Jerry, keep both hands on the wheel more and replace your diff or check that your right rear shock isn't "topping out". If you can keep that tire on the ground and under power, you will be able to get on the power earlier out of the corners.
Jerry, keep both hands on the wheel more and replace your diff or check that your right rear shock isn't "topping out". If you can keep that tire on the ground and under power, you will be able to get on the power earlier out of the corners.
Ah, fugg it.
Paging Mike Patterson and other SCCA experienced guys.Originally Posted by BlueFirePony
How does SCCA intepret their passing/share-the-road rule(s):
#39 CMC Camaro
Orange is Fast!
CMC-NT01 FTW!
A bad habit I have been trying to get better. Years ago I was even worse. I have felt like the T2R was not right ever since I installed it.
JJ
SCCA - Each competitor has a right to racing room, which is generally defined as sufficient space on the marked racing surface that under racing conditions, a driver can maintain control of his car in close quarters.
NASA GTS - Section 2.2 - Modified "racing room" definition: In the NASA CCR, under section 25.4.2 "Punting," the rules define "racing room" as: "at least three-quarters of one car width." For racing between two or more GTS cars, "racing room" is hereby defined as: "at least one car width plus 6 inches."
I prefer allowing a car width of racing room.
Have I used the 3/4 rule to my advantage? - sure.
Has it been used against me? - sure.
Excellent discussion so far. From my point of view the primary purpose of the 3/4 width is to stress the responsibility to the overtaking driver and to make it easier to establish whether or not sufficient room was given. On my earlier point, I think very often overtaking drivers do not have enough grip in reserve to pinch it tighter to avoid contact. In any case regardless of 3/4, 1, 1+6"...thats not what is at the root cause of contact. The root cause is overtaking drivers attempting low percentage moves. The solution is not making it more difficult to establish fault, nor is it to shift fault to the overtaken driver rather to have consistently applied and escalating in severity penalties. James nailed it. This is my opinion as a driver only. As an official my opinion is irrelevant, the rules as written are what matter lol
Al Fernandez
There is no reason I have to put my car 1/4 car width in the dirt to avoid contact and there be no penalty assessed to the driver who put me there if I had rights to position. My personal feeling is I want the curb to be excluded from the racing surface as well.
I completely agree with Glenn’s comment above. This is amateur racing. NASA is allowing the leading car to defend its position by increasing the risk for the overtaking car and making it the overtaking cars responsibility to make a safe pass. Some competitors will follow the rules as written while others will allow more room than required by the rules to reduce the risk of contact. When I can (which is almost always) I allow 1 full car width when being passed. It is not worth the risk of damage to me.
The Midwest/Great Lakes regions have had the same race directors for years which has been very good. They know the history of the drivers very well. At every drivers meeting they reinforce penalties will be handed out per the CCR and will be increased if necessary. For the 2 regions there were 10 DQ’s for at fault contact with body damage that resulted in nine 1 race suspensions and one 2 race suspension. Six incidents in one region and four incidents in the other region. There were at least that many DQ’s for at fault contact without damage. Another thing they told us this year at every event was that the ¾ rule only applied in the turns. On a straight you weren’t allowed to force the overtaking car 2 wheels off. You must give one full car width on the straights. This was something new this year.
In CMC the last 2/3 of the year we have been running 3 races per weekend with the third race being inverted. The races are 25-35 minutes long. The inverted races are definitely the most talked about race of the weekend. We haven’t had more contact in the inverted races. I definitely feel shorter races put more pressure on to attempt passes that may not be there that can cause contact. The longer races allow a little more patience to let things sort out and still be able to make passes and move to the front. Most of our bigger wrecks occur at the start when people are trying to gain numerous positions on the first lap.
I also agree with Jerry and David 100% on video. Get it and run it all the time. If you can have both forward and backward facing video. I was amazed how bad my recollection of what happened in my mind versus what the video showed had happened. Now I won’t even talk about an incident until I watch the video first. Plus it is the single best learning tool for improving you’re racing if you are willing to study it.
But you are allowed an opinion and we can change the rule which you will enforce fairly.
#39 CMC Camaro
Orange is Fast!
CMC-NT01 FTW!
I've always raced and lived by SCCA's passing rule which is to give racing room and if there is contact which gains you a position then most of the time you get penalized. That's how I've always raced and like to race. Having to get a 3/4 car on the other car is hard to enforce when it comes to penalties enforced by the officials. Why can't NASA just keep it simple and make the rule match SCCA? Giving someone common courtesy and racing room is the way it should be. I know I'm just as guilty as any on accidental contact during certain situations but it is racing...accidents do happen.
Last edited by Suck fumes; 11-18-2014 at 10:08 PM.
Still holding my thoughts for later as I let this thread do its own thing........ but........
As the CCR is written, the overtaking car with rights to position must place the car 1/4 car width (1/4CW) in the dirt prior to contact before any fault is assigned to the lead car. Why can't we as a series (or a region via a Texas supplemental addition) change this to be that the overtaking car should be willing to leave the racing surface with at least 1/4CW, but the lead car that caused the deviation can be held accountable via a post race penalty? This way contact is avoided and the driver leaving the surface is more willing to do so knowing that the car that caused the issue can have a protest filed against them post race. The offending driver can then be placed behind the driver who left the racing surface to avoid an incident as long as there is sufficient evidence to support said protest.
Earlier it was mentioned that there was a lack of patients from the rear of the field during inverts.
If you watch this vid https://vimeo.com/110745842 (the reason I want this rule changed - straw that broke the camels back per say), you will see I was being very patient. My moves were deliberate and low risk. I cannot know that another driver does not see me. If we always assume we are not seen, then all passes are low risk. At some level, faith has to be placed in the hands of our fellow drivers to know what is going on around them. Low corner exit speed due to compromised entry/exit and offline entry to the following corner should be reason for assuming your about to get passed, particularly on an inverted start race.
So this is the reason I want this rule changed. I received more damage from trying to avoid contact than if I had stood my ground. The resulting loss of control caused contact w/ me and another driver that was very very bad for him. There was zero penalty for the driver that caused it per the CCR. In the future if the CCR stay (or our rules) the same, I'll take the contact, do the paperwork and risk the DQ. I don't need to put my car on a frame machine for a DQ. A DQ does not cause me to write checks to a body shop. ......rant off......
All of this is good and well, but none of it fixes the lack of awareness that can cause accidents the same as lack of patients.
Also - do we need to start performing visibility checks on drivers cars to ensure they have sufficient visibility in their mirrors behind and on the side? My rearview mirror is set so that I can see behind me and beside me w/ one mirror. I can see from the rear center of my car all the way around to the passenger side mirror with the rear view mirror.
More food for thought to add during the "feast".
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