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marshall_mosty
03-26-2007, 12:48 PM
With all the possible flavors of brake pads out there, how does one find the "right" pad for their combination?

I know that some calipers have more available than others, but most of us have at least 6-8 different compounts.

Just a smigen of the offereings that I found are:

Carbotech
XP8
XP10
XP12
XP16

Cobalt
VR (discontinued as of 01/06)

Ferrodo
DS3000

Hawk
9012 Blue
HT-10
HT-14
DTC-60
DTC-70

Pagid
RS4 (Orange)
RS14 (Black)

PFC
97
01

Porterfield
R4
R4E

GlennCMC70
03-26-2007, 12:50 PM
use what the guy whos faster than you use's. :P

RichardP
03-26-2007, 12:59 PM
I use the R4 pad on the front and generic Autozone lifetime replacement warranty pads on the rear.


Richard P.

Al Fernandez
03-26-2007, 02:55 PM
Through Tony G you can probably do sufficiently better on the Carbotechs price wise than anything else to justify writting off the other ones. If that is true, then pick the front based on heat capacity and your car/brake system, then pick the rears to match.

If price isnt a factor...then the same applies but you're likely to go through many many more iterations of experimenting before you settle on something you like.

marshall_mosty
03-26-2007, 04:16 PM
Al,
I've already been through a two different sets of Carbotech pads. XP-10's (2 weekends) and a set of XP-16's (2 weekends plus one day).

I'd like to find something that can last maybe... half a season??

GlennCMC70
03-26-2007, 04:27 PM
i'm getting at least 4 weekends on fronts. my current fronts have been on since the day before TWS last year. this also includes Nationals. i checked them just last week and i'm sure i'll get TWS in April out of them too.
my guess is your not bedding them correctly.

marshall_mosty
03-26-2007, 04:51 PM
I don't know what I did wrong... followed the instructions to the "T". For the XP-16's (the last set), I went to MSR-C and ran a member day on the 1.7. Went out for about a 15 minute session bringing the brakes up to temp gradually until I was pushing 9/10's on the last lap before cooling down a lap.

Parked the car and waited for the calipers/pads/rotors to come down to ambient temp (low 60's that day)...

I'm confused.

GlennCMC70
03-26-2007, 05:01 PM
that is NOT how Carbotech says to bed pads. read the little note that comes w/ them.
30 mph, hard stop.
40 mph, hard stop.
60 mph, hard stop.
rinse and repeat. put the car up for at least a day.
and i have no cooling ducts on the car, so my results are not due to that.

marshall_mosty
03-26-2007, 10:30 PM
Proper bedding of pads and rotors will result in greater performance and longevity of both pads & rotors.

1. All new brake pads/shoes require a bedding process; start the process by pumping your brakes a few times to assure proper installation. Once on track perform several moderate (medium) speed near stops (usually requires at least two laps) to thoroughly warm up the pads/shoes and rotors. This transfers a thin layer of the pad material to the micro-grooves present on all rotors.

2. After the pads and rotors are warm, perform a series of hard near stops until some brake fade is felt. Do not lock the tires. Once this occurs, slow down immeadatly and stay off the brakes (as much as possible) and bring the vehicle into the pits or paddock.

3. Allow the brake pads and/or rotors to cool down to ambient temperature; NOT less than 30 minutes.


WARNING: Failure to properly bed in your pads could cause the friction material to chunk and break up resulting in poor pad performance and pad life. This can lead to overheating and cause your pads to glaze. Glazed pads can result in the vehicle not being able to slow properly or stop.

I ran the car for enough laps to get the "series of hard near stops" completed...

Adam Ginsberg
03-26-2007, 11:33 PM
Cobalt
VR

BTW - this particular compound is no longer available, in any outline, from Cobalt. They stopped producing them in late '05, with the last 2 sets of PBR/D412 outlines shipped to TX in early '06.

The replacement is the XR/XR2, however, it's unknown when the new compound will be made available to the general public for the outlines we typically use.

I wasn't particularly thrilled with the lifespan of the VR's - 2 weekends/4 hours was the best I ever got from a set, regardless of bedding procedures. Hopefully, the new compound will survive longer - only time will tell over the next few months.

marshall_mosty
03-27-2007, 08:22 AM
Thanks Adam,
I'll revise the list. I know Michael wasn't too thrilled that he couldn't order any replacement pads.

Hopefully the new compound, whenever it is released will live a bit longer.

Al Fernandez
04-02-2007, 09:27 AM
Marshall, how are your rotors holding out? You're running essentially the cobra package right? 13" one piece rotors and pbr dual piston calipers? How come you jumped over the xp12s to the 16s? I cant seem to open their site so I cant see the specs on the pads right now.

mitchntx
04-12-2007, 06:29 AM
I am thoroughly impressed with XP12s. initial bite was about the same as 10s, but took a LOT less pedal pressure to achieve the same braking.

