so there was no orientation required. To drill/tap the rear caliper brackets, I found it easier to just remove the axles from the car and remove the caliper mounting plates from the axle and drill on a drill press.

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/391098_2201051045180_207344146_n.jpg?oh=51cfbcb10d 2f379418d440d137b6cfc9&oe=56CFE356
The front spindles on my car didn’t want to come off easily, so I drilled by hand on the car. Not the easiest, but worked fine.

All in all, I would put the installation difficulty at a 6 out of 10. Not super difficult, but time consuming to lay out in your head and then it’s just time… Having a welder, drill press, and overall shop tools was nice, but you could probably get away without them.

I’d say that since I had ABS on the car already, this entire conversion (not counting my time) was about $1100 in parts

$525 HCU
$50 ABS harness
$125 wheel speed sensors
$260 FR ABS Module
$25 Brake Fluid
$75 Brake Line and fittings
$25 Diff fluid and gasket
$15 5 pole relay with harness


The only thing I haven’t addressed at this point is the diagnostic port (Module Communications Network) section 14-2 on the diagram. I still need to do research on how to wire an OBDII port to these wires so I can trouble shoot the system.



Here is the parts list of what you will need to buy…

GT500 HCU
7R3Z-2C215-C

ABS Module
You want the "M-2353-A" sensor. The -A part is the FR500S module. The -B and -C are the same module for the new Boss cars, just with or without the bracket. I would guess the tune is for Pirelli slicks.
http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/search.asp?q=2353

Wheel Speed Sensors
BRAB-290 (rear)
BRAB-291 (front)
http://www.autopartstomorrow.com/part_numbers/336251-rear-whl-abs-sensor
This is the cheapest place I could find and it was free shipping. They are Motorcraft parts.
These sensors plug into the stock SN95 plugs and are approximately the same length as the SN95 harnesses, so you shouldn't have to manipulate the body harness.

RichardP
01-01-2012, 06:02 PM
Wait, you had to flare brake lines to make this work? See, AI has just gone over the top. Next thing you know people are going to move suspension pickup points around and other things that might get your hands dirty. I'd much rather spend $90k for a new car than have to spend thousands making an old car better... ...sigh...


I'm interested to see how this works. I'm not afraid of the swap/fabrication that you've done so far. (Well, I'm a little afraid of having to make all those splices you made not leak.) I almost pulled the trigger on the parts a while back. I'm afraid of what it might take to get the computer happy with the setup so that it works. Got my fingers crossed for you. Anxiously waiting for a track update...


Richard P.

marshall_mosty
01-01-2012, 07:21 PM
Richard,
I know about getting my hands dirty. I've had to wash them a few times... Where is this series headed when you have to get your hands dirty to stay competitive... Geesh!

I have a few single flares on the old setup and they have been durable , so I'm hoping I will have the same luck with these. I just can't see spending $300 on a double flaring tool.

I should be at the track in two weeks to test and I will let you know how it goes.

GlennCMC70
01-01-2012, 08:23 PM
Double flare tools can be had for way less than $100. I think I paid Around $20 for mine.
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/PFM0/W80670.oap?ck=Search_flare+tool_-1_1753&keyword=flare+tool

ShadowBolt
01-02-2012, 09:16 AM
Double flare tools can be had for way less than $100. I think I paid Around $20 for mine.
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/PFM0/W80670.oap?ck=Search_flare+tool_-1_1753&keyword=flare+tool

I have one that is made by KD that I bought over 25 years ago that works perfect. I doubt I paid over $20.00 for it. If you want I will look for it and bring it to MSRH?

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&cp=23&gs_id=27&xhr=t&rlz=1W1GGLS_enUS407&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&biw=1024&bih=563&wrapid=tljp1325516581640028&q=kd+double+flaring+tool&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=10252559565020482202&sa=X&ei=l8cBT_eIPMv4sQKEit23AQ&sqi=2&ved=0CFUQ8wIwAA#

JJ

marshall_mosty
01-02-2012, 10:49 AM
I have one that is made by KD that I bought over 25 years ago that works perfect. I doubt I paid over $20.00 for it. If you want I will look for it and bring it to MSRH?

