CMC and header wrap on exhaust manifolds - not legal.

[David Love AI27]

Hokey Smoke, Bullwinkle ... never thought I'd read some of the things posted in this thread, and other threads for that matter.

I'll leave this here ...

What burns my corn is not rules implementation or rules interpretation, it's the justice.

We've witnessed regional championships stripped from competitors over something like a 1/2" stitch weld and
other competitors beat and bang their way to regional championships leaving a piles of their own and their competitor's body parts in their wake and
then congratulated for their "accomplishments" at the end of the year.

Focus on certain things and the brushing-off of others makes no sense to me.
If following the CCR leads down this path, then the CCR is way out of whack.


ooops ... forgot to add ...

I personally don't equate "illegal" with "cheating".
I have a set of R888 I run in a race. Am I cheating? I'm certainly illegal ...

I agree...

[mitchntx]

I must have dropped a good hit of acid... I agree...

Wirtz was robbed for an infraction that should have been a fixit ticket... LiiR has been hounded over something that EVERYONE is aware of but no action...

Glenn can run over anyone he wants, but he is a director so its ok... Jason locks up the fronts to avoid Wade (check out the end of year video) and is DQed and put on probation... even though he tried to avoid...

LiiR has had TWO cars since 2004 with only minor body damage (two incidents),,, I will put that record up against ANY director in NASATX CMC...

I have never been so proud to be a CMC Texas racer as I was at the 2009 Nationals... passed ALL impounds without a hitch... ever since there have been non-stop accusations that the car is illegal but no one will put up and protest...

David,

Your "woe is me" rants are getting a little old. Especially your having Glenn and Glenn only in your cross-hairs.

Someone brought whatever your issue is it to his attention. As a director he is duty bound to investigate and take action if needed.
Jason's penalty wasn't handed down by Glenn and only Glenn. He may've explained the decision, as he should, but the decision wasn't his.
Your illegal car isn't anything that gains you or Jason an overwhlming advantage, or you'd win more races. But it's still illegal and if allowed, then the next guy takes it a step further and so on. Again, illegal and cheating aren't the same thing, although as much and as you vehemently defend, it does make me wonder.

You are shooting the messenger, a convenient target. Let it go.

And again, you chose to focus on a single set of circumstances (Jeff and Glenn), to illustrate only your hidden agenda ... well, maybe not so hidden.
And I am a little ticked that you would band wagon onto my post in a lame attempt to further your agenda.

I used general, yet identifiable examples to illustrate my point. I suggest you work really hard at formulating an original thought, not twisting mine in your evil plot to over throw the Love conspiracy. It wasn't too long ago this same basic group pooled money to keep you racing. So there is no conspiracy.

If you have a problem with your car, I suggest you do some research, do a little fact gathering, figure what's best for the series, formulate a plan to fix and make a case for change (either in the rule set or in your car) instead of just pointing a finger and proclaiming "he hate me".

[David Love AI27]

David,

Your "whoa is me" rants are getting a little old. Especially your having Glenn and Glenn only in your cross-hairs.

Someone brought whatever your issue is it to his attention. As a director he is duty bound to investigate and take action if needed.
Jason's penalty wasn't handed down by Glenn and only Glenn. He may've explained the decision, as he should, but the decision wasn't his.
Your illegal car isn't anything that gains you or Jason an overwhlming advantage, or you'd win more races. But it's still illegal and if allowed, then the next guy takes it a step further and so on. Again, illegal and cheating aren't the same thing, although as much and as you vehemently defend, it does make me wonder.

You are shooting the messenger, a convenient target. Let it go.

And again, you chose to focus on a single set of circumstances (Jeff and Glenn), to illustrate only your hidden agenda ... well, maybe not so hidden.
And I am a little ticked that you would band wagon onto my post in a lame attempt to further your agenda.

I used general, yet identifiable examples to illustrate my point. I suggest you work really hard at formulating an original thought, not twisting mine in your evil plot to over throw the Love conspiracy. It wasn't too long ago this same basic group pooled money to keep you racing. So there is no conspiracy.

If you have a problem with your car, I suggest you do some research, do a little fact gathering, figure what's best for the series, formulate a plan to fix and make a case for change (either in the rule set or in your car) instead of just pointing a finger and proclaiming "he hate me".

