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Thread: '18 Spec Miata Cahmpionship

  1. #21
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby ShadowBolt's Avatar
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    Does this mod really help or did these guys get screwed?

    JJ

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowBolt View Post
    Does this mod really help or did these guys get screwed?

    JJ
    I'd lean towards screwed, they were pushing the rules though... They didn't pick up nearly as much power as an aftermarket diff cover would, thats for sure.
    Tyler Gardner
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  3. #23
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby ShadowBolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mach1 View Post
    I'd lean towards screwed, they were pushing the rules though... They didn't pick up nearly as much power as an aftermarket diff cover would, thats for sure.
    If this modification did not give these guys any kind of advantage NASA will be the loser on this one. I'm like BL as far as I wonder what the other SM guys think. Are they glad the guys got caught doing something they knew about but did not do to their own cars because they wanted to make sure they followed the rules or do they think NASA dropped the ball and took a win away from a guy that deserved the win?

    JJ

  4. #24
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby RichardP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowBolt View Post
    If this modification did not give these guys any kind of advantage NASA will be the loser on this one.

    I donít agree with this sentiment. The rules allow stock or remanufactured axle assemblies that are unmodified.

    In this specific instance, they donít define the specific details of the cage dimensions other than they are supposed to be ďstock.Ē So what is the stock dimension? What is the tolerance in that dimension? How do they wear? In the ďtypicalĒ (whatever that means) rebuild, how is this part refurbished and how does that affect the dimensions? These questions can make this a tough determination on legality.

    In my opinion, based on the pictures shown in Speed News, the cage shown was probably modified intentionally beyond any dimension that would be found in a stock or rebuilt axle assembly. There is a pretty significant difference between the stock picture and the modified picture. If this was a part ordered off of RockAuto.com like this and bolted on, then yes, this would be a big screw job. We know that wasnít the case in this instance. Was this an intentional modification intended to improve performance? Donít know. Seems like it probably was. Maybe the modification just makes it easier to assemble? It doesnít really matter. Itís not a stock dimensioned part so itís not legal.

    So, does this modification affect performance? Maybe, maybe not. Iím going with probably not. I certainly donít have a belief that the winner was able to win because of these cheater axles and wouldnít have won without them.

    From the NASA side, the performance advantage doesnít really matter. The car is legal or it isnít. The effectiveness of illegal parts isnít NASAís responsibility to determine. It's like saying I have 10Ē wide wheels on my CMC car but itís OK because they are 27 pounds so they arenít an advantage. Thatís not how it works. Or a more direct parallel would be saying I have something that many people might consider ram air on my CMC car but I have data that shows that itís ineffective. Huh? If it doesnít help, why are you doing something that could get you disqualified by someoneís opinion? A poorly implemented illegal modification that isnít an advantage doesnít make it legal. It just doesnít.

    So why would they do something like this? Competition at the front of the Miata field is brutal. I doubt they thought that this modification was a secret big advantage. Itís probably more that every part on the car has had this level of attention placed on it. For most parts that actually do affect performance, there is a specific number to shoot for. For stuff like this, the limits are much more ambiguous. At this level, driver is still 95% of it, but all of the extremely little details do add up.

    Richard P.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby
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    All I have is hearsay. But I think the winner Haldeman has said his axles are straight from Mazda in 2013/14 and untouched. The car was specifically built to win championships and only run in a few of the championships knowing it would be torn down.
    The other guy with that long post brought up that NASA was on a witch hunt for him and Haldamen was collateral damage.

    There was some that echoed the sentiment that people in certain regions have been defecting from NASA SM and choosing to go with SCCA based on some of the same things like this. Using something they knew was going on as a way to bust certain people.

    Sounded like screwed to me and agree the axles didn't allow him to move up 20 places or how many ever he did to get to first place.
    Bryan Leinart
    CMC #24

  6. #26
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    I do think this is going to hurt NASA at least with SM
    Tyler Gardner
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  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by mach1 View Post
    I do think this is going to hurt NASA at least with SM
    Agreed. It would be interesting if NASA went and bought 10 remanned axles from brands these guys claim to have bought and tear then down. If they find that some have these huge cages then maybe the guys with them have a leg to stand on... Idk, seems like it would be an interesting study to make everyone happier with the decisions ...
    Daniel Records
    CMC # 34

  8. #28
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby ShadowBolt's Avatar
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    Okay so if it was an advantage or not does not matter but can you imagine how you would feel if it was a rebuilt unit from RockAuto and you drove your guts out and passed twenty cars to win 70 grand and it was taken away for this...….?
    I don't have a dog in the fight but it sucks. I'm guessing this mod was done to get some kind of advantage. ten small mods like this may add up to a tenth a lap.

    JJ

  9. #29
    Agree Jerry...with remans I just don't know how you police it unless they expect every competitor to tear down his/her new axle and check the cage size before installing. Then again...Im also in the camp that thinks there was a perceived performance advantage to having bigger balls in the cars in question.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowBolt View Post
    Okay so if it was an advantage or not does not matter but can you imagine how you would feel if it was a rebuilt unit from RockAuto and you drove your guts out and passed twenty cars to win 70 grand and it was taken away for this...….?
    I don't have a dog in the fight but it sucks. I'm guessing this mod was done to get some kind of advantage. ten small mods like this may add up to a tenth a lap.

    JJ
    Daniel Records
    CMC # 34

  10. #30
    Senior Member Grass-Passer Suck fumes's Avatar
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    I’ve known Haldeman for 10yrs and I can tell you for a FACT that he would never do anything intentionally to break the rules and I know that car he won with IS 100% legal and I’m sure he will win the SCCA sonoma runoffs coming up with the same car.
    ďA man with no enemies is a man with no character.Ē
    ― Paul Newman

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