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mitchntx
04-02-2006, 08:49 PM
Ran a DE event with The Driver's Edge.

I had forgotten just how much fun these were. Low stress and tons of fun.

Saw folks I hadn't seen in a LONG time. It was very social and zero tension. No drama, no contraversy, no car contact.

Lot's of folks asked me about what the hell was going on with the NASA group and all the wrecks. They asked about all the politics.

hmmm ...

It gave me a chance to look at things from a different perspective and ask ...

WTF guys?

"We" seem to be getting a reputation in the community. And it's not something to be proud of.

I realize this isn't Sunday School or grocery shopping, but it isn't Saturday night redneck dirt track stuff either.

This is how our peer group sees us ... Are you sure that's what we want?

chicane23
04-02-2006, 09:22 PM
I heard the same thing when I delivered my car to St. Louis.

Everyone I talked to asked me the same questions, including why can't your guys in Texas stay on track.
Specially after seeing all the video and the off track excursions. ;-)

mitchntx
04-02-2006, 09:53 PM
Let me give some background ...

I started in cruising DEs in 2000, with The Driver's Edge, Motorsports Club and LSBMW. I turned my first laps at MSr before the final layer of pavement was laid.

These DE folks are my roots. It's where i came from.

mitchntx
04-03-2006, 03:19 PM
Another thought came to mind ...

I find it quite sad that we all have to run in-car video in order to defend ourselves post-race or lay blame at some elses feet.

Adam Ginsberg
04-03-2006, 04:53 PM
Texas is hardly the only region that has off-track excursions, or damage from time to time.

Contact folks in any NASA region, and they'll share incidents.

We've become "headliners", if you will, because we like to share our race videos....with the nature of the 'net, they get around. Fast.

Clearly, we don't want the outward perception that we are a bunch of rebels, and our run group is like playing ping-pong with V8's. Precisely why there is a discipline process.

Video cameras are a valuable resource, used for different reasons. The primary reason I have one is to help figure out if I've made a mistake, running the wrong line, etc. If there is an incident, it helps clarify what happened.

It's part of growing pains. We need to keep a level head, and not make wild decisions one way, or the other.

oz98cobra
04-03-2006, 06:19 PM
Mitch is not the only one that has heard this kind of talk about NASA TX events - it has been increasing at DEs and other gathering for the last six months.

If you want to look for a reason, then you could say it is 'growing pains' because the CMC/AI series grew rapidly so you've got a large field of rookies. But I also think that the 'system' could be improved - I do not feel that the way HPDE/Racecaft is being run right now is adequately preparing rookies for large field wheel to wheel racing series like CMC, Spec Miata. etc. I think that with the rate at which NASA TX is growing, Racecraft and competition licensing should be part of every event, complete with a couple of dedicated sessions each weekend - sessions where skills like side-by-side driving, can be learned.

But improving HPDE/Racecraft will only help drivers coming in in future - it isn't going to help us now - we have to help each other 'raise the standard'.

cmarvel
04-03-2006, 08:30 PM
Daron is right (as he was when he first posted an opinion), if we were on motorcycles we would have less incidents. We need to work on the racecraft throughout the group.

Some of the videos posted after March show drivers still racing after passing three yellow stations. Most of the field was so engulfed in their own red mist that they were still racing on the approach to the third station. Including many series veterans. The most appalling thing about that is that the entire field passed the car that caused the yellow on the previous lap. Everyone should have been expecting a yellow in Rattlesnake. 1:30 is not enough time for a tow.

The fact that most of the field failed to display that critical level of situational awareness indicates that this is the first area we need to work on.

I volunteer to lead a lunchtime (or dinnertime) discussion on situational awareness.

Please let me know if you are interested.

mitchntx
04-03-2006, 09:31 PM
We've become "headliners", if you will, because we like to share our race videos....with the nature of the 'net, they get around. Fast.


Seen ANY headlines lately? Destruction and Mayhem rule ...



Clearly, we don't want the outward perception that we are a bunch of rebels, and our run group is like playing ping-pong with V8's. Precisely why there is a discipline process.


