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Thread: Texas Mustang Challenge Review 2016/2015

  1. #11
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby ShadowBolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mach1 View Post
    My times were way off but the car had a bad opti, 4600rpm is about all it would pull, the diff was blown, torque arm wasn't tight, etc. Based on feel it was great in the corners, but who knows if that would translate to a fast time. Now that the car is sorted maybe he will let me drive it at MSRH and we can compare.
    Great. If you were able to beat your Mustang times or equal them that would go a long way in figuring this out.

    JJ

  2. #12
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby Fbody383's Avatar
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    We need Sean to jump in about how the #39 races relative to the #15. And will be interesting to get him back in the #15 to see how the changes feel to him.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowBolt View Post
    I would be willing to let my Trackmate be used to see if there is really a difference and how much of a difference.
    That might be a good tack to take. Data I've compared to Jander seems to show night and day under braking - Mustang by a ton. Some of that could certainly be operator error on my part.
    #39 CMC Camaro
    Orange is Fast!
    CMC-NT01 FTW!

  3. #13
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby
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    I'm pretty sure the parity rules were the same in 2014 where the April TWS event Dan Alford ran the fastest time in Race 1 over any mustang, and Glenn ran a blistering 1:56.9 in R2, faster than any mustang in that race, and faster than any mustang ran this past TWS during any Race. I'd say the rules are good.
    Last edited by mach1; 10-21-2016 at 04:46 PM.
    Tyler Gardner
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  4. #14
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby RichardP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mach1 View Post
    I'm pretty sure the parity rules were the same in 2014 where the April TWS event Dan Alford ran the fastest time in Race 1 over any mustang, and Glenn ran a blistering 1:56.9 in R2, faster than any mustang in that race, and faster than any mustang ran this past TWS during any Race. I'd say the rules are good.
    Craig ran a 1:55.9 in his Mustang on Saturday. Comparing lap times between events isn't all that helpful. It's nice that you recognize that Dan can be one of the faster cars even though he has nothing for the current crop of front running Mustangs.


    Richard P.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardP View Post
    Craig ran a 1:55.9 in his Mustang on Saturday. Comparing lap times between events isn't all that helpful. It's nice that you recognize that Dan can be one of the faster cars even though he has nothing for the current crop of front running Mustangs.


    Richard P.
    That wasn't a racing time, no one even came close in the races.
    Tyler Gardner
    CMC #13 2015-2017
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    www.dfwmustangs.net

  6. #16
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby RichardP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trublu View Post
    Commiserations mate. I'm liking Glenn getting his car back together and James starting to think about it again......who knows maybe GM is on its way back
    James sold his car. It was competing against us this past weekend with its new owner. We keep asking him to come back every time we talk to him but I don't think it's happening. I'm so tired of people saying that if James was around that he would still be winning. I've heard it a lot of times. In James' last full season, when he won the championship, Dan won six races competing against him and finished right behind him in the points. Why would James be winning when Dan can't?

    I also heard for a while that Dan couldn't win anymore because the car was too tired and worn out. The new car is certainly more reliable, so far, but not faster.


    Richard P.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby
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    Having BOTH in our garage...I will add that it depends on the track as to which one is better. TWS? Camaro. Cresson? Mustang. Overall? Camaro. Which camaro? Well, maybe a 3rd gen with some pushing of the limits on the rules now that the 5.3 is allowed.

    Given there are ZERO CMC 3rd/4th gens pushing the limit of the rules and there are SEVERAL mustangs knocking loudly on that door, I'd say the camaro drivers need to trim their mullets and get all the empty beer cans out of the cars and actually do some serious development on the cars. Dan and Richard probably do their homework but the rest of you guys REALLY need to stop relying on Frrax for help and start throwing time/money at the cars and get some data on what works and what doesn't work. At the very least you will get some seat time. Hell, I'd LOVE to drive Bryan's car for a race and see what I could get out of it sometime. If any of you guys want to come to a TWS PDS event and do some development work, let me know. I'll be glad to work with you since I am usually just goofing off anyway.
    Ah, fugg it.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby RichardP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AI#97 View Post
    Given there are ZERO CMC 3rd/4th gens pushing the limit of the rules and there are SEVERAL mustangs knocking loudly on that door, I'd say the camaro drivers need to trim their mullets and get all the empty beer cans out of the cars and actually do some serious development on the cars.

    "ZERO" Piss off! There has been no expense spared preparing the Silver Camaro to the limit of the rules and we have done a bunch of development on it on non-race weekends. What has it gotten us? Dan is doing very well in Camaro-Camaro Challenge. At TWS, he was the fastest Camaro in both qualifying sessions, the fastest Camaro in every race, and the highest Camaro finisher in all four races. His driving got him to the lead of both inverts (on Saturday, that didn't last long). Both times Dan was sent to the scales after a race, he came across 10 pounds over, exactly as scripted.

    Dan also spent so much money on tires this year. I think it was a huge waste of money. Why? Even though fresh tires make us faster, every time (which is fucking offensive for club level racing) they didn't do a thing to make us run with Mustangs. Besides, Camaro tires cost more - the car is heavier so it goes through them faster and they are subsidized much less by Toyo bucks than Mustang tires.


    Richard P.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Grass-Passer Boudy's Avatar
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    I agree with Richard. These cars under these limited rules are pretty much developed out, there are no revelations left. I would recommend giving Dan or some other driver a Data Collection Pass for the first 2 events and evaluate the results. Give him 50 lbs, 1" back, and see what happens. Make appropriate changes as necessary for everyone else. It's not exact but tossing 50 lbs back and forth across the fence is going to prove pointless for the next 5 years as it has the last. I pleaded for testing and data points on my way out and nothing has evolved yet.

    I'm also disgusted with the tires that NASA is taking money from TOYO to make us run, they suck. It took 3 sets (read $4,000) to get through the Nationals last year in Spec Iron. Ridiculous!!! These tires can drop off as much as 2 seconds as early as the 3rd event on heavier cars. As a result front guys are buying 3 to 4 sets for 6 events which I think, more than anything else accounts for the results cited in the OP.

    Boudy

  10. #20
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby
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    How many lt1 4th gens are able to actually make it below 3300 on the new scales NASA got a season or two ago?

    I'm low 3300s but start each race on a full tank, have a cool suit, fire system, and maybe a few extra pounds in electrical than most. I'll have no problem making 3300 with the aluminum block next year, I'll have to ballast up.

    Just curious if any lt1 4th gen is close to 3250.

    Also why the heck did the 3rd gens also get the same weight minimum as the 4th gens? The weight balance, steering, camber curve, and aero are all worse. If anything I think they should get 50lbs less but that is just my humble opinion.

    Right now im fighting to have one complete season on the same engine.
    Last edited by Pranav; 10-22-2016 at 03:11 AM.

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