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Thread: Tire Issues

  1. #61
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby ShadowBolt's Avatar
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    I would be happy with the newer RA1 but would really like to see us be able to get the old RA1 since the RR is Toyo's main tire now.

    JJ

  2. #62
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby Fbody383's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Fernandez
    I would suggest lining up a discussion session Friday night at TWS with Will and Dave. They're our best direct link to NASA HQ.
    Are you raising your hand to see if they have time and would be happy to join in? I don't think there are pitchforks and torches involved... c'mon this is Texas. (It would be ARs and high power LED flashlights)

    Quote Originally Posted by Al Fernandez View Post
    I dont consider TT or DE a race environment.
    What about enduro laps? I believe there's pretty good CMC and AI data on the NT01 from the last couple of enduros.
    #39 CMC Camaro
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  3. #63
    The issue isnt durability (again correct me if I'm wrong), rather a loss of peak grip after a few heat cycles. Endurance racines are therefore entirely out as data because of the nature of enduros (not running 10/10ths). We're not talking seconds a lap drop here.

    Now...this might ruffle a few feathers...but are we open to the idea that the old RA1 really wasnt as good as we remember and rather that back in the good ol' days we just werent as fast as we are now? I mean that in the collective since I'm not faster lol. But honestly, year over year lap times come down. Sure both AI and CMC had a bump in power and CMC had a bump in tire size but that was a one time deal and the lap times still come down. Maybe we just didnt know any better back then. Maybe we just werent pushing things hard enough for the 1/4 second a lap drop in peak grip to matter. Once upon a time off the shelf Koni's were rare and top guys were running Billsten HDs. Podium mustangs ran "H&R Race" spring rates. Nobody blew out control arm bushings nor did they tear out control arm mounts. Just thinking out loud...
    Al Fernandez

  4. #64
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby ShadowBolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Fernandez View Post

    Now...this might ruffle a few feathers...but are we open to the idea that the old RA1 really wasnt as good as we remember and rather that back in the good ol' days we just werent as fast as we are now? I mean that in the collective since I'm not faster lol. But honestly, year over year lap times come down. Sure both AI and CMC had a bump in power and CMC had a bump in tire size but that was a one time deal and the lap times still come down. Maybe we just didnt know any better back then. Maybe we just werent pushing things hard enough for the 1/4 second a lap drop in peak grip to matter. Once upon a time off the shelf Koni's were rare and top guys were running Billsten HDs. Podium mustangs ran "H&R Race" spring rates. Nobody blew out control arm bushings nor did they tear out control arm mounts. Just thinking out loud...
    Al, we have talked about this every time we have this discussion. It is possible the old RA1 was the same as the new one but I'm willing to bet it's not. One thing for sure is we will never know so that is why I said I would be happy to go back to the latest RA1.

    JJ

  5. #65
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby Fbody383's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Fernandez View Post
    The issue isnt durability (again correct me if I'm wrong), rather a loss of peak grip after a few heat cycles. Endurance races are therefore entirely out as data because of the nature of enduros (not running 10/10ths). We're not talking seconds a lap drop here.
    Not wrong - just perspective. If a set of tires was $100 I might not care about the rapid drop. If a set of tires was $2,000 - and dropped 10 seconds after 1 heat cycle but ran consistently after that and lasted 3 seasons I might not care. I am entirely comfortable that somebody (if not most of you guys) is ALWAYS going to outspend and/or outprep me. Along with your impressively good looks and natural driving talent...

    If a $100 tire is durable enough to race on safely, everybody runs it, and the racing is close, I don't care what the absolute laptimes are. We could race on an oiled down skidpad and if it was safe, fun, and "cheap" I would be in.

    p.s. - if I can ever get to 10/10ths in a sprint race i'll let you know.
    #39 CMC Camaro
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  6. #66
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Fernandez View Post
    The issue isnt durability (again correct me if I'm wrong), rather a loss of peak grip after a few heat cycles. Endurance racines are therefore entirely out as data because of the nature of enduros (not running 10/10ths). We're not talking seconds a lap drop here.

    Now...this might ruffle a few feathers...but are we open to the idea that the old RA1 really wasnt as good as we remember and rather that back in the good ol' days we just werent as fast as we are now? I mean that in the collective since I'm not faster lol. But honestly, year over year lap times come down. Sure both AI and CMC had a bump in power and CMC had a bump in tire size but that was a one time deal and the lap times still come down. Maybe we just didnt know any better back then. Maybe we just werent pushing things hard enough for the 1/4 second a lap drop in peak grip to matter. Once upon a time off the shelf Koni's were rare and top guys were running Billsten HDs. Podium mustangs ran "H&R Race" spring rates. Nobody blew out control arm bushings nor did they tear out control arm mounts. Just thinking out loud...
    I think that is a definite possiblity. When I started a set of tires would last all season but I was slow as christmas and only slid the car when I spun.
    Bryan Leinart
    CMC #24

  7. #67
    Senior Member Grass-Passer Suck fumes's Avatar
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    Toyo did change their compounds because back in 2008 or 2009? I remember SCCA had gotten a couple "new" RA1 sets and gave them to MSR Houston for Rivera and Ott to test to see what they were like and for data purposes on the miatas. Now why would Toyo do that if the tires stayed the same?? Mmmmm
    Last edited by Suck fumes; 09-17-2014 at 10:00 AM.

  8. #68
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    I need to order tires for TWS. I think I will order some RR's and give them another try before I go back to RA1's. Maybe it's a case where the track determines what tires to use? I'm about 98% sure the RR is faster at TWS, but I haven't tried them at other tracks.

  9. #69
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby Fbody383's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blk96gt View Post
    I'm about 98% sure the RR is faster at TWS, but I haven't tried them at other tracks.
    To me the question is up to what number of heat cycles? Will be good input since you have some skill around there.
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  10. #70
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby ShadowBolt's Avatar
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    I talked to Michael last night and he and I both hope we never have to buy another set of RR's.

    JJ

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