When I touched you in Big Bend, I thought I was gonna get my pee-pee severly whacked. If the discipline I was handed is indicative of discipline handed out, then there is no deterent.

When I saw what Richard Dickey did and how you guys handled it, that was what swayed me to come racing with you guys. That seems like a long time ago ...

If I were a newb looking at this series ... I'd probably still be running DEs ...




Video cameras are a valuable resource, used for different reasons. The primary reason I have one is to help figure out if I've made a mistake, running the wrong line, etc. If there is an incident, it helps clarify what happened.


Stick to that story ...



It's part of growing pains. We need to keep a level head, and not make wild decisions one way, or the other.

Growing pains was last year ... it should be full blown peer pressure and mutual respect by this point in time.

The problem seems to be getting worse.

mitchntx
04-03-2006, 09:38 PM
The most appalling thing about that is that the entire field passed the car that caused the yellow on the previous lap. Everyone should have been expecting a yellow in Rattlesnake. 1:30 is not enough time for a tow.

The fact that most of the field failed to display that critical level of situational awareness indicates that this is the first area we need to work on.


Amen, brudda ...

The problem seems to be, again, the lack of discipline, both personal and from authority. Some in this group have a "win at ANY cost" attitude. And it clouds good sound judgement.

And turning a blind eye to poor judgement is in of itself a crime.

AI#97
04-03-2006, 09:50 PM
Funniest thing about this entire line of thinking is that 3 weeks ago I was a raging lunatic smartass rookie......amazing what 3 weeks of thinking will do!

<insert long winded a-hole comments here...>


<---just A.F.R......

CMC17
04-03-2006, 09:51 PM
The most appalling thing about that is that the entire field passed the car that caused the yellow on the previous lap. Everyone should have been expecting a yellow in Rattlesnake. 1:30 is not enough time for a tow.

The fact that most of the field failed to display that critical level of situational awareness indicates that this is the first area we need to work on.


Amen, brudda ...

The problem seems to be, again, the lack of discipline, both personal and from authority. Some in this group have a "win at ANY cost" attitude. And it clouds good sound judgement.

And turning a blind eye to poor judgement is in of itself a crime.

I have to admit that I almost quit over this incident. Not because of anyone else, because of my lack of ability to think outside the "I must win box". No one has beaten myself up more over it than I have since the event. I had to re-evaluate what I was doing and why I was doing it. Things have changed for me and I have been working the mental game since last month. I'm almost there and should be ready for the April event... If I don't think I'm 100% ready mentally, then you won't see me. If you do see me then expect more from me while on/off the track.

We all make mistakes, it's how we handle/deal with them what makes us who we are. I'd like to think others have also reflected on this as a true testament of how much we still have to learn.

Be safe and hope to see you guys in a few weeks.

AI#97
04-03-2006, 09:59 PM
Lot's of folks asked me about what the hell was going on with the NASA group and all the wrecks. They asked about all the politics.

hmmm ...

It gave me a chance to look at things from a different perspective and ask ...

WTF guys?

"We" seem to be getting a reputation in the community. And it's not something to be proud of.

I realize this isn't Sunday School or grocery shopping, but it isn't Saturday night redneck dirt track stuff either.

This is how our peer group sees us ... Are you sure that's what we want?

Mitch, I only wish I had made my previous comments in this manner... Hindsight sucks some times?!!!! :cry:

mitchntx
04-04-2006, 06:52 AM
Intraspection is difficult and many times ugly.

Doing it is one thing ... learning from it another. As you get older, ignoring it no longer seems macho. as one gets older they begin to realize that they really are vincible ...

Mike Bell
04-04-2006, 08:17 AM
I volunteer to lead a lunchtime (or dinnertime) discussion on situational awareness.

Please let me know if you are interested.

I would be VERY interested in such a discussion Chris, thanks for making the offer!

CMC17
04-04-2006, 08:58 AM
I would also be interested. Never can have enough information on SA.


Bad SA:
http://www.tek-racing.net/BadSA.jpg

cmarvel
04-04-2006, 09:58 AM
Great, lets do it!

