PDA

View Full Version : Fire Safety



marshall_mosty
05-29-2017, 06:45 PM
All,
The following link is something I’ve posted in the past as a FYI regarding the dangers of fire.

http://www.motorsportretro.com/2013/02/f1-fire/

As you may or may not know, One of our TX American Iron competetitors, Jim Strader, was involved in a fire during Saturday morning qualifying at COTA this past weekend (27-May-17).

https://youtu.be/nmo7-B4Z8g4

Jim’s car had an oil cooler line fitting fail (Aeroquip push-lock) which oiled down the complete underside of the car. The fire ignited on the exhaust and the heat from the undercar air feeding the fire was enough to breach the FuelSafe FIA FT-3 rated fuel cell.

Thankfully the fire systems, yes, two of them, were activated to suppress the fire both in and under the car before the car came to a stop (driver’s left) on the uphill front straight leading into turn 1.

Unfortunately, even with the car in 4th gear, the grade was extensive enough for the car to start rolling down/across the track as Jim was egressing the car. He was hung up in the door and was drug 70 feet across the track before finally falling free in the middle of the track as his car continued to roll off course (driver’s right). This all happened in less than 10 seconds…

The COTA safety personnel was thankfully positioned almost directly across the track from where Jim originally stopped the car and they were rolling before race control could even radio for their assistance. Their safety vehicle flanked both Jim and his car to provide a barrier to the other racers while Jim was working himself free of the car.

When you watch the video, look at the intensity of the flames prior to Jim hitting the fire suppression system… It’s amazing how easily the fire vaporizes CCR legal “fire tape” which were covering only a few holes in the tub. Even the riveted aluminum patches showed signs of fire intrusion.
Jim’s personal safety gear held up very well, but the right side of his suit was singed, cool suit lines melted where it went into his suit, right glove was singed.

So, a few questions you need to ask yourself..
1. Can you egress your car quickly enough without being hung on any part of the car in an emergency situation?
2. When was the last time you practiced an emergency egress?
3. Do you race with the bare minimum CCR safety equipment? Should you add a head sock and fire retardant underwear to your already legal 3 layer suit? Are your gloves multi-layer or just the CCR minimum?
4. Do you have a CCR minimum 2.5lb hand-held fire extinguisher, or a fire suppression system? (Just a note, if you think you could do ANY good with a hand-held extinguisher in this type of a situation, then you are kidding yourself)
5. Do you have any open holes in the firewall or tub of your racecar? Are the holes covered with aluminum foil tape, aluminum patch panels ???

A good suggestion that has been made is to use a fire retardant adhesive to seal the riveted sheet metal patch panels.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rutland-1...-64C/202218155

Here are a few pics of the damage to Jim's car.

https://scontent-dft4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18740668_10207088446528940_783952276654821752_n.jp g?oh=667ddd397189a8a45cd4888036e2533f&oe=59E9C179

https://scontent-dft4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18767879_10207088447288959_3614117380873430205_n.j pg?oh=2158186fdcfab3aecdb8ebe73eb29d76&oe=59AA33C8
**Ballast holes that were covered with aluminum foil tape. The tape vaporized**

https://scontent-dft4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18765709_10207088446648943_3193902413597653681_n.j pg?oh=d4042eb2091edee102610c9e6c2d77de&oe=59A38EA7

https://scontent-dft4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18740108_10207088446608942_198926461755767151_n.jp g?oh=067bfeb7a8b5039dcb5d6b9707f14925&oe=59A69E2F
**Holes sealed with dynamat type material on both sides (under car and inside car) did not breach)**

https://scontent-dft4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18881794_10207088446568941_2811752359269601444_n.j pg?oh=be0ab581dd60fe5fc1e1be412c9776e5&oe=59B3D720
**Holes with riveted aluminum panel still had fire breach from underneath. Suggestion would be to seal the patch with a fire resistant “chimney” sealer**

https://scontent-dft4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18839245_10207088446488939_6595468674524880006_n.j pg?oh=c5b1427eaccace629b63bc730fa9d216&oe=59A7A574
**Small pin holes with aluminum foil tape vaporized and shot flames into the cockpit**

https://scontent-dft4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18739998_10207088445848923_2099123274013316615_n.j pg?oh=29208ef0b2e829592a9a0e2b529feb19&oe=59E8119C

https://scontent-dft4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18739952_10207088445808922_5888056652754857096_n.j pg?oh=b57c3b8531715aa60ddfd67e5647f440&oe=59B86529

https://scontent-dft4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18814070_10207088445768921_1915757091524211739_n.j pg?oh=5759151e4de076fe0ca002f061784bca&oe=599DC719

https://scontent-dft4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18739819_10207088445728920_6258973007472639973_n.j pg?oh=a241b9c044fd5a40a1a01a2bc39b9ab7&oe=59E33AF9

https://scontent-dft4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18740108_10207088445688919_1961505406936550800_n.j pg?oh=dbf4628ffc14d8a9f276cd704be3ecce&oe=59B41B25

drecords
05-29-2017, 09:33 PM
What happened Marshall?

