15 minute vs 30 minute races.

[mitchntx]

So, we can all agree that a NASA 20 minute race is actually 15-16 minutes of actual racing. Less on big tracks like TWS, MSR-H and MSR-C in the 3.1 configuration.

We can extrapoloate that the National 40 minutes races will have similar percentage of green flag racing.

And we've all read the pro and cons of doing longer races.

But it's all just internet, keyboard BS. We won't REALLY know the affect until it's tried.

Can we PLEASE consider combining the 2 races on Sunday the 23rd of April to get a longer race in? Just as an experimant? Make it a double points race, but count as a single drop.

The heat shouldn't be a factor, so driver conditioning will play less of a role. But we will learn a lot about how to manage fuel, tires and setup.

There are many of us who aren't going to Nationals to compete. But there are those of us who are. Can we please accommodate those racers who are representing our region?

[michaelmosty]

I am open for any option. I won't be racing at the nationals (this year) but am willing to do whatever it takes to get those who are racing prepared for it.
If a change is a "possibility" then I definitely think it will be wise to do it in the cooler months as Mitch noted. A 40 min. race @ TWS in the Aug. heat would be pretty brutal.

[Todd Covini]

We'll have to run this by Osama Bin Laden and I'm not so sure he's going to like it. :roll:

-=- T

[mitchntx]

Todd ... be nice.

[CMC17]

With the proper notice, I'm all for it.

[Mike Bell]

Why not do the FULL 40 MINUTES then. If we're trying to get ready or help fellow regional drivers get ready for Nats then a 40 minute race might be a better format.

Besides, how many "cooler" months are there between now and September? April might be the only window of opportunity...........

[y5e06]

I'm in favor for sure, even on short notice. I absolutely don't have plans to even consider nationals. I just want to do 40 minutes for the hell of it. Not too concerned w/ driver conditioning and I think the car will do just fine.... (assuming no errant potato farming)

I'd run 40 minutes in august too :twisted:

[MikeP99Z]

mmmmm 40 min races :D

[Nick]

I'm all in favor of 40 minute races.
We don't want to be the only region with no experience running long races come Nats.

I'd like to throw out the idea of doing it on Saturday. Sat: practice, qual, 40 min race. Sun: qual, race, race. Three sessions each day rather than 4 on Sat, 2 on Sun.

[TEXAST1]

I am in favor of the 40 min race on Sunday, Then the other groups might actually get a full length race. :twisted: :lol:

[jeffburch]

I'm one of the oldest here with a wool driving suit.
If you can't handle a 40min race in the Texas heat (TWS) then I'm thinking your a big wuss.
Ohio in Sept is pretty damn hot.
You better cinch it up folks.
Those beach boys with their suntans from the left coast are gonna spank ya.

jb

[Mike Bell]

If you can't handle a 40min race in the Texas heat (TWS) then I'm thinking your a big wuss.


That's me then.

[jeffburch]

If you can't handle a 40min race in the Texas heat (TWS) then I'm thinking your a big wuss.


That's me then.

Seriously Mike, what's the BFD about a little longer race?

jb

[AI#97]

Do it on sunday. I am game....might lap the field TWICE!!! Just need some ballast to cover the additionally burned fuel. Like the idea of double points too!

<----getting cocky again and ready to stir up shit! Must be 3 weeks from race weekend....?

[Todd Covini]

Todd ... be nice.

Sorry. I'm just coming out of post-mortar depression.
I'll be nice.

-=- T

[Mike Bell]

If you can't handle a 40min race in the Texas heat (TWS) then I'm thinking your a big wuss.


That's me then.

Seriously Mike, what's the BFD about a little longer race?

jb

For some reason the heat really kicks my a$$.

I got dehydrated BADLY at an event back in 2003 and since that time it has been an issue I've had to try and "manage". It happened again to me in 2004, Lewis Tanner really saved my bacon that day when he "helped" me realize I was in no shape to get INTO the race car. I was in my RV puking my guts out and in convulsions when I heard our race group heading out onto the track.