Rotors look a little beat up, but they are cheap at $20 each. If I can get double the life from the pads, I'll buy cheap rotors.

y5e06
04-12-2007, 09:01 AM
I am thoroughly impressed with XP12s. initial bite was about the same as 10s, but took a LOT less pedal pressure to achieve the same braking.
thats interesting. I ran 12's in front for a while but noticed very little difference or benefit from running them vs the 10's... so I went back to 10's this year as the 12s just cost more.

AllZWay
04-12-2007, 09:51 AM
For the record... as I have not ran 10's or 12's, but I am running 9's and I like them.

marshall_mosty
04-12-2007, 11:17 AM
Marshall, how are your rotors holding out?
Rotors look fine after two weekends.



You're running essentially the cobra package right? 13" one piece rotors and pbr dual piston calipers?
That was the setup I was running in Feb and March of this year.



How come you jumped over the xp12s to the 16s? I cant seem to open their site so I cant see the specs on the pads right now.
According to the CarboTech "Tech", the XP-16's are the "endurance" pad version of the 12's. They were supposed to be more rotor aggressive and last longer. I just didn't see that.


I guess there is always the limit to the OEM hardware.

GlennCMC70
09-20-2007, 03:06 PM
talked w/ the Carbo Tech guys this past weekend at Mid Ohio. we talked about the difference in pad wear rates that some are seeing compaired to what i'm seeing. he said it was due to improper bedding. not sure if its not enough heat or too much.
that being said, i use the street break-in proceedure.

marshall_mosty
09-20-2007, 09:47 PM
Thanks Glenn. Since switching to the StopTech's, I inherited a half used set of PFC01 pads. They are great!

It's going to be hard for me to switch since the brakes have worked so flawlessly over the last two outings.

AI#97
11-09-2007, 12:11 PM
well, to chime in here a bit...I am no longer running the carbotech XP12's. I loaned a set to donovan at TMS and he didn't like them compared to the PFC 01's...

So I tried the 01's at Houston on Sunday...me like! I have found my pad for the front and the rear XP8's are just fine. I like this balance a lot and I don't even have a proportioning valve and still have rubber lines in the rear...I know, i am trying to find someone that makes them. found a set I am going to try in the offseason.

funny thing was on Sunday in Qual, I was bedding pads and ran a 44.9.

As far as bedding Carbotechs, I think the procedure is to go out with 4 laps at 7/10ths and then do one flying 105% lap then cool. I usually got 4 or 5 events out of fronts and that was only down to about 3/8 pad left and I would chuck them.

donovan
11-09-2007, 01:14 PM
PF01's are the bomb!

jeffburch
11-09-2007, 02:47 PM
MW,
Why not construct your own lines?
Compression beats swedged in my opinion.
Ask Mike Mosty.

jb

AI#97
11-09-2007, 03:13 PM
MW,
Why not construct your own lines?
Compression beats swedged in my opinion.
Ask Mike Mosty.

jb

The lines on the rear of my car are a little weird. the main line comes back to the rear axle, has a flex line to the axle, then a hard line over to the right rear caliper where it Y's off to another hard line to the left rear. So, there are 3 flex lines on the rear. Up till about 2 months ago, nobody made a kit for it. I did find a kit from Jeg's that Goodrich just started making. I have it at the house but have yet to put it on. I was about to then started contemplating re-working the entire setup on the rear to have equal length lines to each caliper from and eliminating one flex line. Upon further thinking...I decided if the kit works, I will have easy access to spares and the current system seems to be working just fine for now.

I think during the off season, I am going to sit down and fine tune a bunch of little stuff I have neglected for 2 years...like cutting out the plastic holders all over the inside of the car that were for interior trim pieces, sound deadening material to finally be removed, grind down some sharp spots in the floor pan, lower the rear view mirror (not that I need it! :wink: ) and build a cover for the stock dash guages to kill glare. Basically some work to make it not look like a rolling pile of shoo didley any more. :lol:

michaelmosty
11-09-2007, 04:38 PM
Compression beats swedged in my opinion.
Ask Mike Mosty.

jb
NEVER buy anything from discbrakesrus.com!!!! :x

marshall_mosty
11-09-2007, 05:33 PM
Matt,
I modified my brake lines so all five flexible lines use the same replacement line. I have about 10 "spares" in the box. Granted, I spent $200 for the initial investment in hardware, but I have 14 lines for that price ($15 per line ain't bad, IMHO).

AI#97
11-09-2007, 06:19 PM
Compression beats swedged in my opinion.
Ask Mike Mosty.

jb
NEVER buy anything from discbrakesrus.com!!!! :x

Their hard parts are fine...just don't buy any brake lines from them!! :wink:

Marshal, that is what I WAS going to do. I made up a bunch of stainless lines for oil coolers and some other parts on the car and just got tired of it all...I especially didn't look forward to dealing with the small stuff.

If the kit works like it should I will post up about it.

GlennCMC70
11-09-2007, 06:51 PM
i used standard hard line from the parts stores. adapted that over to AN and used pre-made AN brake lines from the dirt track supply shop. they have been on the car for 3 years. i carry a full set of spares.