Fbody383
05-30-2017, 07:34 AM
I try to remember to do some "hot" evacuations at races - i.e. come to the paddock strapped in, net up, etc. and practice getting out quickly. Need to add "put car in gear" to that list.

Alien
05-30-2017, 08:24 AM
Driver said car was in gear. The hill I think is just that steep.

Oil line failed, oil under car caught fire.

Fbody383
05-30-2017, 08:28 AM
Driver said car was in gear. Fair enough. Nothing else to do then but get out.

ShadowBolt
05-30-2017, 08:45 AM
He could have knocked it out of gear getting out. What I could not believe was that the fire came through every hole in the car like a blowtorch. He said even the holes he had taped over with the aluminum foil tape burned right through ( I have several places like that). The places he had sheet metal riveted over holes or openings fire came out between the metal patch and the floor of the car between the rivets.

JJ

MikeP99Z
05-30-2017, 01:04 PM
I'm replacing a number of hole patches (also aluminum tape) prior to Hallett (ballast holes, shock canister holes, etc.), and adding a cover over the factory shift boot and resealing. I'm evaluating a second fire bottle system for installation this summer. Right now I only have 2 nozzles on one bottle (one at me from the rear view mirror area, and one in the engine bay). I'm adding a nozzle under the dash pointed at my legs / wedding vegetables, and a one through the rear bulk head under the rear of the car. I'll likely add an additional nozzle in the engine bay also.

After 15 years of the same drivers suit, I'll be getting a new one. I'm sure the fire protection capability of it has been compromised from years of laundering.

ShadowBolt
05-30-2017, 01:36 PM
I'm replacing a number of hole patches (also aluminum tape) prior to Hallett (ballast holes, shock canister holes, etc.), and adding a cover over the factory shift boot and resealing. I'm evaluating a second fire bottle system for installation this summer. Right now I only have 2 nozzles on one bottle (one at me from the rear view mirror area, and one in the engine bay). I'm adding a nozzle under the dash pointed at my legs / wedding vegetables, and a one through the rear bulk head under the rear of the car. I'll likely add an additional nozzle in the engine bay also.

After 15 years of the same drivers suit, I'll be getting a new one. I'm sure the fire protection capability of it has been compromised from years of laundering.

I have lots of work to seal all the holes in the 55. I'm thinking .032" aluminum patches taped on with the aluminum foil tape plus rivets if needed. Let me know if you guys need some small pieces of aluminum for this purpose. I can get sheets of 5052 for $1.35 per lb.


I could not believe how light-weight BL suit was. It is a Sparco X-Light. I was wanting to get the new Sparco Victory RS4 (new material single layer HOCOTEX) but BL's X-Light weights almost nothing. Not sure what to get now.

JJ

Fbody383
05-30-2017, 02:02 PM
I have lots of work to seal all the holes in the 55. I'm thinking .032" aluminum patches taped on with the aluminum foil tape plus rivets if needed. Let me know if you guys need some small pieces of aluminum for this purpose. I can get sheets of 5052 for $1.35 per lb. Anybody know of a generally fire retardant, mostly inexpensive adhesive? Having something to seal up the gaps would help too.

Now we need a Rookie Day, a Development Day, and a Car Fire Safety Day.

mach1
05-30-2017, 02:40 PM
Anybody know of a generally fire retardant, mostly inexpensive adhesive? Having something to seal up the gaps would help too.

Now we need a Rookie Day, a Development Day, and a Car Fire Safety Day.

They told us that the dynamat held up to the fire fyi.

39PitCrew
05-30-2017, 03:46 PM
Anybody know of a generally fire retardant, mostly inexpensive adhesive? Having something to seal up the gaps would help too.

Now we need a Rookie Day, a Development Day, and a Car Fire Safety Day.

