2020 Season Opener - MSR-H **Time to Sign-Up**

All,
MSR-H is right around the corner. Please make sure you have your comp license renewed and your medical is current. I won't be at the event but Michael will be available to do annual tech inspection ($10).
Double check your car safety gear (window net, belts, seat back brace, roll bar padding, etc) as well as personal gear (Helmet, head sock, suit, gloves, socks, HANS - or equivalent) before you get to the track.

Here is who we have signed up:

American Iron
Casey Holdway
Craig McCormick
Bert Withers Jr.

Camaro/Mustang Challenge
Al Fernandez
Andrew Fisher
Dave Francis
Team Jordan
John Martin
Michael Mosty
Heather Sanchez
Josh Sooknanan



2020 Dues Tracker:

Al Fernandez: $115 (‘17/’18/’19/’20)
Andrew Fisher: $30 ('20)
Dave Francis: $30 ('20)
Casey Holdway: $30 ('20)
Team Jordan: $30 ('20)
John Martin: $30 ('20)
Craig McCormick: $30 ('20)
Michael Mosty: $30 ('20)
Heather Sanchez: $30 ('20)
Josh Sooknanan: $30 ('20)
Bert Withers: $60 (’18/'20)

If you want to prepay dues with PayPal, please do a "friends and family" bank transfer to marshallmosty at Hotmail dot com.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by marshall_mosty

Camaro/Mustang Challenge
Andrew Fisher
Dave Francis
Team Jordan
Michael Mosty
Heather Sanchez
Josh Sooknanan

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You forgot Al and John...


Also, don't forget the new Toyo Tires sticker rules:

"Beginning in 2020, these guidelines will be mandatory for all spec-tire classes, and will be strictly enforced. Drivers of cars with decals not in compliance with the new guidelines in 2020 will be denied claims for contingency prizes from Toyo Tires. Cheating will result in a permanent ban from the program."

Very specific on color and placement. We all love Toyo so we want to keep them happy. I know I'm fucking sick of pulling off old Toyo stickers that didn't meet the new rules...


Richard P.

So due and annual tech, $40 total?

How's the AICMC piggy bank looking these days?

- Josh

Quote:

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Originally Posted by marshall_mosty

2020 Dues Tracker:

Al Fernandez: $115 (‘17/’18/’19/’20)

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Is that what's called "leading by example???" :-)


Richard P.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sook

So due and annual tech, $40 total?

How's the AICMC piggy bank looking these days?

- Josh

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$10 annual tech (for the sticker... goes to NASA TX)
$30 dues (goes to the AI/CMC piggy bank)

Piggy bank is currently $712 in the hole, but there is approx. $325 in annual costs for 2020 (web hosting, Hallett trophies, and the plaques for the traveling trophies) baked into that which I haven't spent yet, but will. If everyone pays just their 2020 dues from the list above we will be down to $412 in the red. If folks pay their "past due" bills, we would be barely in the black for 2020 year end so then anyone else's dues after MSR-H would go to Hallett food and year end banquet prep.

There’s a couple of mustangs in DE this weekend. One is #508 and is a coworker and I’m pretty sure his car is close to a CMC setup new edge. Another one is #94 Kishnan and will be in a silver New Edge. We need to see if those guys will go for a ride with one of you that have a passenger seat.

I just signed up!

Is there a parking plan for the weekend? Anyone running T&T?

- Josh

I'm still paying off the $240 or so I was owed from the 2010 season...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sook

Is there a parking plan for the weekend? Anyone running T&T?

- Josh

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Josh
I think Al, Jerry, john, Casey and I will be there tomorrow night and planning to be pretty much where we were last year in the bottom 40. Be great for us all to pit together. I’m planning to run T&T although I haven’t decided on full or half day yet.

What’s our plan for watching/checking in on Daytona 24?

