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Thread: Texas Mustang Challenge Review 2016/2015

  1. #21
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardP View Post
    "ZERO" Piss off! There has been no expense spared preparing the Silver Camaro to the limit of the rules and we have done a bunch of development on it on non-race weekends. What has it gotten us? Dan is doing very well in Camaro-Camaro Challenge. At TWS, he was the fastest Camaro in both qualifying sessions, the fastest Camaro in every race, and the highest Camaro finisher in all four races. His driving got him to the lead of both inverts (on Saturday, that didn't last long). Both times Dan was sent to the scales after a race, he came across 10 pounds over, exactly as scripted.

    Dan also spent so much money on tires this year. I think it was a huge waste of money. Why? Even though fresh tires make us faster, every time (which is fucking offensive for club level racing) they didn't do a thing to make us run with Mustangs. Besides, Camaro tires cost more - the car is heavier so it goes through them faster and they are subsidized much less by Toyo bucks than Mustang tires.


    Richard P.
    Richard, you obviously missed the part where I credited you and Dan for doing your homework so go piss on your own leg. As for "offensive for club racing", try running in Super touring where the top dog is going out on fresh Hoosiers every day and has a $350k Doug Rippie world challenge car with a $30k sequential transmission in it. It's racing and someone will always outspend you. Be Wiley and beat them while spending less or being a better driver.

    As has been stated, the Camaro dominated in the past. Sadly, those three drivers haven't raced in a while. If they had, I bet the mustang might not look so good.
    Ah, fugg it.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby Fbody383's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pranav View Post
    How many lt1 4th gens are able to actually make it below 3300 on the new scales NASA got a season or two ago?
    The #39 dynoed at 262/308ish - race weight it 3275. We shoot for 3290.

    WITH 70lbs of BALLAST.

    I have few to no issues with the scales - due to my bad math I was underweight at MSRH in the #15, we added ballast and came out within 5lbs of what we wanted/needed at TWS.

    Quote Originally Posted by AI#97
    As has been stated, the Camaro dominated in the past. Sadly, those three drivers haven't raced in a while. If they had, I bet the mustang might not look so good.
    Under what ruleset with which tires?

    At this point I will not claim we've done everything we could (i.e. spend more money than I currently want to) do to the #39. Fresh shocks are on the list; yes, they've been on the car since 2009. Cheap things we can look at over the winter - corner weights, bars, springs, maybe some track time.

    I'm more than happy to share data with anyone that wants a copy.
    Last edited by Fbody383; 10-22-2016 at 08:19 PM.
    #39 CMC Camaro
    Orange is Fast!
    CMC-NT01 FTW!

  3. #23
    I generally scale 70# over weight post race. Nothing to do with the car....

    Something to consider GM guys.... Loose is not fast despite what Ricky Bobby might say. I've not seen a Camaro that isn't...

  4. #24
    Senior Member Grass-Passer
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    Quote Originally Posted by AI#97 View Post
    Having BOTH in our garage...I will add that it depends on the track as to which one is better. TWS? Camaro. Cresson? Mustang. Overall? Camaro. Which camaro? Well, maybe a 3rd gen with some pushing of the limits on the rules now that the 5.3 is allowed.

    Given there are ZERO CMC 3rd/4th gens pushing the limit of the rules and there are SEVERAL mustangs knocking loudly on that door, I'd say the camaro drivers need to trim their mullets and get all the empty beer cans out of the cars and actually do some serious development on the cars. Dan and Richard probably do their homework but the rest of you guys REALLY need to stop relying on Frrax for help and start throwing time/money at the cars and get some data on what works and what doesn't work. At the very least you will get some seat time. Hell, I'd LOVE to drive Bryan's car for a race and see what I could get out of it sometime. If any of you guys want to come to a TWS PDS event and do some development work, let me know. I'll be glad to work with you since I am usually just goofing off anyway.
    I am in! Let me know!

  5. #25
    Senior Member Grass-Passer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trublu View Post
    I generally scale 70# over weight post race. Nothing to do with the car....

    Something to consider GM guys.... Loose is not fast despite what Ricky Bobby might say. I've not seen a Camaro that isn't...
    Craig, I am still Amazed how you took you your car from what it was, and made it perform! Major Kudos!
    I have a lot to learn.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby Supercharged111's Avatar
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    Loose is not fast indeed. My ideal setup is a smidge of understeer until I put down the skinny pedal. At least that's what I've told myself.
    RM CMC Director

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Storm Trooper View Post
    Craig, I am still Amazed how you took you your car from what it was, and made it perform! Major Kudos!
    I have a lot to learn.
    Thanks Sean. Happy to help you any way I can

  8. #28
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby AllZWay's Avatar
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    I am not coming back anytime soon and I wasn't winning much in my last season. Don't remember for sure how many, but I think they may have all been inverts.

    My personal feeling and with no data to back it up is at that the Mustangs have really picked up their game from a few years ago and now possibly the rule changes are working in their favor.

    I also don't think there is much more that can be gained out of either platform at this point with the current rules.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby RichardP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boudy View Post
    These tires can drop off as much as 2 seconds as early as the 3rd event on heavier cars. As a result front guys are buying 3 to 4 sets for 6 events which I think, more than anything else accounts for the results cited in the OP.

    Boudy
    We aren't seeing a 2 second drop but bringing the tires to a third event? Really? That would be a complete waste of time. And, besides, if I let Dan drive that long on a set of tires, Josh and I would have anything to use at DE's...


    Richard P.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby RichardP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pranav View Post
    How many lt1 4th gens are able to actually make it below 3300 on the new scales NASA got a season or two ago?

    I'm low 3300s but start each race on a full tank, have a cool suit, fire system, and maybe a few extra pounds in electrical than most. I'll have no problem making 3300 with the aluminum block next year, I'll have to ballast up.

    Just curious if any lt1 4th gen is close to 3250.

    Proctor's old car could make weight pretty easy but fourth gen weight was a known problem back when it was built so it was a major driver in its construction with a minimum legal cage, etc. It currently running 10 lbs of ballast and a full tank to stay above its minimum weight of 3260.

    Dan's car isn't minimalist in any way. It has a very nice and very safe cage. It also has a fuel cell, subframe connectors, etc. He is maxed out on horsepower for the chart in the rules and still struggles to meet his minimum weight of 3355. We also haven't gotten around to installing the fire system yet. Based on the incident at TWS, and the charred mess drooling multiple fluids onto the floor of our shop, I'm guessing Dan won't want to start the new season without that installed. The fire system will weigh a little bit more than the ballast we currently have. I'm guessing we might have a hard time getting to our minimum allowed weight without fuel starving. Also, Dan isn't the biggest guy and he doesn't run a cool suit. I would be way over if I drove it - I have a much bigger gut and I need a cool suit...

    There is no desire or intent to go to an aluminum block LS engine for either of our cars.


    Richard P.

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