Nationals

[Suck fumes]

Already 10 spec iron and 10 CMC cars signed up. Should be a blast at Atlanta!

[smitty328]

And 26 AI!

[Suck fumes]

I hope they split up the classes somehow cause that's going to be a double yellow race after turn one with that many fast cars. And I really hope they don't do those stupid standing starts either.

[kbrewmr2]

I wouldn't rule out standing starts yet if I were you. Start sending nice polite emails to whoever the AI National Director is and also I'd try and see if you can figure out who the race director for that group will be ahead of time and also ask them nicely & politely. Never too early to lobby.... Ditto with the split groups but that's probably going to be a tougher road to go down towards any meaningful change as often hands end up getting tied by the schedule, only so much time in the days and it's now a more compressed schedule (3 day event versus 4).

If there are standing starts y'all will get lined up starting pretty close to the turn-in point for T1, so that corner won't be the one where I'd expect a pile-up from a standing start. Isn't it usually T3 where things seem to go T.U. on the 1st lap more often anyway? Usually someone hops too much curb, spins, and everyone starts swarming around them or jumping over to the motorcyle cut-through section of track and it's a bit chaotic merging back but not awful (imle).

Nationals is (supposed to be anyway) the best of the best so I wouldn't predict what will happen based solely alone on just regional level races with a wider mix of talent, car prep, etc. negative nancy ;)

[Suck fumes]

Nationals is not always the best of the best as anyone is allowed to go if they participate in 5 events. There is no "invite" from point standings like with SCCA. So I will nicely request some things and hope for the best.

[JMR81]

Maybe they could let AIX and AI run as a group and SI and CMC run as a group. Personally we would rather be gridded based on qualifying times and if that means we are in with the AI cars ,so be it. We don't really care one way or the other on standing starts, but don't really care to much for the inverts.

[kbrewmr2]

Nationals is not always the best of the best as anyone is allowed to go if they participate in 5 events. There is no "invite" from point standings like with SCCA. So I will nicely request some things and hope for the best.
how many people with 5 races that suck are actually going to spend that much money to go get their asses kicked worse than would happen regionally? Really??

There's upsides and downsides to each way to skin a cat though.

[JMR81]

I think you would be surprised at how many would go just to be part of a large scale event.

[kbrewmr2]

I think you would be surprised at how many would go just to be part of a large scale event.
Probably the same sort of people that would cherry-pick their way into a decent enough points position (or whatever other qualifying route) to get an invite. Shurg.

Anywho as a participant in '06, '07, and '09 I really didn't spot any/many poor efforts. Certianly none that were memorable anyway.

[Suck fumes]

Yah if AI and AIX were were in a separate group that would be perfect!

[BryanL]

how many people with 5 races that suck are actually going to spend that much money to go get their asses kicked worse than would happen regionally? Really??

There's upsides and downsides to each way to skin a cat though.

Raises Hand. Had my car not been totaled this year I would have made the trip to Nationals and I haven't had a top 3 finish in 5 years I bet. Though I might have a better shot at a top 3 at Nationals rather than a regional. I would have bet that I finished higher at Nat's than I do in most races in Texas, too. I mean why do I go to the expense of doing the regionals just to have the 55 fly by me? There are plenty of people that go to Nats. that aren't even front runners in there region-or maybe they are front runners in a weak region.

[kbrewmr2]

you can keep up with the pack and aren't dangerously unaware of what's going on (like being lapped by AIX/AI if/when that happens). You're not the sorta guy they're complaining about. I think.....

[Fbody383]

you... aren't dangerously unaware of what's going on... Only guy to ever have a building sneak up on him.

[Suck fumes]

That's why I think a lot of people like nationals cause the Dyno is right there to keep everyone honest. That's why I've always enjoyed going. Plus having somewhat of a real tech inspection is a plus also.

PS... The 55 is just a fast driver, and he's put some good work into the car over the past few months also so don't imply something unless you got proof to back it up.

[kbrewmr2]

Only guy to ever have a building sneak up on him.

touche

[smitty328]

I hope they split up the classes somehow cause that's going to be a double yellow race after turn one with that many fast cars. And I really hope they don't do those stupid standing starts either.

It's not like you are going to hit an AI car in turn 1 because the guy sucks at standing starts. Oh wait... nevermind.

[AI#97]

Anywho as a participant in '06, '07, and '09 I really didn't spot any/many poor efforts. Certianly none that were memorable anyway.

You obviously haven't run AI at nationals then.... I can recall at least 4 events that were a joke.