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&cp=23&gs_id=27&xhr=t&rlz=1W1GGLS_enUS407&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&biw=1024&bih=563&wrapid=tljp1325516581640028&q=kd+double+flaring+tool&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=10252559565020482202&sa=X&ei=l8cBT_eIPMv4sQKEit23AQ&sqi=2&ved=0CFUQ8wIwAA#

JJ

Jerry,
That would be great. Then I can redo the HCU lines with double flares.

Todd Covini
01-03-2012, 06:56 PM
Great to see some good old fashioned Texas ingenuity!!!

marshall_mosty
01-15-2012, 10:59 PM
Okay folks, I'm back from testing. The day was cold (55-60-deg), so there wasn't enough heat in the track to get the tires up to good temp, so no track records fell today. I was approx 2 seconds off my lap record, but my brother (CMC driver) was also off pace an equivalent amount, so I figure we were still at "qualifying" lap speed. The ABS system works as designed and here are my thoughts:

Initial bite:
Much more agressive than the SN95 unit. It felt like I was going to suck the fillings out of my teeth. Very nice.

Feel "in" the ABS:
This was very different from the SN95 unit. The car "hunted" around quite a bit, especially the rear two channels. After watching years of Continental Tire and Koni Challenge and seeing the cars be very twitchy under braking, I now understand what they are feeling.

Release:
Well, this is an area that you have to be careful with. If you aren't too deep into the ABS, it isn't too bad, but if you are heavy into the unit, the release is very abrubt and will upset the rear of the car (I looped it once under heaving braking to see what would happen). I think that a pad with a little softer release characteristics may help out.

Overall Impression
This will take a bit of time to "learn" the characteristics of the system. I'm not 100% convinced that it's a "class killer", however I will need to evaluate again in the rain. The local track I used (Motorsports Ranch - Cresson) is a HIGHLY polished ashphalt track that is down right "ice rink" in the rain, so I can figure out how it works under "extreme" conditions... more to come on that point.

All in all, I had approx a little over an hour of track time today so there is a bunch more that still needs to be worked out for me to utilize the system 100%. Also, this was my first time on track since early October, so I was shaking off the cobwebs a bit myself...


A note on my setup:
'89 Hatchback
316/332 HP/TQ
3100lbs
Splitter/Wing
StopTech ST40 13" with PFC01's (Front)
Stock GT Varga 1-piston with PFC97's (Rear)
425lb front coil overs
325lb rear coil overs
SN95 V6 front bar (endlinks almost completely loose)
No rear bar
Maximum Motorsports K-Member, Foward Offset FCA's (SN95 length)
Racecraft 2" drop spindles
Griggs Torque Arm/Panhard Bar

MPHoldway
01-19-2012, 10:50 AM
Good feedback Marshall...thanks for all the details and keeping things as transparent as possible.

Looking forward to seeing how the new rule set plays out this season. With all the different setup options in AI now it should make for a pretty good chess match of different cars being faster in different places on track but hopefully ending up with close lap times and race wins credited more to the driver than the car.

Edit - this is Casey. Forgot I was logged in on Mindy's computer.

marshall_mosty
01-19-2012, 11:48 AM
Casey,
I think it will definately mix things up. I've also added ballast in a different location (80lbs under the car on both sides = 160lbs) instead of having 120lbs on the floorboard, so I'm overweight (again) and didn't retune for it. It will be hard for me to tell true differences in the system until I get back to the proper power/weight.

I'm excited to see how it is going to work out.