I guess it's part of life and me getting older (and being really out of shape) that I hate to admit but must deal with. So far I've had it pretty good racing with NASA TX and the 4 x 20 min races worked for me but I can see the that there is a really good reason why a longer race is in the best interest of the group and I'll have to adjust accordingly.

In the past, on really hot race weekends, I've looked for the starter to give that "one to go" signal near the end of the race. Sometimes it seems to take forever, when I'm out of steam and I've used the car up and it is JUST SO DAMNED HOT. Last May and August really stand out in my mind, I can't imagine adding another 20 minutes to those type events. Now you know why AG wagered "Gatorade" last event, lol.

But this is not a "group" issue, simply a personal one. Nothing more than that. I've come to really enjoy the events as a whole and share in the fun and exasperation that go with each race weekend and I'll find a way to continue that effort. This really is a blast racing with you guys and I want to keep enjoying it till they throw dirt on me some day.

[TEXAST1]

Common Bell, it is only a long race when you are in the lead! :lol:

[Mike Bell]

Common Bell, it is only a long race when you are in the lead! :lol:

Or when Patterson is all over your rear! :wink:

[AI#97]

Mike, what you are experiencing is a decrease in speed! You need to go back to the AI car and use the added speed to get more air into the car to cool you down....

I think we are all in for a rude awakening regarding conditioning and I am not talking about AIR conditioning!!!!

[TEXAST1]

Is Patterson usually all over your rear? :shock: :lol:

[Nick]

Mike, I went to the hospital via ambulance after R4 of the May MSR event last year. My symptoms were the same as you mentioned.

I bought a new suit and changed my pre-event hydration routine. Also, I now drink large quantites of water Sat/Sun morning before getting thirsty.

[Mike Bell]

Is Patterson usually all over your rear? :shock: :lol:

KMIX - quit watching that Brokeback Mtn junk, it's rotting your brain.

[CMC17]

I think this discussion brings up a good point about heat and how affects everyone differently. We are one big brotherhood and we really need to watch out for each other. Looking out for one another is vital for safe racing as a whole. If I know of someone that has heat related problems in the past, I'm going to be more inclined to check in on them throughout the day from morning to dusk. The last thing I want to see is someone already past their threshold without anyone jumping in to help out before it reached that level.

No one is a superman out there. We all have our limitations, but we need to do a better job of not getting close to that limit.

Lets go have some fun and SAFE racing!

[micah]

i sat out on saturday qual. last year @tws. i told todd and adam i felt like poo. if you don't feel right just stay out of the car.

[jeffburch]

Mike,
prior to me getting into NASATx racing, I was witness to the heat at MSRC last May.
It was 102* or so in the shade. Absolutely brutal!
It was a real eye opener for me. It was hot at NPR and TWS with no grid shade.
Do you remember sitting on grid at TWS last year? Seemed like 30min. Need a couple of 12v fans on the dash like a school bus (the long bus).
I got the message then loud and clear, HYDRATION.
I'm always chugging blue poweraids and water.
So much so, visits to the johnny-can are excessive.
My only caveat to longer races is I my have to relieve myself in my snowmobile suit.

Jeff "Rusty Zipper" Burch

BluePoo Racing Team

[Mike Bell]

It's NOT just hydration from what I've been told. Second incident I had was not dehydration, it was heat exhaustion. When I spoke with my doctor about it I was baffled why I was full of water/gatorade yet I had all the same issues as the first time.

He explained that your body is a cooling system, capable of transferring X amount of heat per given time interval. When dehydrated, you greatly diminish your system's ability to transfer heat (like a radiator only half full). HOWEVER, even with a full radiator your body can only transfer X amount of heat and EVEN FULLY HYDRATED you can still suffer heat exhaustion if you get too hot too quickly.

Apparently my "cooling system" sucks lol. (not very efficient) I'll try the cool shirt and loading up on some pasta to help my body retain more fluids, beyond that I'll have to sit on the sidelines.

