No start condition

[mitchntx]

You have 12V at the starter? How about at the solenoid when the key is turned to start?

Nick is correct ... VATS would prevent it from starting, not engaging the starter.

If the relay is clicking, run a jumper wire from the relay output straight to the starter.

If it engages the starter, it's gotta be in the wiring loom.

One more thought - back to basics. The only things I changed on the car are as follows:
Battery moved to trunk
2ga wire from + battery to master disconnect
2ga wire from - battery to rear frame rail
2ga wire from disconnect to bulkhead to stock + battery cable going to starter
Stock - battery cable goes to stock ground point near junction box (grounds engine to body)
Alternator & junction box wires originally on stock + battery cable go to bulkhead
16ga wire interrupts + wire on ign. coil via disconnect
Removed door / cross body section of harness
Pulled HVAC, Airbag, wiper/wash, radio accy , courtesy, defog, windows, & radio fuses

That's all that changed from "known good"....anything suspicious here?

BTW - Glenn - there's a relay under the dash with a big purple wire going to it that DOES click when I turn the key to start. Not sure why it's not showing power downstream...no visible problems in the path.

OK, no power downstream (out of the relay). How about power into the relay (upstream)? Not power that makes the relay close, but power that the relay is switching open/closed.

Do you have my posts blocked or do you just like seeing your name in print?

[David Love AI27]

You have 12V at the starter? How about at the solenoid when the key is turned to start?

Nick is correct ... VATS would prevent it from starting, not engaging the starter.

If the relay is clicking, run a jumper wire from the relay output straight to the starter.

If it engages the starter, it's gotta be in the wiring loom.

One more thought - back to basics. The only things I changed on the car are as follows:
Battery moved to trunk
2ga wire from + battery to master disconnect
2ga wire from - battery to rear frame rail
2ga wire from disconnect to bulkhead to stock + battery cable going to starter
Stock - battery cable goes to stock ground point near junction box (grounds engine to body)
Alternator & junction box wires originally on stock + battery cable go to bulkhead
16ga wire interrupts + wire on ign. coil via disconnect
Removed door / cross body section of harness
Pulled HVAC, Airbag, wiper/wash, radio accy , courtesy, defog, windows, & radio fuses

That's all that changed from "known good"....anything suspicious here?

BTW - Glenn - there's a relay under the dash with a big purple wire going to it that DOES click when I turn the key to start. Not sure why it's not showing power downstream...no visible problems in the path.

OK, no power downstream (out of the relay). How about power into the relay (upstream)? Not power that makes the relay close, but power that the relay is switching open/closed.

Do you have my posts blocked or do you just like seeing your name in print?

He just wants to be like you.... bet he already has a cat...

[Casey_SS]

All right, this is kicking my ass. I can jumper across the starter terminals and it cranks like a mofo. I have no power going to a relay with a purple wire on it that clicked last night with key turned to start but doesn't click tonight. The DRL module (daytime running lights) clicks every 5 seconds with the key on...? I also have no power to / from the clutch switch in any key position. Time to test further back...

There's a red wire going to the ignition switch coming from the junction block fed by the battery. This wire has 11.8 volts at all times and is marked 12v constant on the wiring diagram. There's also a yellow wire marked starter which has no power in any key position. Not sure what to make of that but I know I have power to the switch.

Coming out of the switch, there's a purple wire that shows 11.7 volts with key on but drops to 0 in start position. It goes into a big connector and then into the main harness going to passenger side. It shows the same behavior at all points tested. Also tested every single wire coming out of the switch - only one shows power in the start position but it's brown and is also hot with the key just on. This purple wire is the only one that changes and it goes to 0. Bad switch?

Still a bunch of other stuff to do and I have 3 business trips this month....running way short on time. I think I'll just wire up a push button directly to the starter and bypass the switch altogether. Still doesn't address the PCM not responding, which has power at the appropriate pins (31 & 15 on the black connector for anyone who may need it later)....I'm more worried about this than the starter problem to be honest. All the grounds I can find test good though so not sure what else to check / do on this one. I'll get the tank back in tomorrow night, bypass the switch and hope it runs. Thoughts?

[GlennCMC70]

Sounds like the brown wire is the 12v supply to the purple thrru the relay. I seem to remember thaving those colors on the start relay.

Remember, when you start the car, some stuff turns off allowing full power to the starter.

If the relay doesnt click, you have a differnt problem.

[AllZWay]

Still sounds to me like the Vats is limiting power to the starter relay.

[Fbody383]

This purple wire is the only one that changes and it goes to 0. Bad switch?

Looking at the 95 and 96 ignition switch diagrams from shbox:

RED ~ +12 from batt
BRN ~ +12 active ACC to RUN, through BCM (probably includes retained accessory power)
PNK ~ +12 switched RUN and START, PCM/Gauges/Injector fuse power
ORG ~ +12 switched RUN (prob START), Ignition coil
YEL ~ +12 switched START, powers theft deterrant relay/power to clutch switch

Begin again at the ignition switch, the BRN may go flat in START.

The YEL should only be hot in start and is the supply to the clutch switch and relay.

I also wonder if you need to ground the coil of the theft deterrent relay (YEL/BLK).

Too bad you're not closer; it's probably something simple. Well, it's easy from here.

[Casey_SS]

Ok....after one hell of a fight, the gas tank is back in. Not surprisingly, it still doesn't start using the key. It does fire right up jumping the starter terminals though and seems to run fine, which is what I was hoping for. I'll wire up a simple switch directly to the starter, finish the rest of what I need to get done to make ECR, and come back to the switch troubleshooting as time permits.

Many thanks to everyone for all the advice and reference data...I really appreciate it.

[Fbody383]

It does fire right up jumping the starter terminals though and seems to run fine, which is what I was hoping for.

Awesome! If it will run more than a couple minutes, VATS is fine. It's crazy how big a pain it is to get the gas tank in.

I know I had a little carbon in my ignition switch housing, I wonder if you've just got a switch problem? I was going to rewire last year but it's hard to work on it when it works.