MPHoldway
01-19-2012, 09:13 PM
Interesting idea putting the ballast under the car....I like it! Never occurred to me but the lower the better right? Just watch out for those curbs ;)

Running no ABS and having a passenger seat now essentially lets me pull all the ballast out and add 10hp. Curious to see how that changes the balance of the car though. It "felt" better when I first put the ballast in for ECR but I made a few other changes at the same time so who knows? Should be amusing to see us all scratching our heads and thrashing around to dial things in those first few sessions :)

Edit - dammit, keep forgetting which computer I'm using. This is Casey, not Mindy.

GlennCMC70
01-19-2012, 09:53 PM
I have never liked the idea of balast under the car. If it comes unbolted while under the car, it puts your fellow racers at risk. If it comes unbolted while inside the car it really only puts you at risk. And since you are the one who is likely at fault for the poor install, you should be the one at risk instead of those who had nothing to do w/ the install at all.

That said - I'll be very strick w/ ballast installed under the car.

Rob Liebbe
01-20-2012, 08:31 AM
I have never liked the idea of balast under the car. If it comes unbolted while under the car, it puts your fellow racers at risk. If it comes unbolted while inside the car it really only puts you at risk. And since you are the one who is likely at fault for the poor install, you should be the one at risk instead of those who had nothing to do w/ the install at all.

That said - I'll be very strick w/ ballast installed under the car.

Yeah a twenty pound block of steel coming through the windshield would suck. But so did a 3000 pound block of Camaro come to think about it.

Make sure undercar ballast is SECURELY restrained, like welded, bolts can break, even really big ones.

marshall_mosty
01-20-2012, 11:04 AM
Guys,
There are two 5/8" grade 8 bolts holding four 20# plates. I have this setup on both sides of the car. There is a 0.100" steel backing plate welded to the inside of the car and the bolt head/washer combo is welded to that. I have nylock nuts, loctite, and torque seal on the nuts holding the ballast plates, so I can use the torque seal to easily do a visual for tightness. I'll invite anyone to crawl under the car and bitch...

If I get a bunch of backlash, I can add a "ballast safety loop" out of steel strap, welded to the car. This ballast, for me at least, will be considered permanent because it was a bitch to install.


I DID try to convince the AI Directors to allow me to build a ballast "tub" that would fit through a hole in the floor, so the ballast would be contained. The directors didn't like the idea and thought bolting it under the car would be fine.

David Love AI27
01-20-2012, 11:49 AM
I'll invite anyone to crawl under the car and bitch...

Be careful the next time you let the car down... never know who you might find under there

michaelmosty
01-20-2012, 05:23 PM
Did Jeremy drill your ballast plates??? :^0

marshall_mosty
01-21-2012, 01:15 PM
I drilled the plates, by Jeremy was trying to give me advise. I acted like I couldn't hear him... :)

mitchntx
01-21-2012, 05:42 PM
Guys,
There are two 5/8" grade 8 bolts holding four 20# plates. I have this setup on both sides of the car. There is a 0.100" steel backing plate welded to the inside of the car and the bolt head/washer combo is welded to that. I have nylock nuts, loctite, and torque seal on the nuts holding the ballast plates, so I can use the torque seal to easily do a visual for tightness. I'll invite anyone to crawl under the car and bitch...

If I get a bunch of backlash, I can add a "ballast safety loop" out of steel strap, welded to the car. This ballast, for me at least, will be considered permanent because it was a bitch to install.


I DID try to convince the AI Directors to allow me to build a ballast "tub" that would fit through a hole in the floor, so the ballast would be contained. The directors didn't like the idea and thought bolting it under the car would be fine.

I welded a 6x6 piece of 1/8" steel on the inside of the car as backing plate, drilled a hole and used it as a spintech muffler mount.
The weight of the muffler ripped the sheet metal where the outer edges of my backing plate was attached.

I can only imagine what 80lbs of steel is going to do to 20g sheet metal.

