WTB: 302 with 5 speed

[ledfoot2]

Hey guys. I sold my VVC/GPC Vette to run with you maniacs in AI!! I have a 94 GT as a starting point, but someone forgot to leave the motor and trans in it. I am looking for a 302 and 5 speed. I am open to suggestions. I plan on running a carb setup for simplisity. I am also looking for MM suspension components.

Thanks guys.....hopefully I'll be ready by Feb.

Rayman (formerly #89 blue Corvette)

[marshall_mosty]

Rayman,
I don't know where you live, but dfwstangs.net is a great place to start trying to find the major components.

Otherwise, find a junkyard and see if you can pull the entire powertrain from a wrecked car to start with. Since you're going AI, you can sell the heads, intake, manifolds for a little money to recoup what you have in the long block and tranny.

Also, corner-carvers.com helped a bunch with technical debugging as well as the "higher end" suspension components.

Contact j3ffbrooks on this board for suspension pieces. He is parting out his #101 Mustang and still has some of the MM rear suspension left, I think.

I don't have much, if any, to offer to sell, but with everyone's knowledge here, you can have anything built mucho pronto.

See you in Feb!

[Todd Covini]

Since you're going AI, you can sell the heads, intake, manifolds for a little money to recoup what you have in the long block and tranny.


...and sell them to the CMC guys!!!

If you're going AI, I'd go with a crate motor. Drop it in and go.
Welcome aboard, Rayman!!!

-=- Todd

Hmmm....LS1??? Our first trans-gendered AI car??? :twisted:

[jeffburch]

If your in the D/FW area, contact
Richard Painter @ 817.545.0799
He'll find you something at reasonable prices I guarantee!
His brother David is a transmission/rearend connection.
He's in Burleson,Tx at 817.447.1900

Mention my name for the brother-in-law special treatment.

jb

[ledfoot2]

Thanks guys. I found a local guy with a 87 gt with a motor out of an explorer in it. He already converted it to a carb set up. I can buy the entire car for $800. How does that sound?

WHat is the lightest you guys have seen a SN95 run? I want to aim for the light/low power side of the equation.

[Mike Bell]

Rayman,

My old SN95 AI car was 2990lbs without the driver. Good luck making a used 302 last in AI, the rpm's killed my stock shortblock. Look forward to seeing you out there with us!

Regards,
Mike Bell

[RichardP]

I found a local guy with a 87 gt with a motor out of an explorer in it.

WHat is the lightest you guys have seen a SN95 run?


Not light enough for an explorer motor to make the numbers.

If the motor is from an earlier V8 explorer, it could be made to be CMC legal pretty easily. If it's from a later explorer, the heads aren't legal for CMC and aren't enough for AI...

Realistically, if you are looking for deals like this to put a car together (which I think is a good plan), you might want to examine CMC a little closer. AI is not a budget class.

For an AI motor, there was one for sale here: http://www.aicmctexas.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=683
I don't know if it's still available.


Richard P.

[ledfoot2]

Thanks Richard. I know the motor won't be enough in it's current form, just a starting place. If my math is right a 2700lb car cannot have more than 284rwhp. That is what I am aiming for. I want to have the fastest car per dollar in the AI class. I plan to spend the money on suspension and brakes.

[marshall_mosty]

Rayman,
The only downside to the low HP/TQ and low weight is the TQ curve will suffer some. I'm fighting the same battle to stay at 2800 and still have enough grunt to keep up with the 350HP/400TQ S197 monsters that Capps and Irwin are driving. Matt White's motor is no slouch either.

I'll hopefully come in at 295HP and 310TQ for the '07 season. If I'm a little over, ballast here I come!

[ledfoot2]

That is what I am thinking. It also will hopefully help with brakes and tire wear. Any idea what the lightest SN95 running weighs?

[AI#97]

That is what I am thinking. It also will hopefully help with brakes and tire wear. Any idea what the lightest SN95 running weighs?