Be sure to rally and vote as a group in the first AI drivers meeting against standing starts. We voted against them in 08 and 09 and got our wish. Nationally competitive AI cars all have tiny clutches that breed stalls and accidents. Just make sure the rules for pace up to green on a rolling start are voiced and ENFORCED and the rolling start should be fine.

edited for additional positive information.

[smitty328]

I think you would be surprised at how many would go just to be part of a large scale event.


Raises Hand. Had my car not been totaled this year I would have made the trip to Nationals and I haven't had a top 3 finish in 5 years I bet. Though I might have a better shot at a top 3 at Nationals rather than a regional. I would have bet that I finished higher at Nat's than I do in most races in Texas, too. I mean why do I go to the expense of doing the regionals just to have the 55 fly by me? There are plenty of people that go to Nats. that aren't even front runners in there region-or maybe they are front runners in a weak region.

When I went to Nationals in Mid Ohio I had no business going and I new it, I wanted to participate in THE large scale event.

My goal was to compete and not screw up anyone's race. I decided before I left, if I can finish in the top 15 I would be VERY happy.

I accomplished my goal, had a blast and learned a ton! Nationals is a lot of fun, but it's expensive (especially the way I did it). If you are confident in your driving abilities and good with dealing with faster traffic then pack up your car and come hang out with the Texas group in Atlanta.

[Suck fumes]

When we get there we can all gather and sign a petition against standing starts haha. I was the only one who raised my hand last year against it so I had to suck it up and do it. This year I would prefer not to do it. It will be safer and probably a lot smoother as far as less problems.

[ShadowBolt]

PS... The 55 is just a fast driver, and he's put some good work into the car over the past few months also so don't imply something unless you got proof to back it up.

Aaron,

You have no way of knowing this and I appreciate the kind words but BL and I are good friends and we just screw with each other on the forum. Oh and don't tell him about the hidden flip chip. Just kidding Glenn I could not help myself.

JJ

[Suck fumes]

That's the problem with reading print on a screen. Haha

[rleng1]

The 55 has definetly turned it up a notch over the last year. Almost like flipping a switch??
Oh wait, where's Glenn. That's illegal. BRYAN!!!

[kbrewmr2]

You obviously haven't run AI at nationals then.... I can recall at least 4 events that were a joke.

not everyone can be as awesome as you I guess

How bad are we talking? 10 sec/lap off the pace? Lapped more than once? Totally clueless to traffic?

[Rsmith350]

Plus having somewhat of a real tech inspection is a plus also.

Wow! Thanks dude!

[RichardP]

Wow! Thanks dude!

They generally inspect a good list of items for compliance at nationals. I can't remember the last time we were inspected for anything but weight and socks. Generally, tech is supposed to do the inspection. Series management is supposed to request what they would like tech to inspect...


Richard P.

[AI#97]

not everyone can be as awesome as you I guess

How bad are we talking? 10 sec/lap off the pace? Lapped more than once? Totally clueless to traffic?

Ken, you ASSume too much. The Joke was how the rules weren't enforced and the event was run like the YMCA where it was "it's ok because we're ok"...RETARDED....however, thank you for acknowledging my awesomeness!

[Rsmith350]

They generally inspect a good list of items for compliance at nationals. I can't remember the last time we were inspected for anything but weight and socks. Generally, tech is supposed to do the inspection. Series management is supposed to request what they would like tech to inspect...


Richard P.
Very much aware of that. I get aggravated when people suggest that we aren't thorough. I am always paying attention to all classes and looking to spot things that are not with class rules for all series. I report those to the series directors regularly. What they do with them is beyond my control. I catch things all the time, like coil packs that aren't within the rules, glove box covers that are absent, bumper covers from a "not allowed" model, hell I've seen people with the wrong type of ECU.

[marshall_mosty]

They generally inspect a good list of items for compliance at nationals. I can't remember the last time we were inspected for anything but weight and socks. Generally, tech is supposed to do the inspection. Series management is supposed to request what they would like tech to inspect...

So we can handle this a few ways... I can submit a tech sheet with a bunch of stuff and hold everyone hostage for 15-20 minutes post race as people cook in their monkey suits and hit more items that take time to police, or we can do the bare minimum and use the evil "trust" word... I've been more relaxed this year with tech plans to see how it worked. I personally have not had a single person approach me about the lack of tech, or they thought someone was trying to get away with something. For that, there is always a protest form.

So, if each one of you want to send me your thoughts, I can certainly ramp up the inspections post-race, do spot inspection in the pits, etc...

Remember, Glenn and I work for you.