Oh wait ... this is a Mosty car. You guys are used to shit falling off ... :o

marshall_mosty
01-22-2012, 01:12 AM
I welded a 6x6 piece of 1/8" steel on the inside of the car as backing plate, drilled a hole and used it as a spintech muffler mount.
The weight of the muffler ripped the sheet metal where the outer edges of my backing plate was attached.

I can only imagine what 80lbs of steel is going to do to 20g sheet metal.

Oh wait ... this is a Mosty car. You guys are used to shit falling off ... :o

Not quite sure how to take that, but I will take it in jest and just put this is a "watch item" for each weekend...

mitchntx
01-23-2012, 09:31 AM
Not quite sure how to take that, but I will take it in jest and just put this is a "watch item" for each weekend...

My - my ... sensitive bunch aren't we? :p
Take it for what it's worth.

But also realize, you were warned of how reckless that decision is based not upon assumptions, but rather real lessons learned.
It opens you up to some serious liability if that chunk of steel goes through some one's windshield or worse.
At 120 mph, if it comes off, I bet it has enough inertia to get in the pits at TWS ... you know, where families are watching.

You are an engineer and a smart one, at that. Do a risk/reward analysis.

Rob Liebbe
01-23-2012, 09:52 AM
The more I think about undercar ballast, the more I worry about it. Even if Marshall does a good job with it (I'll reserve my judgement until I see it), that doesn't mean that the next guy to do it will do it properly.

marshall_mosty
01-23-2012, 10:51 AM
Guys,
I get it.. I'll review the installation and see if any tweaks are necessary... I wanted to build the box, but the other director's said "no". There is a max of 3" tall in the car and to spread 300lbs around would take a BUNCH of floor space.

Alien
01-23-2012, 11:17 AM
Interesting idea putting the ballast under the car....I like it! Never occurred to me but the lower the better right? Just watch out for those curbs ;)


Interesting that I thought this was only allowed in AI and not CMC. But looking at the CMC rules again, there isn't anything specifically against it.

RichardP
01-23-2012, 11:34 AM
There is a max of 3" tall in the car and to spread 300lbs around would take a BUNCH of floor space.


352 square inches in steel (roughly 19" x 19" if square)
244 square inches in lead (roughly 16" x 16" if square)


Less power seems like a better idea for Toyos (except at TWS)...

Richard P.

mitchntx
01-23-2012, 11:59 AM
Guys,
I get it..


I for one wasn't trying to "beat you up" about it. So don't take it that I was.

Running wide at T7 at Hallett will drag that "skid plate" over those big rumble strips.
If it doesn't rip it off the car, it's certainly tear up the concrete.

I was following Matt White through there, he pushed wide, straddled the strip and the flying debris was unbelievable.
BIG chunks of concrete ...

I straddled Michael's exhaust last year and it put a huge crease in my K-Member and tried to punch a hole in the rear floor pan.

I'm sure James has seen his share of car parts come through the windshield of his dirt car.

marshall_mosty
01-23-2012, 12:45 PM
These plates are ABOVE the exhaust, in the rear seat pockets, forward of where the upper control arms used to mount. There is NO way I would ever drag these on the ground. There is at least 10" between the ground and the underside of the plates. This could never be considered anywhere close to a skid plate.

I figured spreading out 80lbs on each side of the car was the "safer" thing than 300# all in one place. Again, four 20# plates per side, each 10"x16"x0.25 thick.


I'm not taking any of this as a personal attack. I understand that folks are concerned with safety (theirs and others).

cjlmlml
01-23-2012, 01:05 PM
I straddled Michael's exhaust last year and it put a huge crease in my K-Member and tried to punch a hole in the rear floor pan.
.



Didnt want to know that

RichardP
01-23-2012, 02:11 PM
There is at least 10" between the ground and the underside of the plates. This could never be considered anywhere close to a skid plate.


Sounds like you didn't optimize their location very well then... :-)


Richard P.

marshall_mosty
01-23-2012, 03:28 PM
Sounds like you didn't optimize their location very well then... :-)
Richard P.
That's as good as my Texas Tech engineering degree could get me for right now... There is always time for relocation later.