[chicane23]

This is the proper way to bring up change. Give the racers notice and a vote!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why don't we follow the regions with more experience and have gone through the growing pains already. I don't understand why we try to reinvent the wheel all the time.

I'm game as long as the group votes and it is a majority vote rule.

Why not run two 30 min races. I have always said 20 min races don't give you enough time specially at TWS with 8 laps. A 40 min race is a long time to be running, specially for the out of shAPe people!
But if Nationals are now 40 mins, I guess we need to start conditioning for these races.

Lets try a 30 min race on Sat and 30min on Sun. to see if the group can handle the heat, West coast style. Then at the next event step it up again and run a 30 min race on Sat and a 40 min race on Sun.

I don't like the double points, unless we stay with this for the rest of the year.

I would guess gas would be an issue for some and this would be a step in the right direction to test.

Everyone needs a cool suite and PST can sure help you would with this.

[Todd Covini]

I don't understand why we try to reinvent the wheel all the time.



John....I'm really getting tired of your snipping here and snipping there in a negative tone. I frankly can't keep up with what your demands are now.

If you could, please put together some constructive criticism for me, NASA Texas and NASA National, and let us know how things should be run. Seriously. Put it all down on paper and sign it so we know exactly where JG stands. Send it to me offline and the organization at all levels will look at it compared to where we currently are heading.

Let's try to remain positive...we've come a long way in growing the series to just turn around now.

-=- Todd

[chicane23]

Todd I have no demands. Nor have I every demanded anything of you or this series. I only have suggestions and comments as this is a forum. I'm not sure where you see me demanding anything. If I have please point it out to me as that was not my intension.

I would like to see our region conform to all other regions and not be different.
So that racers that want to run in the different regions (West coast and East coast) can and not be in for a different game that we are not prepared for.

That is all!

Everything I said I thought was very positive.

[micah]

jeff a blue port-a-potty graphic would look good on the hood of that chevy,"PORT-A-POTTY RACING INC." make sure you put the little occupied sign on your car door

[micah]

jeff a blue port-a-potty graphic would look good on the hood of that chevy,"PORT-A-POTTY RACING INC." make sure you put the little occupied sign on your car door

[CMC17]

Apparently my "cooling system" sucks lol. (not very efficient) I'll try the cool shirt and loading up on some pasta to help my body retain more fluids, beyond that I'll have to sit on the sidelines.

Mike, with a fully operational cool shirt, I don't think the heat will be a big factor during a race or longer race than normal. From what I've read, it's one of the best investments that money can buy. I'd say get it installed and test it out at the next event. You will be a changed man for sho'!!

[cmarvel]

Speaking as perhaps the most out of shape person on the grid, I would prefer a 30 or 40 minute race.

Long races reward good technique, and engender less first lap heroics.

My $0.02

[michaelmosty]

My $.02
I would be in favor of 1 longer (30 min. or 40 min) race per weekend. I still like the 20 min. races simply for the reason that there are more of them. I love the old format b/c we get to have 4 RACES!! I love the excitement of gridding, the bft on 3, the anticipation on the warm-up lap, the race itself. I feel very fortunate to get to race 4 times in one weekend.
I also would love the opportunity to have a longer race and broaden my skills further. 30 min. or 40 min. is good in my book.

Summary,
I would like to see a total of 3 races / weekend. Two 20 min. races and either a 30 min. or 40 min.

[TEXAST1]

Mostly has it right! :D

[mitchntx]

Speaking as perhaps the most out of shape person on the grid,

I think I would give you a run for your money

[y5e06]

so, is that a call-out? Mitch vs Chris M in a foot race?
1st one from the skid pad to grid via foot wins? (EMT ambulance is closest at that point)
:D



Speaking as perhaps the most out of shape person on the grid,

I think I would give you a run for your money

[mitchntx]

I forsee a nice donut for you, Mr. Dowdy

[cmarvel]

The last time I ran in public view, it was because my truck was on fire. That was August of 2000.