Roebling Road

1st HPDE this weekend ever this weekend at Roebling Road. 1st time to drive this car ever. Lot of 1st's.

Only had two days to prep the car for the first event. Needed a seat, seat belts, and a good overall inspection. Got it all done without too much problem. (forgot to check fluids DOH!)

Drove to Georgia to visit my brother and hit Roebling Road for HPDE1. My Excursion, trailer, and car inside the trailer were filthy from dirt roads where they all had been stored at while in Korea. So on our way from my brothers house to the track my wife and I stopped at a carwash. Pulled the car out, sprayed it down being careful not to spray inside. Car wouldn't start back up. DOH!! Mother *%&$^. Thought maybe the ECU inside had some water run down the wires and into the circuit board....not sure really. Got some help and pushed it into the trailer. Drove to Roebling Road and like a first time newb parked in someone else's territory (SpecE30). They helped me with the car some (mainly to get me out of their area probably lol). Swapped ECU, still nothing. Checked for spark, had good spark. Pulled the dizzy cap, no moisture, reinstalled. SpecE30 guy hits the start button and she fires up like nothing ever happened. Not sure WTF. Happy she's running, I moved and setup camp this time in accordance with the paddock map and drove to inspection.....no problems there.

Next day, class and then 1st track session. I realized I missed checking the fluids properly. So one last lug nut torque, tire pressure check, and I went ahead and checked fluids......NO WATER in the radiator. Started filling with water and it was pooring out a freeze plug that popped out. WONDERFUL. Missed that session. Its the one between the engine mount and the block, so we get a crow bar and pry it back into place hoping it holds. Cut a piece of wood and wedged it in there so it can't back out. This time, she held water. 2nd session rolls around and I go out on track with my instructor. Im super slow. Miatas, 4dr Mini Coopers, and a bone stock Ford Fusion among everything else on the track passes me as I am getting a feel for this car. Car ran great no problems. 3rd session I put on the rains that the previous owner included with the car as I go out in a torrential down poor. Learning a lot and not getting passed as much, the car ran great. Last session of the day car is running hot on the grid, and she stays at the 200* mark for 3 laps and starts climbing. Bring her in early and she's blowing steam from the left bank. GREAT....blown head gasket I think.

Wife and I frustrated, we go eat to relax. Come back after dark, jack up the car, look at it from underneath.....EVEN MORE BAD NEWS. Cracked engine block. FUCK ME. What a first experience with my new CMC racecar right? Well one good thing is the head gasket isnt blown, steam was just venting from the cracked water jackets. Drive back into town, buy some quickset JBWeld and some brake cleaner, returned to a thunderstorm and more down poors. Crawled in river flowing underneath my car to scrub the block with a steel brush and the brake cleaner. This water jacket was displaced by 1/8" with the crack 4" long in 3 directions. Mixed up the whole batch of JBWeld and pressed it into the cracks and smeared a thick coat over the entire side of the block and let it cure overnight while it rained all night.

Next morning nothing but sunshine and after class session, filled radiator with water....NO leaks at this point. Meet the instructor, and we grid. Ran the car balls to the wall, and learned how to drive this car and finding its limits. Learning the lines, breaking points, and trying to put eyes on the flag stations as I pass by. Speed came to me a little bit more and more each session. The car survived all 5 sessions today without even a trace of water leaking. JBWeld did the trick. Can't believe it. Solo'd the last two sessions of the day. What a blast. Still lots to learn.

Car runs great. Loving it. Gonna run it as-is at Memphis International Raceway next weekend and hopefully get checked out into HPDE2. We'll see. Fingers crossed this bubble gum repair holds as I have MIR and CMP scheduled in the upcoming weekends. I know Im on borrowed time with this crack, but I do not believe at stock power levels that we have a structural problem. Thoughts anyone??

Tire question: All my tires that came with the car are RA1s. I noticed AFTER I took off my rain tires that they were a little dry rotted on the treads....looked at the date codes and they are 15 years OLD!!! YIKES, I ran these at 130mph down the straights in the rain! Looked at the rest of the spares.....yea 12-15 years old. Only two of these tires appeared dry rotted, the rest look ok. Whats the thought on this? Discard the dry rotted tires, and run the rest that look ok? Or replace them all?

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Originally Posted by 64GunPilot

Tire question: All my tires that came with the car are RA1s. I noticed AFTER I took off my rain tires that they were a little dry rotted on the treads....looked at the date codes and they are 15 years OLD!!! YIKES, I ran these at 130mph down the straights in the rain! Looked at the rest of the spares.....yea 12-15 years old. Only two of these tires appeared dry rotted, the rest look ok. Whats the thought on this? Discard the dry rotted tires, and run the rest that look ok? Or replace them all?

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Nope, nope, nope, nope. Just my 2 ¢. I'm just an amateur race car mechanic but I've got a 77 Vette and already this spring I've seen too
many pictures on the C3 forums of blown up Corvette fenders because "they looked brand new" tires disintegrated at 50 or 60 mph.
When date codes were checked the tires were 9 or 10 years old. Realized last year that the tires on mine were 9 years old. Time for
new shoes - I'd guess the ones on the car probably have easily less than 1000 miles (were on the car when I bought it) and I wouldn't
be shocked to find out they have less than 500 miles on them. I know the car was driven less than 100 miles the year before I
bought it (personal toy of the owner of the dealership) and the story was that he got it from an old guy who had done some
of the restorative work and got to the point where he didn't/couldn't drive it any longer.

The problem is not with the tread on these tires, well besides that they are probably as hard as granite. It's the delamination of the
belts in the tire carcass. Unless you get a bubble or notice an egg shaped tire, you'll get the message when it's scattered all over
the track, probably in the middle of a high speed corner or at the top end of the long straight. Brown moment anyone?

The stupid part on the C3 is that RWL factory style replacement tires are stupid expensive because they are now a "specialty" tire
and only manufactured in limited batches. You might end up getting a 2 year old date coded tire from the"new" tire place.
Yea, Thanks Guys.

Nothing good happens when a tire reverts to some-assembly-required at 130 mph.

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Originally Posted by 39PitCrew

Nothing good happens when a tire reverts to some-assembly-required at 130 mph.

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It would be unfortunate to lose a car and risk injury for want of several hundred bucks of tires. No need to run Toyos for HPDE1/2 anyway. Street tires are cheaper, more forgiving, and tend to have more feedback.

I would not run any of those date codes. Most organizations in TX have a maximum tire age of 5 years.

- Josh

If you can connect with some AI/CMC racers in your area I'm sure they would give (or sell at a very low price) you some used RA1's. I have two or sets of four that have over 14 heat cycles on them and at least 1/3rd of their tread. I'm sure every CMC guy racing this year or last will have tires that are not fast enough to race on but plenty fast for a HPDE driver trying to build seat time. If you were around here I have a set you can have for free.....maybe two.


Jerry

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Originally Posted by ShadowBolt

If you were around here I have a set you can have for free.....maybe two.


Jerry

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Ooooo ... some cheater Mustang tires. Yes!
(With apologies to Jerry, I'm sure an OiF driver who shall remain unnamed has said that at some time or another.)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 64GunPilot

1st HPDE this weekend ever this weekend at Roebling Road. 1st time to drive this car ever. Lot of 1st's.

Only had two days to prep the car for the first event. Needed a seat, seat belts, and a good overall inspection. Got it all done without too much problem. (forgot to check fluids DOH!)

Drove to Georgia to visit my brother and hit Roebling Road for HPDE1. My Excursion, trailer, and car inside the trailer were filthy from dirt roads where they all had been stored at while in Korea. So on our way from my brothers house to the track my wife and I stopped at a carwash. Pulled the car out, sprayed it down being careful not to spray inside. Car wouldn't start back up. DOH!! Mother *%&$^. Thought maybe the ECU inside had some water run down the wires and into the circuit board....not sure really. Got some help and pushed it into the trailer. Drove to Roebling Road and like a first time newb parked in someone else's territory (SpecE30). They helped me with the car some (mainly to get me out of their area probably lol). Swapped ECU, still nothing. Checked for spark, had good spark. Pulled the dizzy cap, no moisture, reinstalled. SpecE30 guy hits the start button and she fires up like nothing ever happened. Not sure WTF. Happy she's running, I moved and setup camp this time in accordance with the paddock map and drove to inspection.....no problems there.

Next day, class and then 1st track session. I realized I missed checking the fluids properly. So one last lug nut torque, tire pressure check, and I went ahead and checked fluids......NO WATER in the radiator. Started filling with water and it was pooring out a freeze plug that popped out. WONDERFUL. Missed that session. Its the one between the engine mount and the block, so we get a crow bar and pry it back into place hoping it holds. Cut a piece of wood and wedged it in there so it can't back out. This time, she held water. 2nd session rolls around and I go out on track with my instructor. Im super slow. Miatas, 4dr Mini Coopers, and a bone stock Ford Fusion among everything else on the track passes me as I am getting a feel for this car. Car ran great no problems. 3rd session I put on the rains that the previous owner included with the car as I go out in a torrential down poor. Learning a lot and not getting passed as much, the car ran great. Last session of the day car is running hot on the grid, and she stays at the 200* mark for 3 laps and starts climbing. Bring her in early and she's blowing steam from the left bank. GREAT....blown head gasket I think.

Wife and I frustrated, we go eat to relax. Come back after dark, jack up the car, look at it from underneath.....EVEN MORE BAD NEWS. Cracked engine block. FUCK ME. What a first experience with my new CMC racecar right? Well one good thing is the head gasket isnt blown, steam was just venting from the cracked water jackets. Drive back into town, buy some quickset JBWeld and some brake cleaner, returned to a thunderstorm and more down poors. Crawled in river flowing underneath my car to scrub the block with a steel brush and the brake cleaner. This water jacket was displaced by 1/8" with the crack 4" long in 3 directions. Mixed up the whole batch of JBWeld and pressed it into the cracks and smeared a thick coat over the entire side of the block and let it cure overnight while it rained all night.

Next morning nothing but sunshine and after class session, filled radiator with water....NO leaks at this point. Meet the instructor, and we grid. Ran the car balls to the wall, and learned how to drive this car and finding its limits. Learning the lines, breaking points, and trying to put eyes on the flag stations as I pass by. Speed came to me a little bit more and more each session. The car survived all 5 sessions today without even a trace of water leaking. JBWeld did the trick. Can't believe it. Solo'd the last two sessions of the day. What a blast. Still lots to learn.

Car runs great. Loving it. Gonna run it as-is at Memphis International Raceway next weekend and hopefully get checked out into HPDE2. We'll see. Fingers crossed this bubble gum repair holds as I have MIR and CMP scheduled in the upcoming weekends. I know Im on borrowed time with this crack, but I do not believe at stock power levels that we have a structural problem. Thoughts anyone??

Tire question: All my tires that came with the car are RA1s. I noticed AFTER I took off my rain tires that they were a little dry rotted on the treads....looked at the date codes and they are 15 years OLD!!! YIKES, I ran these at 130mph down the straights in the rain! Looked at the rest of the spares.....yea 12-15 years old. Only two of these tires appeared dry rotted, the rest look ok. Whats the thought on this? Discard the dry rotted tires, and run the rest that look ok? Or replace them all?

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I'd start getting the parts and pieces together to replace that engine block...also consider an LS swap if your car isn't already (I don't remember from your previous posts). We have enough difficulty getting engines to hold together in the base case, let alone with a crack pookyed (technical term) up w/ JB Weld.

Also -- if you're just running DE pick up a set of 200TW street tires, see other thread on that -- I'd rather have a consistent tire to learn on then risk driving around on hard as rocks old stuff. Pick up some RR's when you're ready to come race.

I was gonna suggest a 5.3 swap as well. You can run the truck accessories everybody throws away.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ShadowBolt

If you can connect with some AI/CMC racers in your area I'm sure they would give (or sell at a very low price) you some used RA1's. I have two or sets of four that have over 14 heat cycles on them and at least 1/3rd of their tread. I'm sure every CMC guy racing this year or last will have tires that are not fast enough to race on but plenty fast for a HPDE driver trying to build seat time. If you were around here I have a set you can have for free.....maybe two.


Jerry

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Im a Texas guy (sorta) but in Alabama for a couple months for training. Using this time to get some DE weekends with the car in different regions. I'll gladly take any tires that have tread left that are being discarded and/or pay it in beer. Problem is, Im still on 16" wheels. I see the R888R's are a decent price for the sizes I can run (255/50/16). My best tires at the moment are 7 years old, however I am very surprised at how grippy they are. Certainly not hard like most think. Even the dry rotted tires held great in the rain (before I realized they were 15yrs old).

I have my 2nd DE at Memphis next weekend. I think Im gonna wrap a new set of R888R's and run them for safety and piece of mind. Gonna dismount and discard all these old tires.

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I'd start getting the parts and pieces together to replace that engine block...also consider an LS swap if your car isn't already (I don't remember from your previous posts). We have enough difficulty getting engines to hold together in the base case, let alone with a crack pookyed (technical term) up w/ JB Weld.

Also -- if you're just running DE pick up a set of 200TW street tires, see other thread on that -- I'd rather have a consistent tire to learn on then risk driving around on hard as rocks old stuff. Pick up some RR's when you're ready to come race.

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Yea, Im gonna find a machine shop this week and see about getting a block prepped. Im hoping to swap the internals over myself when there is a break between events. Im still hoping to meet you guys in Hallett in HPDE 3/4 in June. I doubt I'll have time to break this TPI engine down and rebuild it before then. So I may be running this JBWelded engine then. I'll report back after MIR this weekend. As for the tires, there arent a lot of options for 255 16" tires. R888Rs are around $675 shipped. So this is my plan for now.

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I was gonna suggest a 5.3 swap as well. You can run the truck accessories everybody throws away.

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An LS swap sounds great, but I'm slow when it comes to stuff like that. It'll take me months to do an LS swap (if I do it all on my own without help). But honestly, my first experience this weekend with the TPI......Im impressed. I really liked its power. It was a very balanced car. Torque curves were perfect. At the moment, Im kinda like a teenager that just met his first love even though she's ugly.

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Originally Posted by 64GunPilot

An LS swap sounds great, but I'm slow when it comes to stuff like that. It'll take me months to do an LS swap (if I do it all on my own without help).

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Pfft. Based on what you posted here, you just need a parts list. I'll make sure Sean checks here and gets with you. In fact, we might have an LS/T56 or T5 combo we could come up with. Computer and harness is the fairly easy part.

Welcome to the fun that is CMC.

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Originally Posted by Fbody383

Pfft. Based on what you posted here, you just need a parts list. I'll make sure Sean checks here and gets with you. In fact, we might have an LS/T56 or T5 combo we could come up with. Computer and harness is the fairly easy part.

Welcome to the fun that is CMC.

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Thanks for the vote of confidence. Ive been wanting to try the spec engine routes. I have a vortec 350 in need of a rebuild. Might have it built per the rule book. I don’t know. Who knows....it’s possible that this JBWeld will hold up a long time. Might even last through Hallett.

On another note, I found some 255/50/16 RA1s x 4 on eBay for $480 shipped. It wouldn’t make it to me in time for this weekend at Memphis, so bought some 888s from tirerack $650. Gonna discard ALL 16 tires I got with the sale of the car (disappointing). But feels better to know I’m on new shoes.

I'm an overwhelming fan of EFI and 5.3s are cheap. Your T5 should bolt right up too, just a matter of clutch trickery to make that work.

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Originally Posted by 64GunPilot

Im still hoping to meet you guys in Hallett in HPDE 3/4 in June.

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If you bring all the 5.3 parts and enough beer to Hallett, the AI/CMC camp will have that swap done before dinner time on Friday! :D:D:D

- Josh

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Originally Posted by Sook

If you bring all the 5.3 parts and enough beer to Hallett, the AI/CMC camp will have that swap done before dinner time on Friday! :D:D:D

- Josh

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Ok. Well looks like this weekend at MIR (Memphis) is cancelled due to weather. I guess its supposed to rain cats n dogs. Anyways, that gives me some time. If I can get a parts list for the 5.3 swap, I'll start pricing it out and shopping around the junk yards here in Alabama. I'll also be looking at other forums for swap info too. Going into research mode now.

I have done several LS conversions and put together a couple LS cars from scratch. I have a excel spread sheet of all the parts needed to convert a LT1 fourth gen to a LS1. It does not have everything you would need to do a 3rd gen to LS the file does have a lot of part numbers and stuff you would need to convert. If you are interested shoot me a email. Bobden10@gmail.com
Bob

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Originally Posted by Den34

I have done several LS conversions and put together a couple LS cars from scratch. I have a excel spread sheet of all the parts needed to convert a LT1 fourth gen to a LS1. It does not have everything you would need to do a 3rd gen to LS the file does have a lot of part numbers and stuff you would need to convert. If you are interested shoot me a email. Bobden10@gmail.com
Bob

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Thank you for sending me the spreadsheet. Very helpful. Still weighing options.

The LS is definitely worth the price of admission, but damn the price of admission is a bitch.

My advice is to find a clean used replacement block for what you have now and just drop it in and send it! Getting harder to find clean 305/350s these days but maybe an old vortec pull out can fit the bill.