RichardP
01-23-2012, 04:16 PM
That's as good as my Texas Tech engineering degree could get me for right now...

I wouldn't advertise that too loudly. You used that degree to design tie rod ends... :-)


Richard P.

mitchntx
01-23-2012, 05:21 PM
These plates are ABOVE the exhaust, in the rear seat pockets, forward of where the upper control arms used to mount. There is NO way I would ever drag these on the ground. There is at least 10" between the ground and the underside of the plates. This could never be considered anywhere close to a skid plate.

I figured spreading out 80lbs on each side of the car was the "safer" thing than 300# all in one place. Again, four 20# plates per side, each 10"x16"x0.25 thick.


I'm not taking any of this as a personal attack. I understand that folks are concerned with safety (theirs and others).


I see Glenn also made a comment about the location ... not necessarily discouragnig it, but ....

I feel relatively confident in saying had someone other than me or Glenn pointed it out, the response would have been something like "Wow ... never considered that."

michaelmosty
01-23-2012, 06:17 PM
I see Glenn also made a comment about the location ... not necessarily discouragnig it, but ....

I feel relatively confident in saying had someone other than me or Glenn pointed it out, the response would have been something like "Wow ... never considered that."
Marshall mentioned this was "considered" before as he talked to the directors about a ballast box that got shot down. Are we missing something or are you? Do you think every comment made to you or Glenn is a personal attack?

marshall_mosty
01-23-2012, 06:40 PM
I wouldn't advertise that too loudly. You used that degree to design tie rod ends... :-)

Richard P.
Very true... ZING! That's why I'm in management now... :)

marshall_mosty
01-23-2012, 07:08 PM
I welded a 6x6 piece of 1/8" steel on the inside of the car as backing plate, drilled a hole and used it as a spintech muffler mount.
The weight of the muffler ripped the sheet metal where the outer edges of my backing plate was attached...
No worries mitch, Ford's sheet metal is much stronger (read thinner and lighter) than GM's. That's why you guys have such a hard time <yawn> getting down to minimum weight.

I'm suprised, as the CCR requires LESS mounting plate for a roll cage which will be supporting the entire weight of the car (plus crash forces) on the same basic patch of sheet metal, but my 80# of lead installed with bolts capable of holding 300# in shear is a HUGE concern. The nuts are nylock, installed with locktite, and as previously mentioned, have torque seal for easy inspection by me (or anyone else who wants to peek).

And as far as shit falling off, that's selective weight shedding for optimum handling mid-race. Kinda like losing a hood and taking out your back glass at Nat's, oh wait, that must have been weak GM sheetmetal giving away again.

I guess it's time for everyone to go "A-Team" and weld armor all over are cars to contain all the stuff that's going to fall off because it's held on with bolts....


That's why I love this group... Endless prospective, even through some really funky glasses...

mitchntx
01-23-2012, 07:32 PM
Marshall mentioned this was "considered" before as he talked to the directors about a ballast box that got shot down. Are we missing something or are you? Do you think every comment made to you or Glenn is a personal attack?

My - My the Championship twins are sensitive ... ;)

How was my pointing out my experience, Marshall's engineering inadequacies and components falling off your car and damaging mine a personal attack on me?
I was merely pointing out facts and lesson's learned.


But, I see I'm causing problems. So, I'll go away again. There are pigs to shoot at and miss.

Have a great and safe 2012 season, doods!

michaelmosty
01-23-2012, 07:44 PM
Nothing I ever said was personal but apparently you are a little too sensative on this subject. You are the one making it personal.