Well guys I'm sorry to say this but I'm out for this weekend. After losing the engine due to fuel wash last season starting at Cresson and ending at Hallett I had the lower end rebuilt and the heads cleaned up. I had sent the 21 lb. injectors to Houston to get them cleaned and they said two were stuck open but they were good to go after they cleaned them. When I started the engine for the first time it had two dead holes. I did a compression and everything was good. I changed the plugs and coil packs but still had two dead holes. Turned out to be two of the injectors were not firing. I installed two old 19 lb'ers in the place of the two dead 21's and it ran smooth. So I purchased a new set of 24 lb. injectors. 19 lb. injectors are at 85% duty cycle at 258 hp and so I did not want that and there are no 21 lb. injectors available new (just more used E-bay crap). I went to the dyno on Monday and made 202 hp at 10:1. I had a guy send me a tune that was set for 24 lb. injectors even though I know I can't run it just to see if that was the issue (there are all kinds of thoughts on this if you can or can't run 24's without adjusting the computer but Ford says the computer can compensate for up to a 30% difference on a stock tune after driving for a ways). After installing a tune for the 24 lb. injectors I went back to the dyno yesterday in the rain and 40 degree weather just to pull another 202 hp this time at 11:1 fuel ratio. Not only that but as soon as we got a little heat in the engine (still way below thermostat opening) the car would die right after starting. It died two times when he started it up to drive it on the rollers and two more times when he tried to start it to do the pull. I was told something else is wrong because even if I had a way to change the ratio from 11:1 to 12.5:1 I would not gain 50 hp (I was told maybe 15). So whatever took the engine out last year is still wrong and it's not the injectors as I had assumed. I have to find someone (hopefully in the Central Texas area) that can data-log the car and help me figure this out. I have too much money in the engine to mess it up again. I'm at my wits end! You guys have fun and maybe I will see you at Cresson. I'm just sick about it as I was looking forward to hanging out with you guys and racing this weekend.

JJ

Who knows what kind of tuning software is best to diagnose problems for the 4.6 Ford? I have talked to Jerry a lot about his issues and believe if a knowledgeable tuner or repair shop could look at all the parameters with something like HP Tuners then there is a chance that they find something way out of wack that would point to a sensor/wiring/computer etc. I'm not talking about needing any sort of tune but something the computer is seeing must be making it so rich and probably pulling all the timing out at the same time.
I know of True Street in Mckinney up here that does a lot of tuning and I think would be a place he should drop it off but there has to be someone closer who can plug into the OBD and see what the computer is seeing and doing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ShadowBolt

Well guys I'm sorry to say this but I'm out for this weekend. After losing the engine due to fuel wash last season starting at Cresson and ending at Hallett I had the lower end rebuilt and the heads cleaned up. I had sent the 21 lb. injectors to Houston to get them cleaned and they said two were stuck open but they were good to go after they cleaned them. When I started the engine for the first time it had two dead holes. I did a compression and everything was good. I changed the plugs and coil packs but still had two dead holes. Turned out to be two of the injectors were not firing. I installed two old 19 lb'ers in the place of the two dead 21's and it ran smooth. So I purchased a new set of 24 lb. injectors. 19 lb. injectors are at 85% duty cycle at 258 hp and so I did not want that and there are no 21 lb. injectors available new (just more used E-bay crap). I went to the dyno on Monday and made 202 hp at 10:1. I had a guy send me a tune that was set for 24 lb. injectors even though I know I can't run it just to see if that was the issue (there are all kinds of thoughts on this if you can or can't run 24's without adjusting the computer but Ford says the computer can compensate for up to a 30% difference on a stock tune after driving for a ways). After installing a tune for the 24 lb. injectors I went back to the dyno yesterday in the rain and 40 degree weather just to pull another 202 hp this time at 11:1 fuel ratio. Not only that but as soon as we got a little heat in the engine (still way below thermostat opening) the car would die right after starting. It died two times when he started it up to drive it on the rollers and two more times when he tried to start it to do the pull. I was told something else is wrong because even if I had a way to change the ratio from 11:1 to 12.5:1 I would not gain 50 hp (I was told maybe 15). So whatever took the engine out last year is still wrong and it's not the injectors as I had assumed. I have to find someone (hopefully in the Central Texas area) that can data-log the car and help me figure this out. I have too much money in the engine to mess it up again. I'm at my wits end! You guys have fun and maybe I will see you at Cresson. I'm just sick about it as I was looking forward to hanging out with you guys and racing this weekend.

JJ

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Jerry give Chris Car Doc in Humble a call. He’s pretty knowledgeable and might at least point you in the right direction or might be worth bringing your car to him.

Dang Jerry, so sorry to hear about the engine issues. That is the most frustrating thing about racing and can definitely change your mood on all of it. I hope you can find someone that can get it diagnosed and back to running great!!

Also, a couple of updates for the event. The welcome letter states the Annual race car inspection is $20 so please bring that to get your 2020 Tech sticker.

I have been emailing Aldrin who handles the contingencies for NASA since the banquet last month. He is working with Toyo to finalize the decal placement for Mustangs and will hopefully be emailing me today to final decision on location placement for the front and back of the car. The side placement is set above the front tires but the front / back placement is being reviewed to possibly be moved from the bumpers to the hood and hatch/decklid area.