Remember, this is a discussion not a lecture. The goal is for everyone to learn from each other.

MikeP99Z
04-04-2006, 01:04 PM
Mitch is not the only one that has heard this kind of talk about NASA TX events - it has been increasing at DEs and other gathering for the last six months.

If you want to look for a reason, then you could say it is 'growing pains' because the CMC/AI series grew rapidly so you've got a large field of rookies. But I also think that the 'system' could be improved - I do not feel that the way HPDE/Racecaft is being run right now is adequately preparing rookies for large field wheel to wheel racing series like CMC, Spec Miata. etc. I think that with the rate at which NASA TX is growing, Racecraft and competition licensing should be part of every event, complete with a couple of dedicated sessions each weekend - sessions where skills like side-by-side driving, can be learned.

But improving HPDE/Racecraft will only help drivers coming in in future - it isn't going to help us now - we have to help each other 'raise the standard'.

Is something being done differently now than was done in the past?

For the current AI/CMC drivers - I believe I made it very clear about this only being for trophies and the body shop not being a favorable option. Additionally, was nothing gathered from the comp licensing day that y'all participated in?

I'm taking some of the above comments personally - because these things were explained in class and I spent alot of time doing the classes and the comp licensing day. Additionally - situational awareness is something that is discussed repeatedly - look at my handouts.

People flat out ignoring flags is not something that I or any other instructor can help - you can only say it so many times - check the flag stations, check the flag stations.... It is part of your responsibility as a driver to read the flags.

mitchntx
04-04-2006, 01:11 PM
Mike ... I can't speak for anyone else, but i heard it.

However, like any child, if there are no consequences to breaking rules, why pay attention to the rules.

I'm as guilty as the next guy. I'm not pointing fingers.

MikeP99Z
04-04-2006, 01:17 PM
The more I think about what's written in this thread - the more pissed I'm becoming.

Classroom discussion/licensing day training/individual instruction - these can only take a person so far with regards to learning about how to race.

Taking what you learned in class onto the track, having a complete understanding of the rules, exercising good car control, AND making sound judgements while on the track are all part of being a professional.

I can't help you (and no classroom/training can) if you CHOOSE not to obey the flags, or if you make bad judgement calls. You are then subject to the scrutiny of your peers and the Race Director.

Mike Bell
04-04-2006, 01:22 PM
This thread should probably be moved to the "Talk" forum to keep the dirty laundry in the hamper IMHO.

MikeP, not one complaint about my RaceCraft schooling here. You and KMix were great. I simply let my brain-fade when I needed it most last event.

MikeP99Z
04-04-2006, 01:35 PM
I'm also not saying that I'm perfect or that every scenario can possibly be explained in class. I've missed flags before.

MikeP99Z
04-04-2006, 01:39 PM
I'm willing to conduct a "refresher course" at the April event for all those involved in the AI/CMC group - including the veterans. Pick a time.

AllZWay
04-04-2006, 02:59 PM
I'm willing to conduct a "refresher course" at the April event for all those involved in the AI/CMC group - including the veterans. Pick a time.

Hopefully... you will be working with me anyway. 8)

MikeP99Z
04-04-2006, 03:04 PM
Aye I will James. Altering your mad dirt car driving skillz into asphalt-kicking prowess.

AllZWay
04-04-2006, 03:10 PM
Aye I will James. Altering your mad dirt car driving skillz into asphalt-kicking prowess.

I actually think I was a pretty clean dirt track driver..... as far as dirt track driving goes of course. Although....you did see me that night. :o

AI#97
04-04-2006, 03:11 PM
The more I think about what's written in this thread - the more pissed I'm becoming.

Classroom discussion/licensing day training/individual instruction - these can only take a person so far with regards to learning about how to race.

Taking what you learned in class onto the track, having a complete understanding of the rules, exercising good car control, AND making sound judgements while on the track are all part of being a professional.

I can't help you (and no classroom/training can) if you CHOOSE not to obey the flags, or if you make bad judgement calls. You are then subject to the scrutiny of your peers and the Race Director.

