Too Much Torque, Now What?

[mach1]

Me either today. Plan B in effect... hold pls.

If your dyno started at 2k is would probably be over too
Do you have the .drf dyno file for those runs?

[Fbody383]

If your dyno started at 2k is would probably be over too

Another reason to wire up the tach signal to the Traqmate

[BryanL]

250hp carrying an extra 200# because your torque is still high? I ran with ~287ft/lb in 2014 and it didn't seem to hurt me, but my hp was 260 and I didn't have to carry ballast around. With the Fords being so light, I feel it's easier for them to scrape by being low on torque but again, this is where data is king and all I have is a dyno graph.

Rules don't work that way. Even at the max limit of torque it's only 100 pounds of weight instead of 200. This is good stuff as I'm looking at 9 different dyno runs from an LT1 and every run it made more torque at 3k than at 2k. Torque generally peaked at 3,300 when running legal numbers yet peaked at 4,400 when running hp numbers way over legal. So there is plenty of data out there on cars making the number. I certainly don't know all their setups with regards to underdrive pulleys, exhaust systems,valve lash, etc. So certainly the directors will ask that you test some other variables before considering a rule change.

However, if you get the rules changed that gets me excited. Reason being that I'm also looking at the tq numbers for another LS1 which peaks before 3k as well. So I know some things that I could do to get my torque numbers above the max yet still be under by 3k. I may have also incorrectly stated earlier that the LT1 had better numbers across the board than the LS1 spreadsheets I have as I was only looking above 3k. Below 3k the LS beats the LT by 3-6 tq. Again this data is only from two cars so it can only be taken with a grain of salt.

Dave I can't see your graph either. I'll see if I can get some graphs posted up next week as well.

[mach1]

dynojet drf files are king if you can host in google drive or something along those lines, then you can load them in winpep and overlay them very easily
if someone wants to share their drf files I will load them up and overlay with mine for an example.

[Fbody383]

Dave I can't see your graph either. I'll see if I can get some graphs posted up next week as well.

Now?

[mach1]

Now?

Such a nice looking dyno, my peak numbers are 260/306, you make more power everywhere except the 4-5000rpm area.

3000
you 175
me 153

3500
you 205
me 193

4000
you 233
me 233

4500
you 250
me 250

5000
you 260
me 260

5500
you 257
me 252

5850
you 245
me 235

[Fbody383]

...you make more power everywhere but can't put down the power or corner in your silly-fat 4th gen. Long live the fox!

Dude, lighten up...

[mach1]

Dude, lighten up...

LOL, I'm just jealous, quadrabind4life

[Supercharged111]

Rules don't work that way. Even at the max limit of torque it's only 100 pounds of weight instead of 200. This is good stuff as I'm looking at 9 different dyno runs from an LT1 and every run it made more torque at 3k than at 2k. Torque generally peaked at 3,300 when running legal numbers yet peaked at 4,400 when running hp numbers way over legal. So there is plenty of data out there on cars making the number. I certainly don't know all their setups with regards to underdrive pulleys, exhaust systems,valve lash, etc. So certainly the directors will ask that you test some other variables before considering a rule change.

However, if you get the rules changed that gets me excited. Reason being that I'm also looking at the tq numbers for another LS1 which peaks before 3k as well. So I know some things that I could do to get my torque numbers above the max yet still be under by 3k. I may have also incorrectly stated earlier that the LT1 had better numbers across the board than the LS1 spreadsheets I have as I was only looking above 3k. Below 3k the LS beats the LT by 3-6 tq. Again this data is only from two cars so it can only be taken with a grain of salt.

Dave I can't see your graph either. I'll see if I can get some graphs posted up next week as well.

Derr, I was remembering the number maxxing out both hp and torque. I'll have overlays for stock vs aftermarket y pipe after my next trip to the dyno. Can you post up an LS1 shot? Also, any data you guys can provide will help this as well. I'm kind of Trackmate retarded when it comes to that stuff, but I do plan on capturing some this year and I bet Dave B would give me a down and dirty on how to interpret it. I really don't see the point in penalizing us for torque at a non-competitive engine speed unless they're doing it because the Fords come up short? Remember I'm kind of short-sighted WRT CMC when it comes to this stuff.

dynojet drf files are king if you can host in google drive or something along those lines, then you can load them in winpep and overlay them very easily
if someone wants to share their drf files I will load them up and overlay with mine for an example.

I have a Lougle Drive, would you guys be able to access it? Let's make sure Michael is a part of this too, don't want to step on his toes.

[Pranav]

Given that my driving is still in a "developmental" state, I feel a bit out of place commenting on this further. However, I've done a million dynos thanks to the motor issues and have observed how these motors fluctuate their peak torque numbers under various conditions. I will dig up all of my dynos and share. I'll try hit up cardoc and pull up all of the dynos that any CMC car has run there.

Dave, your older motor shows the problem perfectly. Compare a dyno between an "aged" LT1 vs a freshly built one. The fresh motor will have that "fake" torque spike below 3k RPMs, while an older one will peak above 3k all day. My first motor with one or more bad rings ran zero plate, made just below the 260/310, and didn't have a torque spike below 3k. All three of my built motors have peaked torque below 3k RPMs and have had to plate around 42-43mm.

This year I'm randomly running 313ft lbs vs 310 below 3k, in the same 42mm plate from last year and had to add ballast over the 3250 min (I don't have any plates smaller than 42mm). I now have to run a bunch more weight on top of the 30lb penalty just to make sure I don't have a problem dynoing higher than 313ft lbs when asked to do so.

If I take a line across the chart of my 2016 and 2015 dyno, you'll see it will be decently below 310 at the 3k mark for both.

So why is this such a huge deal? It's not the fact that we're down a few ft-lbs. It's the fact that on occasion, a number of the LT1 guys have fallen prey to the occasional crappy dyno (lol MSRH) and have had to run way too much plate and/or ballast up to stay legal, despite all of those same charts showing they were safely at/below the 310/260 mark above 3k RPMs. Once we are expected to run penalty weight for going over the power numbers, we have to add even more weight to allow for the risk of dynoing higher than the original cert if asked to do so during the season.

Remember, weight penalizes a car not only under acceleration, but also under braking and turning. Yes the 4th gens have to run more weight to compensate for a better everything, but running significant penalty weight for extra output exclusively over an unusable power band range doesn't seem right.

If you're running below 3k RPMs on track, like Glenn said elsewhere, you'll get your ass handed to you.