I would appreciate you not use this forum to make personal attacks at anyone. If you feel WE need to talk, my number is 972-897-1424.

marshall_mosty
01-23-2012, 07:48 PM
...my pointing out my experience, Marshall's engineering inadequacies...
Now I do take THAT as a personal attack... I had a part designed which failed during a race with no damage to my car or others as a result. I made a mistake (I'm sure you've never made one, or would be able to admit it), but I wouldn't call my engineering skills inadequate, nor would I ever make any comment publicly to anyone that challenged their schooling or intellegence in general... what you said was just plain uncalled for and inexcusable...

Richard pointed it out in a joking fashion... There is a difference and you obviously don't know the difference.

I'm done. See you guys in a few days. Hopefully my shit doesn't fall apart and kill anyone. I'd hate to think my inadequacies injured anyone...

cjlmlml
01-27-2012, 11:58 AM
Thread is now open, I dont know which of the girls closed it, This thread is for Ford ABS, I am sure others are interested in that topic, I know I am. Keep updating Marshall, or start another Ford Update ABS thread.

K Shaw
02-01-2012, 04:20 PM
When I pee it smells like coffee.

kyle

marshall_mosty
02-01-2012, 05:18 PM
Guess we are back in business.... Okay, back on topic.

The FR ABS was "interesting" this weekend. With StopTech's and GT stock rear calipers using PFC01 and PFC97 front/rear, there is WAY too much rear bias. Under trail braking, the back wanted to rotate VERY badly under release. I had to be very consious of my technique. I'm going to install an in-line bias adjuster BEFORE the HCU on the rear brake supply line. That "should" limit the line pressure and provide less rear "bite".

I'll update again around MSR-C time. I plan on testing at least once since the motor is now hurt and need of TLC... (see the "What Happened?" thread).

GlennCMC70
02-01-2012, 05:50 PM
Why not behind all the ABS parts? Or is it a dual rear line set-up w/ this ABS?
Is there no F/R bias'ing taking place in the ABS itself? I would assume so since the car reacted the way it did after the install.
Would the better solution be to bias valves behind the ABS and dual pressure guages to keep them equal?

marshall_mosty
02-01-2012, 07:03 PM
Glenn,
The unit does handle F/R split, but was based around the S197 caliper volumes. Mine are a bit off from the stock system.

It is a 4-channel system, so it's either 1 in-line before the HCU, or dualadjusters like you suggested with guages.

GlennCMC70
02-01-2012, 07:42 PM
Would the S-197 calipers be a simple bolt-on to your car?

marshall_mosty
02-02-2012, 08:53 AM
Would the S-197 calipers be a simple bolt-on to your car?
From my discussions with other folks, no... unfortunately.

BlueFirePony
02-02-2012, 01:51 PM
Guess we are back in business.... Okay, back on topic.The FR ABS was "interesting" this weekend. With StopTech's and GT stock rear calipers using PFC01 and PFC97 front/rear, there is WAY too much rear bias. Under trail braking, the back wanted to rotate VERY badly under release. I had to be very consious of my technique. I'm going to install an in-line bias adjuster BEFORE the HCU on the rear brake supply line. That "should" limit the line pressure and provide less rear "bite".I'll update again around MSR-C time. I plan on testing at least once since the motor is now hurt and need of TLC... (see the "What Happened?" thread).fwiw the only time I had issue with the car wanting to rotate more than normal was one time I went very late into braking at TWS and came off very abruptly...totally driver error. I found the car very very compliant under breaking....I really felt comfortable ...right up until...:(btw...the pads have been shipped from the mfr's US QA team to the engineers in Germany for more detailed investigation....I'll keep you posted.

marshall_mosty
02-02-2012, 03:44 PM
All,
I was also told that the rear left tire was smoking under braking, so the ABS was having some issues getting the bias right. I think the prop valve will help that out, but from the driver's seat with data aq, it will be damn difficult to dial out just the right amount of rear brake (since axle hop is not an issue on FOX's).

BlueFirePony
02-02-2012, 11:11 PM
...I found the car very very compliant under breaking..now that's funny right there...I don't care who you are...