I didn't imply that Glenn handed down either of the penalties memtioned. I wasn't there for either of them. I know some facts and saw video that shows inconsistacies with the penalty handed to Jason and Wirtz as compared to others.

I read the rules and researched my car. It is legal as far as I know.

[mitchntx]

I didn't imply that Glenn handed down either of the penalties memtioned. I wasn't there for either of them. I know some facts and saw video that shows inconsistacies with the penalty handed to Jason and Wirtz as compared to others.

I read the rules and researched my car. It is legal as far as I know.

What was you implication, then? Glenn was certainly the target of your angst.
That is evidenced in the post you deleted here and the 4 or 5 others you have yet to delete.
If you feel that strongly about it, why delete your opinion?
You certainly hurt the validity of a post if you decide to delete it.
The appearance is that you didn't mean it.

If you have facts not in evidence, then the time to appeal was a year and a half ago, not today and yesterday and last week and last month and over Christmas break and during Thanksgiving, while trick or treating, on Labor day weekend, during 4th of July fireworks, celebrating Memorial day, hunting easter eggs, while fasting during lent, on Presidents day, while celebrating 2011 on New Year's eve. Your agenda is clear ... Glenn gone or you'll generate as much crap as you can until it happens.

As you tried to imply by your quoting and piggy-backing onto my post, the problem is not Glenn or Al or Adrian ... it's the CCR, IMHO.

I'll try again ...The tool is screwed up when a misplaced stitch weld, a length of roll bar padding, a heat insulating cloth can strip a competitor of a Regional Championship while blowing a yellow flag, knocking someone's fender off, punting a competitor, or blocking has no significant impact.

A DQ is a non-droppable zero ... a reposition is droppable. Where's the justice in that?

Is that Glenn? No ... it's ANYONE who is guilty of an on-track infraction and deemed so by an IRB or your corner worker buddies or during a rountine or non-routine inspection.

In Wirtz's case, I don't know the particulars and don't care to. I do know that when LiiR found out, they worked their asses off to do what it took to over take, Jeff. So don't sit behind your monitor and act like your pissed because Jeff was screwed over. LiiR accepted the trophy and cashed the big check.

[David Love AI27]

As you tried to imply by your quoting and piggy-backing onto my post, the problem is not Glenn or Al or Adrian ... it's the CCR, IMHO.

I'll try again ...The tool is screwed up when a misplaced stitch weld, a length of roll bar padding, a heat insulating cloth can strip a competitor of a Regional Championship while blowing a yellow flag, knocking someone's fender off, punting a competitor, or blocking has no significant impact.

A DQ is a non-droppable zero ... a reposition is droppable. Where's the justice in that?

Is that Glenn? No ... it's ANYONE who is guilty of an on-track infraction and deemed so by an IRB or your corner worker buddies or during a rountine or non-routine inspection.

MSR HOUSTON 2011... Jason "punted" Wade... it was an accident... you can see in the video that he locked up the fronts trying to avoid. First major contact in his career. He didn't do it on purpose and felt horrible when it happened. Was DQed (non-droppable), suspended for a race (no chance to earn points) and put on probation. I wasn't there to see what happened or help him. He is respectful of his elders and didn't want to protest the decision. Did it have a significant impact on his Championship? Why him? I guess in you humble opinion the penalty was fair and justified... IMHO it was crap... Jason is a good person who never wants to hurt anyone... He called me that night and asked me to come and drive because he was scared he might screw up and get kicked out of the series...

[MHISSTC]

DANG!

Is everybody familiar with "The Butterfly Effect"? ...not the movie necessarily, but more in general as it relates to chaos theory and meteorology? I think I just witnessed it here. Apparently, I can ask questions about headers on the National CMC forum and it leads to a shit-storm in Texas, while I can ask similar questions about breather catch tanks and it doesn't even ripple the pond.

I wanted to come here and apologize to anyone who received any grief from the trickle-down.

I wish all regions with CMC racers were as well represented on the National CMC forum as Texas and a couple other regions.

Fun times racing, drinking beer, and hanging out at the track can't come soon enough.