My 2000 GT is about the same as an SN95 with the additional steel in ther car over the Fox bodies....I have it down to 2860 without driver and that is with Lexan and an all aluminum motor. Granted I am running a T56 transmission that weighs more than a T5 but I don't see you getting to 2700 race weight OR empty for that matter with an SN95. Keep in mind I already have the fiberglass nose and hood too! I am about to start my winter project though which should net about another 100lbs out of the car if I am lucky!

Better start thinking more power for AI. I would also consider having the motor built to a zero balance internally and get the proper balancer and flywheel for that application....the motor will last longer!

I need to get off my ass and get my motor out for it's freshening if I plan on getting ready by february! :shock:

[AI#97]

That is what I am thinking. It also will hopefully help with brakes and tire wear. Any idea what the lightest SN95 running weighs?

I would not worry about brakes and tire wear that much. I went all season on just two sets of pads in the front and two sets in the rear. Used 4 sets of tires but started tossing them early and two were lost due to damage. I would concentrate on building as much power as you can and choke it back if need be. Stock parts and the Ford "crates" aren't a great start to keep an AI motor alive for the season. RPM is what kills and AI here in Texas is getting pretty space age to be competitive....

[oz98cobra]

[quote=ledfoot2]....I have it down to 2860 without driver and that is with Lexan and an all aluminum motor....

and a working park brake assembly... and interior sheet metal ... and the stock harness complete with PATS ... and ... ;)

You can loose plenty on a winter diet Matt!

[AI#97]

[quote=ledfoot2]....I have it down to 2860 without driver and that is with Lexan and an all aluminum motor....

and a working park brake assembly... and interior sheet metal ... and the stock harness complete with PATS ... and ... ;)

You can loose plenty on a winter diet Matt!

shush!!! I am going to weld in the cage to the A/B pillars this weekend and mark the line for the roof to come off... While I have all that out and the dash out, I am going to get the dash bar done, and I am looking for an air nibler to work on the rest of the metal that needs to go.

Anyone have a tried and true way of removing the sound deadening material in the floor boards? I am not screwing with a heat gun and a scraper. I heard of dry ice working???

Like I said, there is easily 120lbs to come out of the car....so BEWARE! I might not be able to make ALL the events next year but time will tell....any body have any of that time to lend? :lol:

[ledfoot2]

I have time, the problem is money. I planted several money trees in the yard, but the wife seems to be beating me to the punch :shock:

[CMC17]

I have time, the problem is money. I planted several money trees in the yard, but the wife seems to be beating me to the punch :shock:

CMC=Problem solved ;)

Low budget fun with lots more cars.

[j3ffbrooks]

I have time, the problem is money. I planted several money trees in the yard, but the wife seems to be beating me to the punch :shock:

From my experience.....you're going to spend just as much money putting together an AI motor over time as building one right the first time. When start squeezing AI power out of 302 you're going to end up replacing the motor every season. Build a 331.

[RichardP]

Any idea what the lightest SN95 running weighs?


Ernesto Roco crossed the scales at nationals at a bit over 2700 in his SN95 AIX car. It is possible to get there but I don't see how within the AI rules. He also spent big money to get it down that level. It's much cheaper to build more motor.

I got my fox AI car down to around 2680 in race trim without the driver without spending big money on lightweight parts. I've since added a cool suit cooler and an aero package which added a bit to that total. Dropping any reasonable amout below that is going to start costing good money to replace functional parts with light weight versions.

Getting anyway near 2700 on a budget with even a light weight driver would be a good trick.


Richard P.

[AI#97]

I have time, the problem is money. I planted several money trees in the yard, but the wife seems to be beating me to the punch :shock:

From my experience.....you're going to spend just as much money putting together an AI motor over time as building one right the first time. When start squeezing AI power out of 302 you're going to end up replacing the motor every season. Build a 331.

All you guys in Austin seem to think a 331 is shizznit! :lol: :wink:

I suggest finding a reputable engine builder that has actually built motors for road racing and NOT one building motors for JUST drag cars. Tell them the goals of power output and write a check. Not saying everyone has the ability to do that but it's just smarter spent money. My builder has a Grand Am Cup motor that he got stiffed on by a pro team that he is trying to sell me right now but alas, i don't have the cash for it....I think! But, when you go to the right guy that knows how to build the right stuff.....good things happen! :wink:

[AI#97]

Any idea what the lightest SN95 running weighs?


Ernesto Roco crossed the scales at nationals at a bit over 2700 in his SN95 AIX car. It is possible to get there but I don't see how within the AI rules. He also spent big money to get it down that level. It's much cheaper to build more motor.

Getting anyway near 2700 on a budget with even a light weight driver would be a good trick.


Richard P.

Roco had a lot of composite parts on the car which aren't AI legal as you stated. I also think he went chromoly for the cage and many other unobtainium parts that probably cost more than my entire car!

Depending on how my time frees up over the holidays....we will see just how far you can go with an SN car on a "budget".... :wink:

[michaelmosty]

[quote=ledfoot2]....I have it down to 2860 without driver and that is with Lexan and an all aluminum motor....

and a working park brake assembly... and interior sheet metal ... and the stock harness complete with PATS ... and ... ;)

You can loose plenty on a winter diet Matt!

shush!!! I am going to weld in the cage to the A/B pillars this weekend and mark the line for the roof to come off... While I have all that out and the dash out, I am going to get the dash bar done, and I am looking for an air nibler to work on the rest of the metal that needs to go.

Anyone have a tried and true way of removing the sound deadening material in the floor boards? I am not screwing with a heat gun and a scraper. I heard of dry ice working???

Like I said, there is easily 120lbs to come out of the car....so BEWARE! I might not be able to make ALL the events next year but time will tell....any body have any of that time to lend? :lol:
Matt,
I got all of mine out with just a thick putty knife and hammer. There were a couple of "sticky" sections that took more time than others but it pretty much came up easy with very little glue left behind.
Of course Ford might have changed some things b/w 1989 and 2000+ so yours might be a completely different ball game.
Good luck!!

[j3ffbrooks]

All you guys in Austin seem to think a 331 is shizznit! :lol: :wink:


I don't think its just us in Austin. Its obvious that not everyone has $8000 to put into a motor(eg stroked 4.6 with all forged internals) like you, Matt. Not saying there is anything wrong with that, I mean, I wish I could. Sorry, offense to you.

You can build a very stout 331 for half that.

[ledfoot2]

Well guys, you better start getting scared. I picked up a cherry 87 POS GT with a running motor and drove it home tonight. It has one of those cool triangle air cleaners that I hear add at least 100hp! I am going to tear the motor down, and rebuild it. At least I am making some progress. $2200 into the project so far. I think we should calculate a time/dollar spent ratio to see who is really ahead in this game. Of course 0/2000 is not a very good ratio. :(

[Todd Covini]

Ooooh. Now you have a CMC car AND an AI car!!!! :twisted:

-=- T

[marshall_mosty]

My car is at 2650 without me (2823 with me) at MSR-H last event. I still have quite a bit of weight (30 lbs or so) that can come out of the car... 2700 would be ellusive, especially when I add a cool suit and aero...

Ohh well, I'll keep it as light as possible and save tires.


All it takes is a well very picky eye to find each little ounce of weight... hey we don't need wipers... that's what Rain-X is for. Steel bumpers... who needs em, build them out of aluminum...

If I only built the cage out of .095 to begin with...

[AI#97]

All you guys in Austin seem to think a 331 is shizznit! :lol: :wink:


I don't think its just us in Austin. Its obvious that not everyone has $8000 to put into a motor(eg stroked 4.6 with all forged internals) like you, Matt. Not saying there is anything wrong with that, I mean, I wish I could. Sorry, offense to you.

You can build a very stout 331 for half that.

Jeff, 2800 in the shortblock, $750 ported stock heads, $1300 intake and fuel rails, $550 for the cams, $250 for the used longtubes, $350 for the canton pan.....not seeing $8000 in there!!! :wink: Believe me, I am lucky to have found the engine builder to do this because I get all the parts at cost and free machine work and labor. Oh, and it's only a bored motor right now....pushing 297-299 cubes and about 385hp at the crank! I am going to diagnose my "light knock" this weekend to see if I need to pull the motor and instill pants shitting fear!!! :wink: