New Spec Iron Rules Posted

[BryanL]

To finish first....first you have to show up. Since you can't get but two kitchen passes a year how exactly is this going to work?

JJ

Yeah, Yeah, when I don't have 3 kids under my roof and I"m old and slow like you I'll find a young stud to pick on too. I pulled out a one night kitchen pass so watch ou-you know the humidity down there has been known to make RV tires go flat overnight.

[BlueFirePony]

Spec Iron - not Spec S197, Spec Mustang but Spec Iron for S197s 2005-2010 . I thought NASA had figured this part out ala Spec Miata, Spec 944 etc.
C'mon at least something like Spec Iron by Ford Racing ...

The payouts are great for short fields but won't do much if anything to grow the class - the sunk cost is too high especially if the competitors are locked into FR parts.

The spec parts carry a hefty Ford Racing premium and are largely street upgrades that don't compare to what the aftermarket can provide at better price point. About the only FR piece I think stands up is the diff cover. The wheels are a joke. The performance packs barely improve throttle response and hardly move the needle on the 2008+ with respect to air flow and just stupid compared to the aftermarket options at the same cost. The brake package is run of the mill Brembos with one piece heavy ass rotors. The suspension parts are largely street upgrades. So in the end, you are spending more money to under-perform.

If the goal, as stated is to create a lower barrier to entry for AI, it's missed the boat...the delta between a FR spec'd S197 and cherry picking the aftermarket S197 is not that great. And we already know the S197 is the high water mark in CMC.

The part I can't get past is the 11.75:1 - that will completely emasculate the car....no Growl...just a whirr. Anyone remember what my car sounded like going down the front straight at ECR or TWS? The first time Kyri drove by and I was on the hill at ECR I thought he lost power.

If you want to race an S197, AI is the place. Jump into an already established class and help grow it.

[marshall_mosty]

Brian,
You are missing the point. A "Spec Iron" car can easily be built for $20-25K, whereas a full fledged AI car is at least $45-$50K (or $80K if you go to FR). It's basically CMC with a few extra upgrades and ABS. It gives the S197 cars a place to run, as their balls have basically been cut off in CMC because the platform is THAT good. There is a bunch of excitement about this and the payouts will pay for the wear items on the car, so you just cover entry fees and basically run for free.

At the moment, it is just the '05-'10 3V motors, but the idea is to also figure out how to get the '11-'13 V6's into the mix to match the acceleration curve of the mostly stock 3V cars.

Yes, it isn't AI, but we haven't even gotten close to what a REAL S197 AI car looks like. Mark Smith's 302S still has a lead acid battery (a big one) under the hood ... Remember, FR is after Grand-AM first from their Boss lineup (S and R). NASA is just finding their mojo with it. It's good that Ford wants to get behind it. I'm sure if Dodge and GM want to revive their factory racing programs, NASA would try and find a way to get them into "Spec Iron", hence why we didn't call it "Spec S197". There is a rhyme and a reason, the other kids just haven't made it to the new sandbox.

If it doesn't appeal to you, stay in AI... I've talked to a few folks that are really excited about the class regionally in TX, so we may just have a few cars to mix it up with in the coming years (if not sooner). Hell, if I didn't have as much time/effort into Frankenstang, I'd dump it and build one...

Just my .02

[Terlingua 121]

I think it will be a great class. There are a lot of people out there with these parts already on thier cars. Install a cage and some safety features and you are ready to go. You can pick these cars up for really good money right now and be racing in a short time. This will help a lot of High Speed Touring types make that jump. Now if just a few more liked eunning in AIX - I wouldn't be in the middle of this nightmare AI build! Adapt or Die!!!

[BlueFirePony]

Brian,
You are missing the point. A "Spec Iron" car can easily be built for $20-25K, whereas a full fledged AI car is at least $45-$50K (or $80K if you go to FR).

Nope don't think I am missing the point at all...I referenced the point and nailed it with a double tap. Low barrier to entry...using the S197 there is no such thing.

You know I have great respect for you Marshall, but that is a serious exaggeration in price differential. If we use your starting point (and since I've been researching a second AI car in addition to improving the #404 I can tell you it's high) the gap is more like $20-30k with all the FR parts vs $25-$35k with non-FR after-market. The FR parts are still carrying a premium.

From the starting point of a stock-but-race-worthy 4.6L V8 with 3650 like my car you are a set of headers, mild cam upgrade, about $3-5k in suspension upgrades and #200 in weight to wipe out my HP/TQ disadvantage and significantly improve the handling. Change out to 3.73s and you don't need a 6 speed on any track in Texas and pretty much none nationally.

I can get a set of Wilwoods for about $300 more than the FR SVT brake package that includes 2 piece rotors or spend an additional $2k on a set of APR 6 pistons and outbrake everyone in the country (just not gonna use Pagid mfg'd pads no more).

At most that is $5-6k more (mostly in suspension) than the FR spec and you are getting a wildly more powerful ride than a Spec Emasculated S197.

With those mods my car (with a decent driver) would be fighting like a dog in AI with you and all the front runners in Texas and be a top 5-6 contender nationally day 1. With me driving I'd get a few wins every year and run the ass off 2nd place all year long.

The 302S has more engine than it can use in AI, and does not have any advantage handling over the upgrades I include in that $5k. So from a price/value perspective...spend $30k, load up on FR parts and get a pony that purrs or spend $35k and get a Mustang with Growl.

[ShadowBolt]

Nope don't think I am missing the point at all...I referenced the point and nailed it with a double tap. Low barrier to entry...using the S197 there is no such thing.

You know I have great respect for you Marshall, but that is a serious exaggeration in price differential. If we use your starting point (and since I've been researching a second AI car in addition to improving the #404 I can tell you it's high) the gap is more like $20-30k with all the FR parts vs $25-$35k with non-FR after-market. The FR parts are still carrying a premium.

From the starting point of a stock-but-race-worthy 4.6L V8 with 3650 like my car you are a set of headers, mild cam upgrade, about $3-5k in suspension upgrades and #200 in weight to wipe out my HP/TQ disadvantage and significantly improve the handling. Change out to 3.73s and you don't need a 6 speed on any track in Texas and pretty much none nationally.

I can get a set of Wilwoods for about $300 more than the FR SVT brake package that includes 2 piece rotors or spend an additional $2k on a set of APR 6 pistons and outbrake everyone in the country (just not gonna use Pagid mfg'd pads no more).

At most that is $5-6k more (mostly in suspension) than the FR spec and you are getting a wildly more powerful ride than a Spec Emasculated S197.

With those mods my car (with a decent driver) would be fighting like a dog in AI with you and all the front runners in Texas and be a top 5-6 contender nationally day 1. With me driving I'd get a few wins every year and run the ass off 2nd place all year long.

The 302S has more engine than it can use in AI, and does not have any advantage handling over the upgrades I include in that $5k. So from a price/value perspective...spend $30k, load up on FR parts and get a pony that purrs or spend $35k and get a Mustang with Growl.

Color me coonfused. My head hurts after reading this. Glad I will be in CMC a few more years.

JJ

[RichardP]

The point of the new Spec Iron class is "racing", not really going fast. Everything but springs, shocks, and alignment is spelled out. It will cost some money but you can very quickly build a car for this class to the very limit of the rules and not worry that someone will spend three times as much as you to have a car that is 1 second faster. I won’t argue that they could have chosen cheaper parts for the build but then it wouldn’t have the contingency support from Ford. The other glorious part about a spec class is there are no parity discussions. I’m pretty tired of that in both AI and CMC.

I have an AI regional championship and the car that Chris and I won with is still sitting in my garage. It was on the track last weekend and it will be on the track next weekend. I want to go racing but I have absolutely no desire to get it ready to race it in AI again. The class is open ended. There is no limit to how much you could spend on an AI car. It is not possible to "finish" an AI car to the limit of the rules. There will always be projects to do and things to try to find a bit more speed. If you gave me this year’s national championship winning AI Mustang and a bucket of money I would modify the crap out of that car within the legal limits of the rules. To a creative engineer with available resources, it’s just a starting place for modifications. I think it’s naive to believe that over the next several years people won’t start making these cars even faster. The key is, there aren’t really any bolt on parts opportunities that will jump people to the next level. You are going to have to start cutting up the car, moving pickup points around, and going to different types of suspension layouts to do it. The AI rules allow all that. The cost potentials in AI absolutely dwarf any concerns about spending the extra cash on inflated Ford Motorsports parts in SI.

To most people, the AI and SI classes will look basically identical on track and will probably even have roughly similar lap times. Conceptually, though, the two classes are 180 degrees apart. Hopefully there are people who want to play in both arenas. I’ve played the AI game and did some really cool things to my car. It did drive me and everyone around me completely nuts while I was doing it, though. At this point, I’d much rather be in a spec class. As an engineer it’s a snoozer but as a racer I believe it would be much better.

Richard P.

[Suck fumes]

So I have a question already haha.... It says you can run adj spring perches, now since AST's come with threaded collars on all four corners does that mean you can run a full coilover setup or do you still have to put the rear springs in the stock location? Also can you actually adjust the perches for corner weights or are they just for looks like in CMC?

[jdlingle]

The point of the new Spec Iron class is "racing", not really going fast. Everything but springs, shocks, and alignment is spelled out. It will cost some money but you can very quickly build a car for this class to the very limit of the rules and not worry that someone will spend three times as much as you to have a car that is 1 second faster. I won’t argue that they could have chosen cheaper parts for the build but then it wouldn’t have the contingency support from Ford. The other glorious part about a spec class is there are no parity discussions. I’m pretty tired of that in both AI and CMC.

I have an AI regional championship and the car that Chris and I won with is still sitting in my garage. It was on the track last weekend and it will be on the track next weekend. I want to go racing but I have absolutely no desire to get it ready to race it in AI again. The class is open ended. There is no limit to how much you could spend on an AI car. It is not possible to "finish" an AI car to the limit of the rules. There will always be projects to do and things to try to find a bit more speed. If you gave me this year’s national championship winning AI Mustang and a bucket of money I would modify the crap out of that car within the legal limits of the rules. To a creative engineer with available resources, it’s just a starting place for modifications. I think it’s naive to believe that over the next several years people won’t start making these cars even faster. The key is, there aren’t really any bolt on parts opportunities that will jump people to the next level. You are going to have to start cutting up the car, moving pickup points around, and going to different types of suspension layouts to do it. The AI rules allow all that. The cost potentials in AI absolutely dwarf any concerns about spending the extra cash on inflated Ford Motorsports parts in SI.

To most people, the AI and SI classes will look basically identical on track and will probably even have roughly similar lap times. Conceptually, though, the two classes are 180 degrees apart. Hopefully there are people who want to play in both arenas. I’ve played the AI game and did some really cool things to my car. It did drive me and everyone around me completely nuts while I was doing it, though. At this point, I’d much rather be in a spec class. As an engineer it’s a snoozer but as a racer I believe it would be much better.

Richard P.

I think you nailed it Richard. I am intriqued to see where this class goes.

[RichardP]

So I have a question already haha.... It says you can run adj spring perches, now since AST's come with threaded collars on all four corners does that mean you can run a full coilover setup or do you still have to put the rear springs in the stock location? Also can you actually adjust the perches for corner weights or are they just for looks like in CMC?

Interesting questions. The rules are not clear on the first question about spring location. That should be clarified officially.

The answer to the second question is likely only ambiguious because there are many people coming from a class that allows adjusters that you aren't allowed to adjust. Of course they can be adjusted. Why else would they allow them? This might also be a thing to clarify just because of the background of the people coming into the class...


Richard P.