Mike, please don't take it personally. You ran a tight ship given the limited resources you had for instructor/student ratio compared to other schools so your instruction can only go so far as you pointed out. The difference is what we do AFTER school and what we do on track. That needs to be governed by race control....NO ONE ELSE.

Now in our defense, we need to ask that race control get their stories right. In R4, the story over the radio was that JG and I had collided and in reality were 100's of feet apart.....also that I had passed under a yellow flag....well, i have gone back and watched the video, and it isn't clear that there was a flag showing in rattlesnake.....but what it does show is that I wasn't passing but was being passed! Maybe in the thick of things and the close proximity of 10 cars on lap 3, the CW's couldn't tell for sure.

Overall point, what is in the past is done....let's learn from it, improve and move forward. somehow, we have to learn to type so it doesn't seem we are pointing fingers.....or if we are, then we need to nut up and come out and say what's on our minds. :lol:

oz98cobra
04-04-2006, 04:39 PM
Mitch is not the only one that has heard this kind of talk about NASA TX events - it has been increasing at DEs and other gathering for the last six months.

If you want to look for a reason, then you could say it is 'growing pains' because the CMC/AI series grew rapidly so you've got a large field of rookies. But I also think that the 'system' could be improved - I do not feel that the way HPDE/Racecaft is being run right now is adequately preparing rookies for large field wheel to wheel racing series like CMC, Spec Miata. etc. I think that with the rate at which NASA TX is growing, Racecraft and competition licensing should be part of every event, complete with a couple of dedicated sessions each weekend - sessions where skills like side-by-side driving, can be learned.

But improving HPDE/Racecraft will only help drivers coming in in future - it isn't going to help us now - we have to help each other 'raise the standard'.

Is something being done differently now than was done in the past?

For the current AI/CMC drivers - I believe I made it very clear about this only being for trophies and the body shop not being a favorable option. Additionally, was nothing gathered from the comp licensing day that y'all participated in?

I'm taking some of the above comments personally - because these things were explained in class and I spent alot of time doing the classes and the comp licensing day. Additionally - situational awareness is something that is discussed repeatedly - look at my handouts.

People flat out ignoring flags is not something that I or any other instructor can help - you can only say it so many times - check the flag stations, check the flag stations.... It is part of your responsibility as a driver to read the flags.

Mike, Please don't take my comments personally - my apologies if my wording was poor and you misunderstood my point. Your leadership and classroom instruction was excellent!

To word this another way, one comp licensing day is not enough - and rookies are joining the series throughout the year without having had the benefit of one, hence my suggestion that it be incorporated into every weekend.

oz98cobra
04-04-2006, 07:08 PM
I'll be in on any discussions/refreshers we do at the next event.

In the meantime, here is an exersize to try that can help with situational awareness - peripheral vision training - I found this in one of Ross Bentley's Speed Secrets books, and I do it often when I'm on the road.

When you're driving on the freeway, look straight ahead down the road with your eyes focuses on where you are going, and try to indentify detail in objects off to the side in the 80 to 90- degree peripheral vision - without actually looking at them. Try to indentify as much detail as possible - for example "a two story green house with a brown roof". If my wife is in the car, I say out loud what I'm seeing and she confirms the accuracy. At first, it will be harder than you think to actually identify detail, but after some practise, you can learn to develop a much greater awareness of what is in your peripheral vision. This will help you see me sooner when I'm passing you ;)

Todd Covini
04-04-2006, 11:08 PM
When I touched you in Big Bend, I thought I was gonna get my pee-pee severly whacked. If the discipline I was handed is indicative of discipline handed out, then there is no deterent.

When I saw what Richard Dickey did and how you guys handled it, that was what swayed me to come racing with you guys. That seems like a long time ago ...

If I were a newb looking at this series ... I'd probably still be running DEs ...



