Race Formats

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10-30-2014, 10:06 AM
mach1

Race Formats

So, after some talk about a 2-3 race format, it appears that most are against it. I am just curious as to the reasons?
If we did a 40m race on lets say Sat, and a 25m+20m on Sunday, that would give us more time on the track.
As discussed at TWS, the clock starts when the cars leave gird and the checker is dropped with ~2-3m until the next group goes out, we could remove some of that waste with a single long race. I think one of the issues was the fact that some of us don't have the fuel capacity for a 40m(35m running) race.
10-30-2014, 10:41 AM
AllZWay

Quote:

Originally Posted by mach1

So, after some talk about a 2-3 race format, it appears that most are against it. I am just curious as to the reasons?
If we did a 40m race on lets say Sat, and a 25m+20m on Sunday, that would give us more time on the track.
As discussed at TWS, the clock starts when the cars leave gird and the checker is dropped with ~2-3m until the next group goes out, we could remove some of that waste with a single long race. I think one of the issues was the fact that some of us don't have the fuel capacity for a 40m(35m running) race.

IMHO.... Generally those longer races get very boring as the cars get spread out and it reduces the inverts to just one per weekend. I don't mind a longer final race, especially for the Summer Shootout though.
10-30-2014, 11:17 AM
JMR81

The 30/30/45 format is the best I've seen. 20min races become 17min race and the cars at the back, cmc get screwed. If the cars get spread out that's not a factor of race length that just car and driver. some will say that they don't have the gas to run for 45min but at Nationals nobody ran out and there was close racing through out the field. Not a big fan of inverts just another opportunity for cars to be bunched up at the start and increase the chance of damage or out of class contact. How much time is wasted on standing starts/ if you only have a 20 min race and your doing a pace lap you have already lost racing time and then you spend another 15 or 20sec to do a standing start more wasted time. Depending on the track length your down to a 5lap race big fricken whoop not really a race in my book. We all spend to much money on cars, equipment, travel and entry fees.
its easier for me to support the format we ran at Hallet than what we do now.
10-30-2014, 12:51 PM
AI#97

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMR81

The 30/30/45 format is the best I've seen. 20min races become 17min race and the cars at the back, cmc get screwed. If the cars get spread out that's not a factor of race length that just car and driver. some will say that they don't have the gas to run for 45min but at Nationals nobody ran out and there was close racing through out the field. Not a big fan of inverts just another opportunity for cars to be bunched up at the start and increase the chance of damage or out of class contact. How much time is wasted on standing starts/ if you only have a 20 min race and your doing a pace lap you have already lost racing time and then you spend another 15 or 20sec to do a standing start more wasted time. Depending on the track length your down to a 5lap race big fricken whoop not really a race in my book. We all spend to much money on cars, equipment, travel and entry fees.
its easier for me to support the format we ran at Hallet than what we do now.

Keep in mind that following the 2 or 3 race format will dedicate more time to 4 HPDE groups instead of just 2, and possibly 2 time trial groups instead of 1 as that group grows....then, the number of race groups will have to reduce to accommodate which means blitz and Thunder would combine (possibly). It's a double edged sword. I think 4-25 minute races is the best solution especially given the fatigue factor with the heat here in Texas during the middle of our season. I REALLY don't want to install a cool suit setup and have to deal with that through the weekend. If race groups begin to combine and have 60+ cars, then you have to deal with different schedules/formats for the shorter tracks or tracks that don't have grid space for that large of a run group.

The potentially better scenario is limiting NASA HPDE to just a single comp school run group and let the other 7 to 10 HPDE organizations get people on track (think HPDE 1-3) where NASA takes them on the next step to TT or W2W....it would also eliminate a few "Free" entries by not needing instructors... This frees up a TON of race group time and we could even possibly go 4-30 or 35 minute races. IT's just a hard sell to convince nasa to turn away HPDE entries and only concentrate on the racing groups.

Hard to balance.
10-30-2014, 01:30 PM
ShadowBolt

Quote:

Originally Posted by AI#97

Keep in mind that following the 2 or 3 race format will dedicate more time to 4 HPDE groups instead of just 2, and possibly 2 time trial groups instead of 1 as that group grows....then, the number of race groups will have to reduce to accommodate which means blitz and Thunder would combine (possibly). It's a double edged sword. I think 4-25 minute races is the best solution especially given the fatigue factor with the heat here in Texas during the middle of our season. I REALLY don't want to install a cool suit setup and have to deal with that through the weekend. If race groups begin to combine and have 60+ cars, then you have to deal with different schedules/formats for the shorter tracks or tracks that don't have grid space for that large of a run group.

The potentially better scenario is limiting NASA HPDE to just a single comp school run group and let the other 7 to 10 HPDE organizations get people on track (think HPDE 1-3) where NASA takes them on the next step to TT or W2W....it would also eliminate a few "Free" entries by not needing instructors... This frees up a TON of race group time and we could even possibly go 4-30 or 35 minute races. IT's just a hard sell to convince nasa to turn away HPDE entries and only concentrate on the racing groups.

Hard to balance.

I agree with MFW. As a Team driver I like four races. Like I said in my other post I remember Dave saying he was going to get rid of what we used to call practice and make our first race 25 minutes and the invert 20. Four 25 minute races is a good deal for us if we can get it. Even with our short races it does not take the trophy Girls long to get to the front. Hell even I won two races on inverts starting third from last and fourth from last so I'm not buying it's not long enough. JMHO

JJ
10-30-2014, 08:54 PM
michaelmosty

IMO, its all about the bang for the buck. On Toyo races, the first few laps are always good and then it spreads out. There is still great racing throughout and plenty of time to "make your move", but it definitely slows down in the excitement factor.
On the inverts, it is pretty much action packed from start to finish. By far the most exciting races of the weekend.
If there is a greater chance of in-class contact or out-of-class contact then that is on the driver, not the race format.

I am a fan of moving some of the "practice" time to "race" time and I definitely love the 4-races / weekend. Regardless, I look forward to seeing everyone this weekend!!!