[mitchntx]

MSR HOUSTON 2011... Jason "punted" Wade... it was an accident... you can see in the video that he locked up the fronts trying to avoid. First major contact in his career. He didn't do it on purpose and felt horrible when it happened. Was DQed (non-droppable), suspended for a race (no chance to earn points) and put on probation. I wasn't there to see what happened or help him. He is respectful of his elders and didn't want to protest the decision. Did it have a significant impact on his Championship? Why him? I guess in you humble opinion the penalty was fair and justified... IMHO it was crap... Jason is a good person who never wants to hurt anyone... He called me that night and asked me to come and drive because he was scared he might screw up and get kicked out of the series...

I wasn't there either. I do know that Jason was the ONLY CMC car and out-of-class contact, as decided by the race director, would be dealt with severely.
That's been the mantra ever since Jeff lost a door to the wild woman in the stock car.
Jason was coached to move to CMC2 and refused.
And if I recall, Wade's car was wrinkled beyond repair.

But, OK it was crap. Jason was screwed over. Jason's a good person. Jason's respectful. And, Jason, I believe that, BTW ...

WTF does that have to do with ...

at least in TT I don't have to worry about some a$$ hat like you totaling my car

I am trying REALY hard to join you in AI with the 3 car.... I don't want to be on track at the same time as Glenn but Jason doen't have a problem with it.. Might just run Jason in AI on Sat and I'll run TT on Sunday

Again, your anger is pointed at the messenger, not the real problem.

Wow ... this all sounds like I'm defending Glenn. Further from the truth.
I couldn't care less what Glenn says or does.

But if you, David and you, Mr. Kellam would direct your passion into getting the problems fixed, traction might be made.
As long as decisions are being made without regard to how it effects existing racers, this kind of thing will continue.
What is CMC going to do when the puppet-masters decide the new Camaro and Challenger will be made CMC legal?
What's that going to do to the Fox and 3G? SN95? 4G?

And don't say they wouldn't do that ... they've already done it twice ... once with the 4G and again with the LSx cars and the new Mustangs.
It's why we're where we're at today.

If you think replacing Glenn is the answer, then you will be sorely disappointed.
The problems existed when Todd, Adam, and Al were regional directors.
A replacement will change nothing.

[mitchntx]

DANG!

Is everybody familiar with "The Butterfly Effect"? ...not the movie necessarily, but more in general as it relates to chaos theory and meteorology? I think I just witnessed it here. Apparently, I can ask questions about headers on the National CMC forum and it leads to a shit-storm in Texas, while I can ask similar questions about breather catch tanks and it doesn't even ripple the pond.

I wanted to come here and apologize to anyone who received any grief from the trickle-down.

I wish all regions with CMC racers were as well represented on the National CMC forum as Texas and a couple other regions.

Fun times racing, drinking beer, and hanging out at the track can't come soon enough.

Oh yeah ... at the track we're all best of friends.

Once away from the track, accusations, back-stabbing, finger-pointing, rumor-mongoring is the norm.

[David Love AI27]

I do know that Jason was the ONLY CMC car and out-of-class contact, as decided by the race director, would be dealt with severely.
That's been the mantra ever since Jeff lost a door to the wild woman in the stock car.
Jason was coached to move to CMC2 and refused.
And if I recall, Wade's car was wrinkled beyond repair.

Our plan was to bring home the final CMC Championship in Texas. We have been running out of class in the 27 car from the very begining and ALWAYS let others by if they were quicker. Jason didn't need any coaching, we already had a plan. And yes, that was the final straw for the old #17... we offered up parts but Wade was already building a new one.

[GlennCMC70]

DANG!

Is everybody familiar with "The Butterfly Effect"? ...not the movie necessarily, but more in general as it relates to chaos theory and meteorology? I think I just witnessed it here. Apparently, I can ask questions about headers on the National CMC forum and it leads to a shit-storm in Texas, while I can ask similar questions about breather catch tanks and it doesn't even ripple the pond.

I wanted to come here and apologize to anyone who received any grief from the trickle-down.

I wish all regions with CMC racers were as well represented on the National CMC forum as Texas and a couple other regions.

Fun times racing, drinking beer, and hanging out at the track can't come soon enough.

A similare thing happened when I posted a thread just like this one here stating Maximum Motorsports upper rear shock mounts were not CMC legal - total cluster. Since I didn't do the same w/ the catch can (since the rules will be clarified to allow it), you got a different result.