I step away from the board for a day and it takes two days to catch up! :)

#1- Discipline- Many folks were disenchanted with the penalties given for the contacts at the last event. i.e.- probations for anyone involved in contact. Hitter and Hittee. This is not the norm, nor will it be. A fellow racer passed away at the last event and to say that Race Central was a lit-tle busy to conduct IRB's for AI/CMC would be an understatement. On Sunday nite, it appeared that we would just not have the time to properly review each incident, in light of the bigger issues at hand. Rather than DO NOTHING...all of the incidents were carried over until the next event. i.e.- PROBATION. With a probation, it means if you get in another incident...we lump your previous contact into the IRB process and now review BOTH incidents to determine the proper CUMULATIVE penalty. (If you are found to not be at fault in the probation event, it won't carry much weight in your "new" incident. 100% at fault in the probation event and now 100% at fault in the "new" incident?? Double Trouble. So the discipline everyone was handed WAS NOT "indicative" at all, by any means. As someone said before...it was a mulligan due to the extraordinary circumstances...but don't expect too many of them!

#2- Richard Dickey was not handed his final penalty after one incident. Much to everyone's chagrin, it was after a handful of incidents and we weren't seeing any improvement. It's called progressive discipline. (Ironic how more than a few folks "asked" to be punished for their contact at the last event!) As Daron stated, we don't want to set ourselves up where the next guy who gets into someone is the "leper". We've seen it time and time again where the torch bearers today are tomorrow's leper. We have to think more long term and avoid the trends. In our racing, we do not have a system where "1 contact and you're out"...."2 wheels off and you're black flagged"...or "pass only on the straights after being acknowledged and pointed by". There's a place for that and most of us have been there. (I opentracked for many years...it's where I came from. 8) )

#3- Read the CCR regarding the "driver points system". We haven't had to worry too much about it in the past because folks weren't reaching their max point level to be concerned. With multiple contacts by a single person, we very well could see the driver points system imposed on folks very soon. 'nuff said.

#4- Mentor/Education/Discussion..they're all good. I'll bring my two 1:12th scale Exxon Tiger racecars to do a repeat of the "rules of the road" demonstration I did last year. (Most of the veterans weren't there, but it would help if they could be there this time.) This will be a great format for open discussion with CM and the others to build on.

#5- The 11 O'Clock News Perception- Yes, the other regions have seen our videos and some are coy-ly concerned. The videos are fast paced and edited for excitement...and for entertainment purposes. Like I've told some of the folks in other regions...that 13 minute video represented over 30 driver views over the course of 7 events, 24 races and at least 480 minutes of track time. (Pretty small snapshot to make an overarching opinion if you ask me.) FACT- Tonight I watched the video and recorded the # of contacts and # of off-road excursions in the 13 minutes of "MTV AI/CMC". The answer...7 contacts and 12 off tracks...that's it. (We had 7 (mostly) minor contacts and probably that many offtracks at our last event alone!!!) I'm not condoning them, just stating that the video comes off as chaotic to the uninformed, however, I bet the other regions have had 7 contacts and 12 off track excursions in a year. So, yes, as the series has grown, the contacts have unfortunately grown. It's great that we are self-checking that now and we'll look for progressive discipline, the driver points system and more dialog/discussion/education/mentoring/mutual respect to further keep things in check...but let's not let the "media" and "rumors" from those who weren't there dictate how we run the show.

I heard it somewhere before that going forward there's a "New Norm" in Texas...it's now up to us to make it happen.

-=- Todd

TEXAST1
04-05-2006, 04:18 PM
I didn't originally read this post clearly. I am with Patterson. The original wording was a slam at Racecraft. Sounds like passing the buck. I do appreciate the corrections and positive feedback.

Guys need to take responsabilty for their own actions on the track. We can only do so much preparation and take you so far. Most of you obviously stopped listening sometime the first day and completely ignored the 2nd day. :roll: Learn by application and Seat time. There is no excuse for poor driving or not beaing aware of your enviroment.

I was using your race as a classroom session when several of you decided to blow by 3 yellow corner stations and Gran Torismo each other. We need to back to the basics. Warm-up and Cool-down we acknowledge each corner worker station so we know where each one is! :oops: :wink:

Seriously, I am always available and accessible at the track and can either help with questions or show you.

RichardP
04-05-2006, 05:38 PM
Guys need to take responsabilty for their own actions on the track.

Wow, you're asking for a lot there. It's completely ingrained in current American culture that it's always someone else’s fault.

Don't feel bad about the attack on Racecraft, though. A few weeks ago the blame was squarely on the corner workers and the poor corner worker stations. You see, it’s just not possible to see the stations and the flags. Of course the same ones complaining were the people who can tell you what color eyes the girl with big boobies working station three has. :roll:


Richard Pedersen
#91 LX 5.0

CMC17
04-05-2006, 06:06 PM
Guys need to take responsabilty for their own actions on the track.

Wow, you're asking for a lot there. It's completely ingrained in current American culture that it's always someone else’s fault.

Don't feel bad about the attack on Racecraft, though. A few weeks ago the blame was squarely on the corner workers and the poor corner worker stations. You see, it’s just not possible to see the stations and the flags. Of course the same ones complaining were the people who can tell you what color eyes the girl with big boobies working station three has. :roll:


Richard Pedersen
#91 LX 5.0

If the penalties outlined in the CCR would be given to those type infractions, I bet we wouldn't see them anymore. There is no excuse for not paying attentin (myself included)

- Passing under a standing yellow or double yellow: Reposition to last place (minimum)
- Passing under waving yellow and / or over-driving any yellow: Disqualification (minimum)

- Passing under a standing yellow or double yellow: Two (2) points
- Passing under waving yellow and/or over-driving any yellow: Three (3) points

Todd Covini
04-05-2006, 10:36 PM
If the penalties outlined in the CCR would be given to those type infractions, I bet we wouldn't see them anymore. There is not excuse for not paying attentin (myself included)

- Passing under a standing yellow or double yellow: Reposition to last place (minimum)
- Passing under waving yellow and / or over-driving any yellow: Disqualification (minimum)

- Passing under a standing yellow or double yellow: Two (2) points
- Passing under waving yellow and/or over-driving any yellow: Three (3) points

Excellent, Eric!!!
Now can anyone else in the class tell me what the CCR penalties are for over-agressive driving? ...for unsportsmanlike conduct??

Remember class, when the IRB meets, the CCR interpretations and decisions based on the facts are made by NASA,....not the racer. So as everyone is throwing stones, and demanding order in the court, some of you (not all) sincerely believe that "the other guy" was entirely at fault and "he should be punished"...which may or may not necessarily be the case. :wink:

So let's remember this noble discussion at future events and all agree to abide by the trackside investigation results and penalties handed out after the decisions, as outlined in the CCR, are made by NASA.

I'll be there for you if you have any questions or need an RFA form.

<Cheers!>

Your homework for the weekend will be to read the section on "Appeals Process", or in simpler terms, when you don't agree with the penalties that were imposed as outlined in the CCR. (That's a pretty clear, easy to read section as well.)

Hear the sucking sound??? That's the vacuum left as the fun quickly goes away and we all become proficient race lawyers!

The "New Norm" will prevent all of this and it's our responsiblity to make it happen.

-=- T

chris-CMC#35
04-05-2006, 11:44 PM
I swear, if any of youse guys slows down and starts messing with me at the back of the pack, I'm gonna...heck, I think I'll have fun racing. :D

No, I'm not in any way dissing this thread. Just trying to have fun, while sitting up here in Colorado, 1000 miles from a car that needs some work. Anybody want to go by my storage locker and change the oil, attach an oil cooler scoop, ...?

Mike Bell
04-06-2006, 06:02 AM
So let's remember this noble discussion at future events and all agree to abide by the trackside investigation results and penalties handed out after the decisions, as outlined in the CCR, are made by NASA.

I'll be there for you if you have any questions or need an RFA form.



TC, et al:

Two sides to this horse, one end has a prettier view. I feel that there was a high number of contact incidents at the last event. I am at fault for part of that high number. I am willing to accept the penalties as outlined in the CCR's and am NOT ASKING for anything less.

I don't do this out of some masochistic perspective, I do this because it's not important how many points I have but rather how the OTHER DRIVER FEELS ABOUT RACING WITH ME. If I were Nick I'd be going ballistic right now, he isn't a hot head loud mouth like me so he's been quiet about the issue and while I respect his demeanor I do not think he's getting a fair deal here. And I'm getting off easy due to a tragedy that weekend? Man, this end of the horse smells bad and that smell is on me too.

Now, with that said, if the situation was reversed and some other CMC driver slobberknocked me when I was ahead of him and had the right to the line I'd be jumping up and down screaming "foul" and expecting the CCR's to be applied as written. (sad how easy it is to imagine that scene huh?) ;)

I think most of us got into this Series and Class because we liked the way NASA spelled out the rules and handled contact by defining who is at fault and how it would be handled. Seems to me that in order to continue to discourage contact we need to have the CCR's applied equally and fully to EVERY contact incident as deemed appropriate by an IRB.

I mean, aren't we all trying to interpret the rules on our own already? That's lawyering for sure, 'cept we ain't gettin paid lol.

mitchntx
04-06-2006, 08:16 AM
Hear the sucking sound??? That's the vacuum left as the fun quickly goes away and we all become proficient race lawyers!


That vacum sound is the sound of a body shop emptying a bank account.

No one is advocating no contact, period. We all know it will happen ... this is racing.

What I'm advocating is that if contact occurs from a bonehead move, then the consequences will be swift, just and public.

It's quite simple, actually.

CMC17
04-06-2006, 08:39 AM
If the penalties outlined in the CCR would be given to those type infractions, I bet we wouldn't see them anymore. There is not excuse for not paying attentin (myself included)

- Passing under a standing yellow or double yellow: Reposition to last place (minimum)
- Passing under waving yellow and / or over-driving any yellow: Disqualification (minimum)

- Passing under a standing yellow or double yellow: Two (2) points
- Passing under waving yellow and/or over-driving any yellow: Three (3) points

Excellent, Eric!!!
Now can anyone else in the class tell me what the CCR penalties are for over-agressive driving? ...for unsportsmanlike conduct??

Remember class, when the IRB meets, the CCR interpretations and decisions based on the facts are made by NASA,....not the racer. So as everyone is throwing stones, and demanding order in the court, some of you (not all) sincerely believe that "the other guy" was entirely at fault and "he should be punished"...which may or may not necessarily be the case. :wink:

So let's remember this noble discussion at future events and all agree to abide by the trackside investigation results and penalties handed out after the decisions, as outlined in the CCR, are made by NASA.

I'll be there for you if you have any questions or need an RFA form.

<Cheers!>

Your homework for the weekend will be to read the section on "Appeals Process", or in simpler terms, when you don't agree with the penalties that were imposed as outlined in the CCR. (That's a pretty clear, easy to read section as well.)

Hear the sucking sound??? That's the vacuum left as the fun quickly goes away and we all become proficient race lawyers!

The "New Norm" will prevent all of this and it's our responsiblity to make it happen.

-=- T

ah.. very clear and no need for the /sarcasm on /sarcasm off as it was painfully apparent.

michaelmosty
04-06-2006, 09:43 AM
[quote="RichardP"]Of course the same ones complaining were the people who can tell you what color eyes the girl with big boobies working station three has. :roll:

I obviously need to pay more attention to station #3 during the April event. :lol:

<the above statement was meant as a joke>

gt40
04-06-2006, 09:50 AM
I volunteer to lead a lunchtime (or dinnertime) discussion on situational awareness.

Please let me know if you are interested.Certainly!

gt40
04-06-2006, 10:07 AM
What I'm advocating is that if contact occurs from a bonehead move, then the consequences will be swift, just and public.This bears repeating. Consequences from on-track incidents need to be very, very public. I'm not saying we need scarlet-letter treatment for the offenders, but the rest of the group needs to be made aware or and reminded that on-track behaviour is being scrutinized and acted upon.

If someone gets punished for passing under a yellow, other folks will be forced to review the race in their own mind and see if they did the something similar. Ideally , I'd like to see this done immediately after a race -- a debriefing session of sorts. Think of it as impound for all the drivers.

TEXAST1
04-06-2006, 01:40 PM
I like the idea of a scarlet letter. Lets everone know where you stand. :wink: