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Thread: 4th gen setup questions. . . don't be stingy!

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby Supercharged111's Avatar
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    I feel like I should give some feedback on some recent changes I made. So initially the car had 1200/325 springs and a 30F/small rear bar. I've left the bars as is, hoping to run a big spring/small bar combo because in my mind it just sounds better. I ran the car like this at Hallett. A month later, I tried some 950# fronts. Though I could feel what I perceived as an improvement through the wheel (tolerated more input), the car really wasn't working that well. I was still under max front width too. When I slapped wider spacers on, the car took off. At first, I thought this was because of the lowered wheel rate. Well I ran some calculations, and it was off by about 8#, so definitely not the cause. Next thought was scrub radius, but that was also squashed. Lastly, I realized that a wider car transfers less weight. So we're back to springs, but now for the right reason. Lighter springs transfer less weight. At this point, I'm still sitting on a 950/325 combo that is still prone to understeer even with the alignment tweaks I'd made (which go the car to legal max width). I ordered some 275# rear springs as I suspected I was just too far outside of what everyone else was running to make the car function. I (and others who guided me) was right. The car still had a mid corner understeer, but now I could get on the throttle and the car would rotate. Not drift, but just rotate and hook and go. It was a very progressive feeling, unlike how it's ever acted before. That was practice, after that I snagged some 900# fronts off of Bryan, threw them on, and started to feel the car out again. Relative to the field, I was the fastest I've ever been. Hell, relative to myself I was the fastest I've ever been. I beat my Z06 lap times by 5 full seconds! I still plan to grab some 250# springs to bounce back and forth with, but I feel I can concentrate a little less on the car now and a little more on me.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby
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    Reading through this thread and others, I feel like I may be doing a number of things wrong:

    Tire pressures: running mid-high 20s starting. This too low?

    Spring rates: Went up to 750F/250R from 600F/200R last summer, no spacers in the back. Car feels stable and doesnt seem to push, but I think it's harder to drive offline now. Running 32F/19R bars.

    Front camber: I know it's too high, can't get an accurate reading but suspect it is above 2.6*

    My pyrometer readings are showing a 20-25*F delta between the inside (hotter) and outside (cooler) of the front tires, so I will take the car to an alignment shop and back off the camber accurately.

    What should I aim for front camber/caster/toe when it's on the rack? -2.2 camber, max caster, 0 toe?

    What should my starting pressures be?

    Hoping to get to TWS this Friday to try out other variables (rear spring rate, rear spacers, tire pressures).
    Last edited by Pranav; 05-18-2015 at 11:48 AM.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pranav View Post
    Reading through this thread and others, I feel like I may be doing a number of things wrong:

    Tire pressures: running mid-high 20s starting. This too low?

    Spring rates: Went up to 750F/250R from 600F/200R last summer, no spacers in the back. Car feels stable and doesnt seem to push, but I think it's harder to drive offline now. Running 32F/19R bars.

    Front camber: I know it's too high, can't get an accurate reading but suspect it is above 2.6*

    My pyrometer readings are showing a 20-25*F delta between the inside (hotter) and outside (cooler) of the front tires, so I will take the car to an alignment shop and back off the camber accurately.

    What should I aim for front camber/caster/toe when it's on the rack? -2.2 camber, max caster, 0 toe?

    What should my starting pressures be?

    Hoping to get to TWS this Friday to try out other variables (rear spring rate, rear spacers, tire pressures).
    My starting pressures are 27F 23R fyi. I will change this depending on outside temps, those are for ~70f.
    I like to see 5-10 deg delta between inside-middle-outside which could be up to 20deg total between inside and out. Do you have a tire temp logbook? If so, post some recent entries from it and I will give you my two cents.
    Alignment specs sound pretty good, based on the temp delta you posted I think 2.2 to 2.5 (will depend on the track) for camber. I like to run a little toe out in the front if needed (helps turn in).
    Tyler Gardner
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  4. #4
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby Fbody383's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pranav View Post
    Tire pressures: running mid-high 20s starting. This too low?

    Spring rates: Went up to 750F/250R Running 32F/19R bars.

    Front camber: I know it's too high, can't get an accurate reading but suspect it is above 2.6*

    What should I aim for front camber/caster/toe when it's on the rack? -2.2 camber, max caster, 0 toe?

    What should my starting pressures be?
    Since as long as I can remember I ran 700/225 (subject to edit) springs.

    Made spring change for TWS DOWN to 600/175 (car was too low without the factory spring spacers in the rear), I think 32/21 bars on the car, first time out on RRs and 29 front / 28 rear, about 2.ish camber / 4ish caster. If I measured it I would go for 1/8"-ish toe in since I still have the factory control arm bushings.

    Koni singles, rear full FIRM, fronts several sweeps from firm but I think I'm going go up for Hallett test day.

    Tyler took temps once for me and shook his head since they seemed to have the right relative spread.

    I thought the car was a little more raceable, i.e. R4 I was able to go inside the 34 between 1 and 2, but maybe reminded me of the Toyota truck in the sense that you just had to get it all loaded up, but it was entirely predictable. (I know, I shouldn't have changed tires and springs at the same time...)
    #39 CMC Camaro
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  5. #5
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby Supercharged111's Avatar
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    On my gauge, my starting pressures are generally 27+/- psi. I have the small rear bar and 275s out back, I had trouble with it at PPIR being loose despite it working well at Pueblo last year. Brian let me run his last year RRs and they were a full second faster there than my last year RA1s. I think I want some 250s and then use a bigger bar out back for the pushy tracks. I also need to get a template for recording tire temps, what do you guys use?

  6. #6
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby
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    Threw it on the alignment rack, driver's side had 2.3*, passenger 3.3* camber

    Man was I off.

    In the end I'm now at 2.2* camber, 4.9* caster, 0* toe.

    Let's see how it plays out tomorrow!

  7. #7
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby Supercharged111's Avatar
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    You done your corners yet? I'm on that now like a fat chic at a buffet. Too bad the rear spacers are in the trailer and I'm a few too many beers in to go grab them. I figured an adjustment at 1 wheel would show at the opposite corner. Not so much. My averages are good, but l/r disparity blows. Going to tweak for greater consistency tomorrow. Mr. Francis are you reading? I've got a borderline deghettofied, halfway sorted out car this time around! The driver? Don't put much stock in him.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby Fbody383's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supercharged111 View Post
    Mr. Francis are you reading? I've got a borderline deghettofied, halfway sorted out car this time around! The driver? Don't put much stock in him.
    I always figured I was on borrowed time... Good think I race better than I qualify. What kind of beer is it you said you like?
    #39 CMC Camaro
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    CMC-NT01 FTW!

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