Worst case, we might need to swap some stickers around on Friday but I'm sure NASA will have plenty of them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ShadowBolt

Well guys I'm sorry to say this but I'm out for this weekend. After losing the engine due to fuel wash last season starting at Cresson and ending at Hallett I had the lower end rebuilt and the heads cleaned up. I had sent the 21 lb. injectors to Houston to get them cleaned and they said two were stuck open but they were good to go after they cleaned them. When I started the engine for the first time it had two dead holes. I did a compression and everything was good. I changed the plugs and coil packs but still had two dead holes. Turned out to be two of the injectors were not firing. I installed two old 19 lb'ers in the place of the two dead 21's and it ran smooth. So I purchased a new set of 24 lb. injectors. 19 lb. injectors are at 85% duty cycle at 258 hp and so I did not want that and there are no 21 lb. injectors available new (just more used E-bay crap). I went to the dyno on Monday and made 202 hp at 10:1. I had a guy send me a tune that was set for 24 lb. injectors even though I know I can't run it just to see if that was the issue (there are all kinds of thoughts on this if you can or can't run 24's without adjusting the computer but Ford says the computer can compensate for up to a 30% difference on a stock tune after driving for a ways). After installing a tune for the 24 lb. injectors I went back to the dyno yesterday in the rain and 40 degree weather just to pull another 202 hp this time at 11:1 fuel ratio. Not only that but as soon as we got a little heat in the engine (still way below thermostat opening) the car would die right after starting. It died two times when he started it up to drive it on the rollers and two more times when he tried to start it to do the pull. I was told something else is wrong because even if I had a way to change the ratio from 11:1 to 12.5:1 I would not gain 50 hp (I was told maybe 15). So whatever took the engine out last year is still wrong and it's not the injectors as I had assumed. I have to find someone (hopefully in the Central Texas area) that can data-log the car and help me figure this out. I have too much money in the engine to mess it up again. I'm at my wits end! You guys have fun and maybe I will see you at Cresson. I'm just sick about it as I was looking forward to hanging out with you guys and racing this weekend.

JJ

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I agree that correcting the O2 ratios isn't going to pickup 50 hp. The O2s aren't very far off of what they should be, especially considering the car doesn't have any learned corrections from driving around in traffic with a non-stock set of injectors. That means that the computer is doing what it's supposed to do by adding the correct amount of fuel for the air it's getting. This sounds like an air restriction to me, I had a similar issue two years ago and couldn't figure it out for the life of me. After I gave up Craig Wiseman found a pound of rubber clogging my MAF and intake tube.

Looking at the fuel trims should give you an indication as well. If the fuel is pulled way back (negative), you're not getting as much air as you should be. If they're very positive, you've got a fueling issue (injectors, pressure, flow, etc). A little negative, maybe -2ish, is common at idle on modern engines.

- Josh

Could it be that the timing isn't advancing properly?

Aldrin confirmed the Toyo Placement to be on the hatch / decklid in the middle of the vertical rear section. Just cut the decal to be on either side of the trunk keylock.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by michaelmosty

aldrin confirmed the toyo placement to be on the hatch / decklid in the middle of the vertical rear section. Just cut the decal to be on either side of the trunk keylock.

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So it'll be

TOYO‧TIRES

So not where the website specified the decals to be?

So the guy that shot all the footage to this YouTube viral flick is coming to hang out with us and get some drone footage. Should be a great inclusion to our 2020 video
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IsalU8WIhf0

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trublu

So the guy that shot all the footage to this YouTube viral flick is coming to hang out with us and get some drone footage. Should be a great inclusion to our 2020 video
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IsalU8WIhf0

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We've had some issues with drones at the track in the past, MSR Houston has a note about it on the website. https://msrhouston.com/about/faqs/

I think it's a do it and ask forgiveness situation.

- Josh

Sorry to hear all his Jerry, that’s a damn shame.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sook

I agree that correcting the O2 ratios isn't going to pickup 50 hp. The O2s aren't very far off of what they should be, especially considering the car doesn't have any learned corrections from driving around in traffic with a non-stock set of injectors. That means that the computer is doing what it's supposed to do by adding the correct amount of fuel for the air it's getting. This sounds like an air restriction to me, I had a similar issue two years ago and couldn't figure it out for the life of me. After I gave up Craig Wiseman found a pound of rubber clogging my MAF and intake tube.

Looking at the fuel trims should give you an indication as well. If the fuel is pulled way back (negative), you're not getting as much air as you should be. If they're very positive, you've got a fueling issue (injectors, pressure, flow, etc). A little negative, maybe -2ish, is common at idle on modern engines.

- Josh

Could it be that the timing isn't advancing properly?

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Thanks Sook. I'm going to check the intake tube and MAF area on Sunday. I have an appointment to get the car on a dyno to data-log it tue. afternoon.

This all started last year at Cresson. If the timing is not right something is pulling it as it is not something I screw with. We can run an adjustable timing system but it's not worth it. The car should be getting whatever the computer calls for but I agree it's not just fuel it has to be timing also. While I was sitting there at idle I saw the long term fuel trim on the hand held showed 1. whatever the hell that means. You guys have fun.