Oh, and also, if you want more tech AND want to keep bouncing into each other, we are going to be in tech a LONG time... Most races I spend 15-30 minutes AFTER the majority of you leave dealing with contact forms, reviewing video, and consulting the RD and CCR's.

[Fbody383]

hell I've seen people with the wrong type of ECU. Little good it does me...

[ShadowBolt]

Very much aware of that. I get aggravated when people suggest that we aren't thorough. I am always paying attention to all classes and looking to spot things that are not with class rules for all series. I report those to the series directors regularly. What they do with them is beyond my control. I catch things all the time, like coil packs that aren't within the rules, glove box covers that are absent, bumper covers from a "not allowed" model, hell I've seen people with the wrong type of ECU.
Ross, I for one (and I bet all of the rest of the AI/CMC crowd) are thankful to have you doing our tech. I know it's a thankless job but I appreciate the time you give. I think Aaron was just saying at nationals (if ran correctly) you should know you got beat by a better driver and not a cheater. We don't have time for all that at our local races.

JJ

[Suck fumes]

That was the jist of it. I'm sure it came out wrong cause I'm typing, and was nothing personal toward Ross or anyone. I wasn't blaming anyone or saying they were doing a bad job. My point was that at nationals there is an in depth inspection where we actually have to pull a wheel off and have stuff checked. We can do that at a local level to, it's not a big deal and doesn't take very long to measure a restrictor plate or something simple. At the very least I think we should measure restrictors and compare to the drivers logbook. That's all I'm sayin.

[rleng1]

Very much aware of that. I get aggravated when people suggest that we aren't thorough. I am always paying attention to all classes and looking to spot things that are not with class rules for all series. I report those to the series directors regularly. What they do with them is beyond my control. I catch things all the time, like coil packs that aren't within the rules, glove box covers that are absent, bumper covers from a "not allowed" model, hell I've seen people with the wrong type of ECU.

You haven't noticed a peculiar looking switch on the 55 by any chance? BL wanted me to ask.

[smitty328]

So we can handle this a few ways... I can submit a tech sheet with a bunch of stuff and hold everyone hostage for 15-20 minutes post race as people cook in their monkey suits and hit more items that take time to police, or we can do the bare minimum and use the evil "trust" word... I've been more relaxed this year with tech plans to see how it worked. I personally have not had a single person approach me about the lack of tech, or they thought someone was trying to get away with something. For that, there is always a protest form.

So, if each one of you want to send me your thoughts, I can certainly ramp up the inspections post-race, do spot inspection in the pits, etc...

Remember, Glenn and I work for you.




Oh, and also, if you want more tech AND want to keep bouncing into each other, we are going to be in tech a LONG time... Most races I spend 15-30 minutes AFTER the majority of you leave dealing with contact forms, reviewing video, and consulting the RD and CCR's.

I would hate to see more tech after the race, I want to get out of my suit. I have no problems with spot checks, they seem to work. I like, AND TRUST, everyone in this current group and I think it will stay that way. I know I'm still relatively new, but I just don't see cheating as a problem in this group.

[marshall_mosty]

I would hate to see more tech after the race, I want to get out of my suit. I have no problems with spot checks, they seem to work. I like, AND TRUST, everyone in this current group and I think it will stay that way. I know I'm still relatively new, but I just don't see cheating as a problem in this group.

Mark,
With as close as our group "can" run and the cat/mouse that we play due to HP/weight rules make it VERY fair... I just seem to need some more HP, as I just can't match the legs on the Coyote motors... I to have no worries about our current group. Now MSR-H was the exception and not the rule and that is EXACTLY the situation in which spot checks work.

[Rsmith350]

Thanks Jerry, that goes a long way. Our directors are on the ball normally with tech plans. There are some directors who wanna pick and choose when information is important to them. Will has been great with helping work these issues out. NASA really does have a great team of people.

[Pranav]

Yeah, just be glad this isn't the SCCA.

Autocrossing with them wasn't toooo bad but I've heard nightmares about the road racing program.

[Fbody383]

I've heard nightmares about the road racing program. My favorite has to be the carb butterfly screws...


I can submit a tech sheet with a bunch of stuff and hold everyone hostage for 15-20 minutes post race as people cook in their monkey suits and hit more items that take time to police, or we can do the bare minimum and use the evil "trust" word... The two are not mutually exclusive. We "do" tech at the scales because that's where the scales are and one of the every race items is weight. Nothing stops a director from putting a little pink sticker on a car and note to check track, belts, LCA length, etc. later and release the car/driver to the paddock.

Personally I would like to see some more "black box" data, from random cars, with the data made public. Yes, I understand there could be performance information in that. But there's always SCCA...

[Rsmith350]

Random computer swapping.....

