4th gen setup questions. . . don't be stingy!

[Fbody383]

Dave what bars do you run? Didn't see that in your first reply.

To be blunt, I'm not sure anymore. I will try and get a caliper on them and let you know. I do know they are one deal slower than Curtis and Ryan at Hallett.

[Supercharged111]

Tire temps continue to haunt me. I even read an article recently that said what you said, it's great feedback that tells you exactly what's going on. I couldn't tell you my tire temps, I don't yet have a probe.

Is the car faster? Hard to say. With the illegal spacers, yes, but when I max out track width legally it may get pushy again. I got my ass handed to me at HPR, so relative to the field no I wasn't faster than before but there were a lot of variables. On my most recent track day, I ran as fast in 95 degree heat as I did in May when it was 75, but the track wasn't being heated by cars last weekend (about 8 turned out total) so how hot was the track really? I had plenty of open laps in May once the field spread out too. I know the car makes less juice in the heat, but on my last run I was able to hit the rev limit every single lap between T3 and T4. I've never done that before, ever. I was also able to hit the limiter in 4th just before the brake marker every single time and I couldn't do that before either. The car gives indications that it's faster, but it isn't putting up the lap times and I was driving the wheels off of it compared to May. I was more consistent and picked up a lot of speed in parts of the track I felt I was lacking in back in May.

#4: I got what I wanted on that spacer change, but it makes me wonder if there isn't more to be had?

On another note, I think I may have artificially stiffened the front when I raised it and the roll center.

[AI#97]

Tire temps continue to haunt me. I even read an article recently that said what you said, it's great feedback that tells you exactly what's going on. I couldn't tell you my tire temps, I don't yet have a probe.

Is the car faster? Hard to say. With the illegal spacers, yes, but when I max out track width legally it may get pushy again. I got my ass handed to me at HPR, so relative to the field no I wasn't faster than before but there were a lot of variables. On my most recent track day, I ran as fast in 95 degree heat as I did in May when it was 75, but the track wasn't being heated by cars last weekend (about 8 turned out total) so how hot was the track really? I had plenty of open laps in May once the field spread out too. I know the car makes less juice in the heat, but on my last run I was able to hit the rev limit every single lap between T3 and T4. I've never done that before, ever. I was also able to hit the limiter in 4th just before the brake marker every single time and I couldn't do that before either. The car gives indications that it's faster, but it isn't putting up the lap times and I was driving the wheels off of it compared to May. I was more consistent and picked up a lot of speed in parts of the track I felt I was lacking in back in May.

#4: I got what I wanted on that spacer change, but it makes me wonder if there isn't more to be had?

On another note, I think I may have artificially stiffened the front when I raised it and the roll center.

Is the car inconsistent or is the driver? Track surface could have been different too?

I also think you are overthinking all of this. Set the rates to something you like. Then buy the right shocks that can help you make finite adjustments at the track to change the setup to the conditions. Beyond that. Get tons of seat time. With that seat time, you will get a better feel for the car and can make small changes as YOU get faster.

Good luck!

[Suck fumes]

Yah you have to get a lot of practice in to understand what you feel under the car. No point in changing a bunch of stuff until you know what you are changing.

[Supercharged111]

What I really know is that, before the spacers, I had an undeniable mid-corner push that was driving me nuts and holding me up. It wasn't a small nuisance, and I'd like to keep it away without relying on illegal spacers. The front simply wouldn't dig enough to make the car work. My goal was to add grip up front and not simply make the rear loose to shift the balance. Most of my laps are usually within a second of each other with a few rogue slow laps here and there. I'm not as consistent as Bryan, but when the car turns to a dump truck 3 laps in it can be tough to be that consistent. I think that's why I was so much more consistent with the spacers because the car finally responded to my inputs. Was it ideal? I doubt it, but it was good enough that seat time would again be beneficial. There for a while, I'd really felt I was hitting a wall and it was frustrating. Up through Hallett, I kept seeing incremental improvements in my driving but at HPR, I didn't see any. It was awful. I think it was just a bad weekend for me, but seeing how there's another race there in October I'd really like to do better then and see that improvement again.

[Suck fumes]

Your situation is a combination of tire pressures set incorrectly and having spacers softens the car which again tells you softer is better assuming the camber is set correctly. When the tires heat up to fast from sliding (which is from being to stiff, or from setting cold pressures to low) then the tires balloon up really fast after you run a few laps and you overcook the grip level.

[Supercharged111]

So would I see a smaller swing in tire pressures by going softer or a slower swing in tire pressures, ending up the same at the end?

[Suck fumes]

Well you definitely do NOT want to start your tires to low. Anything in the 20psi range is WAY to low and they will heat up faster cause they are flexing to much. Without seeing your car and measuring everything it's hard to tell you what needs to be changed. But I do know for a fact that the 4-5 lap dump truck handling comes from either overdriving or over flexing your tires early on. Start with a higher cold pressure then work with camber and toe. All while being smooth with the gas haha. Running a softer setup will make your car more consistent cause you won't be putting as much stress on the tire itself. The suspension will take more of the abuse instead.

[Supercharged111]

Yeah, I'm always a sledgehammer the first couple sessions. Takes a bit to quell the excitement and get back to work on the little things. I'm starting with 27 cold on the front outer tire which gets me about 36 hot, no nitrogen yet. The 4-5 lap dumptruck effect is what caused me to go down cold in the first place. I didn't think I'd hit the wall this quickly, I really do need to get a handle on tire temps to smartly move forward here. Every time you harp on softer suspension, it reminds me of when I fixed the broken swaybar on the wife's car. Without it, it rolled like crazy. Once I fitted a 1 piece swaybar, roll was decreased but the car wouldn't tolerate much steering input before it understeered like crazy. Kind of like when I swapped the 950s in at the track, first yank of the steering wheel and I could tell it tolerated more input before breaking loose.

[Suck fumes]

Having the car roll is what you want. Granted there is a fine line but you want the weight to roll onto the wheels cause the weight is what gives you grip. Without roll you have little weight pushing down on the tire hence the eventual push.