JJ

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShadowBolt

Well guys I'm sorry to say this but I'm out for this weekend. After losing the engine due to fuel wash last season starting at Cresson and ending at Hallett I had the lower end rebuilt and the heads cleaned up. I had sent the 21 lb. injectors to Houston to get them cleaned and they said two were stuck open but they were good to go after they cleaned them. When I started the engine for the first time it had two dead holes. I did a compression and everything was good. I changed the plugs and coil packs but still had two dead holes. Turned out to be two of the injectors were not firing. I installed two old 19 lb'ers in the place of the two dead 21's and it ran smooth. So I purchased a new set of 24 lb. injectors. 19 lb. injectors are at 85% duty cycle at 258 hp and so I did not want that and there are no 21 lb. injectors available new (just more used E-bay crap). I went to the dyno on Monday and made 202 hp at 10:1. I had a guy send me a tune that was set for 24 lb. injectors even though I know I can't run it just to see if that was the issue (there are all kinds of thoughts on this if you can or can't run 24's without adjusting the computer but Ford says the computer can compensate for up to a 30% difference on a stock tune after driving for a ways). After installing a tune for the 24 lb. injectors I went back to the dyno yesterday in the rain and 40 degree weather just to pull another 202 hp this time at 11:1 fuel ratio. Not only that but as soon as we got a little heat in the engine (still way below thermostat opening) the car would die right after starting. It died two times when he started it up to drive it on the rollers and two more times when he tried to start it to do the pull. I was told something else is wrong because even if I had a way to change the ratio from 11:1 to 12.5:1 I would not gain 50 hp (I was told maybe 15). So whatever took the engine out last year is still wrong and it's not the injectors as I had assumed. I have to find someone (hopefully in the Central Texas area) that can data-log the car and help me figure this out. I have too much money in the engine to mess it up again. I'm at my wits end! You guys have fun and maybe I will see you at Cresson. I'm just sick about it as I was looking forward to hanging out with you guys and racing this weekend.

JJ

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MAF will skew fuel and timing together. I'd start there.

Could be worth going nuclear with a new harness and a fresh refurb ecu

These factory harnesses get brittle and cause issues all the time as the the computers

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pranav

Could be worth going nuclear with a new harness and a fresh refurb ecu

These factory harnesses get brittle and cause issues all the time as the the computers

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My harness is in good shape. Now it could have a bad area but I am not aware of it. The ecu….? Who knows.

JJ

Check this guy out right down the road from you. LS guy but has a Mustang in the shop on website but more stuff on FB. Should have HP Tuners and be able to check it on the trailer.

https://biddlemotorsports.com/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ShadowBolt

Thanks Sook. I'm going to check the intake tube and MAF area on Sunday. I have an appointment to get the car on a dyno to data-log it tue. afternoon.

This all started last year at Cresson. If the timing is not right something is pulling it as it is not something I screw with. We can run an adjustable timing system but it's not worth it. The car should be getting whatever the computer calls for but I agree it's not just fuel it has to be timing also. While I was sitting there at idle I saw the long term fuel trim on the hand held showed 1. whatever the hell that means. You guys have fun.

JJ

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Jerry,
Ask Dave or Sean about what happens when the coolant temp sensor wire gets damaged and starts
going in and out, telling the computer that the coolant temp is either 190 degrees or -37 degrees
a couple dozen times in the space of 15 seconds.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BryanL

Check this guy out right down the road from you. LS guy but has a Mustang in the shop on website but more stuff on FB. Should have HP Tuners and be able to check it on the trailer.

https://biddlemotorsports.com/

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Sorry I am just now seeing this Jerry. Gearheads in Arlington/Mansfield is who you want to take it to. Guy knows his shit and can diagnose electrical stuff. Travis Franklin is a tuning master with the 4.6 engine. Tuned mine and a Twin turbo car I built for a local...actually inherited and finished for a local that had a bad engine harness connector. Travis figured it out in a matter of minutes with his diagnostic equipment. Repinned the connector with stuff from the row of junk cars along the fence and away the car went to make 800rwhp on the stock ECU.

Tell him your issues and allow him to get mad...but he will figure it out. Pay him well. Most of these shops that know their shit don't like working on other people's projects to make them work right BUT, they will for the right price.

Okay this is way out there but last year the first event I made was Cresson. I had bought and installed a new CAI and on Friday before the event I got the car dynoed. It was not making big power (lower compression than my previous engines) but it was not all that bad. When others saw the CAI they said I could not run it because the filter sits in the fender well. I took a hacksaw and cut the pipe and pushed the filter on right before the MAF inside the engine bay. I can't remember for sure but it may be that after cutting the intake tube is when this all started. Thoughts?

JJ