[blk96gt]

My favorite has to be the carb butterfly screws...

The two are not mutually exclusive. We "do" tech at the scales because that's where the scales are and one of the every race items is weight. Nothing stops a director from putting a little pink sticker on a car and note to check track, belts, LCA length, etc. later and release the car/driver to the paddock.

Personally I would like to see some more "black box" data, from random cars, with the data made public. Yes, I understand there could be performance information in that. But there's always SCCA...

I've got a Traqmate and am always willing to share my data with anyone who wants it.


Random computer swapping.....
This will be a problem with 96+ Mustangs. With PATS enabled, the computer is tied to the car.

[mach1]

Random computer swapping.....

Can you run an A9P in CMC?

[marshall_mosty]

Can you run an A9P in CMC?
I'll let Glenn respond officially, but I know that the A9L, A9M, and A9P will all work with a 5.0 w/5-spd transmission.

[GlennCMC70]

No idea. Explain how it is legal per the update/backdate part of CMC rules.

[marshall_mosty]

No idea. Explain how it is legal per the update/backdate part of CMC rules.
The A9L is the 5 speed computer.
The A9M and A9P are automatic transmission computers. If someone just bought an auto and installed a 5 speed, they would have no clue the computers were different.

Here is something I found this morning..
http://seattleblueovals.com/index.php?topic=22.0

[GlennCMC70]

So a half degree difference from 1800 rpms and up.
What does that get you?

[mach1]

So a half degree difference from 1800 rpms and up.
What does that get you?

I figure any computer that came in an eligible model would be legal, MAF, speed density, auto, manual, etc.

IE
1979-95 Ford Mustang with 5.0 V8 including 1993-1995 Cobra

[GlennCMC70]

Yep. As long as it doesn't create an unintended loophole. I see no reaso. To not allow it.
My first couple years I ran an auto pcm w/ it thinking the car was in neutral.

[marshall_mosty]

Glenn,
And the one degree difference shouldn't make a shattering amount of difference either.

[Fbody383]

Yep. As long as it doesn't create an unintended loophole. I see no reaso. To not allow it.
My first couple years I ran an auto pcm w/ it thinking the car was in neutral. I still run the auto PCM the car came with. Whevenver I check codes I get a 2/3 3/4 solenoid error... imagine that.

[GlennCMC70]

I still run the auto PCM the car came with. Whevenver I check codes I get a 2/3 3/4 solenoid error... imagine that.

There is a wire that can be grounded that will tell the PCM the car is in neutral. This will rid you of that code.

[kbrewmr2]

Parking / Paddock / Grid / Impound info posted today:
http://www.nasaproracing.com/nationals/Parking_plan.pdf

Reservation for spots starts on Thurs afternoon. Nice level spots for sale inside the track in the pro pits, freebie spots outside the track in the club / support paddock.

Grid will be done in the pro pits (inside the track)
You'll come onto track from driver's right towards the exit of Turn 1
Mid-session stops (if needed) will be done driver's left in the club pits, stay left under the bridge and follow that pit road
To exit the session you'll do the same - stay left as you go under the bridge and follow that pit road
Impound will happen in the club pits driver's left of the main straight - they'll hold you until they decide who gets to go to tech and who gets to go free

[David Love AI27]

As long as it doesn't create an unintended loophole.

Burch retired

[kbrewmr2]

reserved parking gone within around an hour...

[Suck fumes]

I'm next to you.

[kbrewmr2]

Is that a good or bad thing? HAHA!

[Suck fumes]

Well I won't bite haha. Will wanted to put all the Texas guys together.

[Suck fumes]

11 for SI now! Only 8 for CMC. Guess some people backed out.

[Suck fumes]

Now 13 SI!! This is going to be fun!

[RichardP]

Now 13 SI!! This is going to be fun!

With a very solid contingent from Texas. Very cool. Good luck guys.

Just a reminder to make your cars fully legal. I've seen some stuff on some of the cars that might not cause any problems with your competitors but would be plenty to have a national championship taken away. That's no fun...


Richard P.

[Suck fumes]

Now 14 SI, Corey is going too

[kbrewmr2]

Live Coverage here (allegedly):

http://live.racerconnect.com/index.php/nasa-eastern-states-championships-2014

[Suck fumes]

Here's my video of Saturday race. When Corey got back around my car jumped almost to 240deg so I lost power and had to drive the piss out of it to stay in 2nd.

http://youtu.be/h0H8SJu74dg

Look at those stock shocks at work!!

[Suck fumes]

Here's my dads video from Sunday race.

http://youtu.be/oj06gBKwVWA