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Originally Posted by Pranav

My advice is to find a clean used replacement block for what you have now and just drop it in and send it! Getting harder to find clean 305/350s these days but maybe an old vortec pull out can fit the bill.

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shoot, 350's are still out there in abundance. Last trip to the pick and pull I walked by 7 of them, and i was just glancing and not shopping. Last long block I got someone just gave me... for free, and it is in good shape.

Vortec shortblock will work just fine, as long as you're running an electric fuel pump. vortecs and most TBI blocks don't have the mechanical fuel pump boss fully machined.

Oh wow gotcha, thought they were just crushing pre 2000 stuff nowadays.

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Originally Posted by Pranav

Oh wow gotcha, thought they were just crushing pre 2000 stuff nowadays.

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A quick call to a few salvage yards around me here in Alabama, asking for a Chevrolet 305 engine and they ask “say again what kind of engine?” I say 305 Chevy they say “ oh no we don’t have stuff that old around here, we recycle all those old Chevy 5.0s. Nobody ever wants a 305”. I found one though supposedly was a good engine 3yrs ago but has been in the dirt under plywood asking $250. Found rebuilt short blocks in Tyler Tx for $700. Not sure which direction I’ll go yet.

Just outta curiosity, why is the LS such a great investment for the track? Torque Curves? Maintainability? Cost of ownership? What is all the hype about? Maybe I need a ride along to see/feel the difference. Because right now, I’m super impressed with my first love (this 305 TPI w/vortec heads).

I have a roller 305 Tpi motor complete 1.6 roller rockers it even has the lower intake manifold for Tpi Will need to be rebuilt rear main seal was leaking oil but was running when I pulled it out of my race car. I have lots of Tpi Parts also if you’re interested you can have it all with the motor. I even have a brand new wire harness ( painless in the box, and a computer 7730)
If you’re interested PM me :cool:

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Originally Posted by 64GunPilot

A quick call to a few salvage yards around me here in Alabama, asking for a Chevrolet 305 engine and they ask “say again what kind of engine?” I say 305 Chevy they say “ oh no we don’t have stuff that old around here, we recycle all those old Chevy 5.0s. Nobody ever wants a 305”. I found one though supposedly was a good engine 3yrs ago but has been in the dirt under plywood asking $250. Found rebuilt short blocks in Tyler Tx for $700. Not sure which direction I’ll go yet.

Just outta curiosity, why is the LS such a great investment for the track? Torque Curves? Maintainability? Cost of ownership? What is all the hype about? Maybe I need a ride along to see/feel the difference. Because right now, I’m super impressed with my first love (this 305 TPI w/vortec heads).

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The LSx is great because it doesn't do things like crack water jackets and have TPI issues. Ask Pranav Patel...

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Originally Posted by drecords

The LSx is great because it doesn't do things like crack water jackets and have TPI issues. Ask Pranav Patel...

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The cracked water jackets is my fault. I want to make this clear. My first human reaction to my discovery was to blame the previous owner assuming he knew of the problem and dumped it off on me (me having not thoroughly inspecting the car buying it on complete faith). But, I went to California and picked it up in December and it sat at my sister's house while I returned to Korea. Historical weather shows February 8th it got down below 22*F for a period of about 26hours. I feel like this was the moment that the block cracked.

Conclusion: My fault.

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Originally Posted by Sook

If you bring all the 5.3 parts and enough beer to Hallett, the AI/CMC camp will have that swap done before dinner time on Friday! :D:D:D

- Josh

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You're not wrong! LOL

LS 5.3 pros:
Neutral balance on both sides of crank
6 bolt mains
World class ignition system
Lighter and more compact than 350/305

With a 5.3, all you need to is get the comp cam beehive springs, retainers, and locks and you have a rotating assembly that can go north of 7k but you are limited to 6k. It will last forever. The smaller 5.3 slugs and lowered lift cam means everything thing is understressed, then with a 260hp limit it's barely working hard.

Cons:
Oil control is a bitch, at a minimum you want a crank scraper and an accusump for extra insurance.
Valve covers are shallow so you have to do some worth with catch cans and a late ls6 valley plate to keep oil out of the intake. I got this locked down and adds maybe $200 to the build
Alternator needs an oversized pulley
Power steering pump reservoir can and should be relocated if you are using Camaro accessories

Truck accessories work much better with the third GEN and their dirt cheap!