Wonder if either of these would work under a riveted plate

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rutland-10-3-oz-Furnace-Cement-Tub-in-Black-64C/202218155
or maybe
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rutland-3-8-in-x-7-ft-Grapho-Glas-Replacement-Gasket-Kit-96-6/202218157

marshall_mosty
05-30-2017, 08:55 PM
I was going to mention the fireplace adhesive to seal your riveted aluminum panel patches.
I have more pics that I'll link tomorrow. Got busy at work.

marshall_mosty
05-31-2017, 09:02 AM
Read the first post again... I added additional information.

Pranav
05-31-2017, 12:26 PM
Would this work better or worse than the fireplace adhesive?

http://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-10-1-fl-oz-Fire-Barrier-Sealant-Caulk-CP-25WB-Plus-CP-25WB/100166701

marshall_mosty
05-31-2017, 12:45 PM
Pranav,
Either will work better than no sealant. Nothing will prevent fire forever, but we just want to buy ourselves time for egress (or extraction by the safety crew if it goes really bad)...

39PitCrew
05-31-2017, 01:18 PM
Would this work better or worse than the fireplace adhesive?

http://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-10-1-fl-oz-Fire-Barrier-Sealant-Caulk-CP-25WB-Plus-CP-25WB/100166701

That is actually what I was trying to find.
I wondered if the other link I put up cures to a flexible material that
would stand up to the kind of vibration that exists on a race car.

I was thinking of the fire seals on my gun safe that are a thin strip of closed
cell foam type product that expands when it gets very hot. I think that stuff is rated
for like 1200 F.

Like this stuff:
http://www.tomziemer.com/2015/07/gun-safes-palusol-seals-part-2.html
In the case of a race car we wouldn't care if it expands prematurely, that would
probably be a good thing. Question is, how does it hold up to multiple heat cycles
and things like fuel, various lubricants, brake & power steering fluids, cleaning solvents
and such that get used in and around race cars.

WutApex
06-01-2017, 02:55 AM
Wow, thanks for posting this. I've been putting off a fire system for too long....and I've got some holes to plug.

WutApex
06-12-2017, 05:14 PM
By-the-by, any recommendations on a decent mechanical system (likely 3 zones to cover the fuel pump/fuel cell). There seems to be a number of choices out there (AFFF, FE36, FM-200, Halatron, Novec 1230, etc.), each with their touted benefits. I was looking at the AFFF, but on occasion, it can get pretty cold early in the season and really don't want to deal with it freezing.

thoughts?

Supercharged111
06-13-2017, 11:21 AM
Well. I never knew the stuff had a freezing point so close to water.

WutApex
06-13-2017, 11:57 AM
I hadn't either until Scott mentioned it in the post on the RM forum. I don't want to add that to an already long list of things to do during a race weekend.

AI#97
06-21-2017, 08:45 PM
Wonder if either of these would work under a riveted plate

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rutland-10-3-oz-Furnace-Cement-Tub-in-Black-64C/202218155
or maybe
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rutland-3-8-in-x-7-ft-Grapho-Glas-Replacement-Gasket-Kit-96-6/202218157


I would NOT rely on this stuff. The 3M material that Pranav posted is a far better material that will actually expand in a flame and seal the hole even better. It is required in all penetrations in fire partitions in commercial construction.

Also, anyone that has a fear of fire, feel free to stop by my shop sometime and look at some parts I have sitting outside. I would suggest that you use steel to seal holes in firewalls. Aluminum is pretty well pointless in a serious fire and becomes molten rather quickly. Those of us with composite body panels should be even more concerned and you F-body guys with plastic fuel lines worse still. This was a little fire compared to what CAN happen. I have seen the end result of REAL bad fire and it's scary as hell what melts completely away as if it were never there!!!!

WutApex
06-21-2017, 10:48 PM
I would NOT rely on this stuff. The 3M material that Pranav posted is a far better material that will actually expand in a flame and seal the hole even better....

shoot, I think I got the FireBlock (http://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-10-1-oz-Fire-Block-Sealant-FB-136-FB-136/100390499), not the Fire-barrier. Does the Fire Block expand like the Barrier stuff?....couldn't find where it says it does

AI#97
06-22-2017, 09:40 PM
shoot, I think I got the FireBlock (http://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-10-1-oz-Fire-Block-Sealant-FB-136-FB-136/100390499), not the Fire-barrier. Does the Fire Block expand like the Barrier stuff?....couldn't find where it says it does

I do not believe it does.