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Thread: 2019 Rules Discussion

  1. #1
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby
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    2019 Rules Discussion

    https://nasa-assets.s3.amazonaws.com...enge_Rules.pdf Nice pic of Jander!

    Here are what I see in red/highlighted for changes and my questions.

    A. 6.5.2 The slotting, cutting, or drilling of the front bumper cover, headlights and underlying bumper
    structure may be modified by both removing material and adding ducting material to provide
    additional cooling air to the radiator, brakes, or coolers is allowed provided that:

    *So the front bumper/headlight area can't be used to duct air towards the engine air filter? If there is material removed does it have to duct to the radiator, brakes or coolers? It can't be just an open hole that might allow air to hit the filter?

    B.6.5.12 A strip of up to 1x1x1/8 angle iron may be welded to the bottom of the K member to protect
    the oil pan.
    *The Pranav Off Roading Rule?

    C. 6.9.9 Installation of non-OEM electrical devices to defeat OEM anti-theft circuitry is allowed. Any such
    device must be external to the PCM and serve no other function.

    D. 6.19 Accessory Pulleys/Belts
    All engine accessories must remain OEM stock unless stated elsewhere in these rules. Engine
    accessory mounting brackets may be substituted, removed, or modified from stock to allow mounting
    of the power steering pump and alternator removal of the air conditioning compressor and smog
    pump but changes may serve no other purpose.

    *Is this allowing substituting an aftermarket bracket to mount the alternator/power steering in the stock location (LS related for truck motors)

    E. 6.21.5 Any air filter or air filter assembly may be fitted and OE assemblies may be modified. Air boxes
    and filters must reside inside the engine compartment or in the OEM stock location. Air filter
    installations intentionally designed to create, or that appear to create a ram air effect are not allowed,
    even if they were OEM stock. A ram air intake shall be defined as one that sources its air from a
    location on the exterior of the car or the radiator ducting and is ducted and sealed from that source to
    the throttle body/carb. Ducting that has gaps or openings smaller than 5 square inches total will be
    considered sealed.

    *Does this make it legal or illegal to have the bottom lid on the LS cut open?

    F. 6.29.2 Both GM and Ford cars may also use a Ford 9, GM 12 bolt, or Dana 44 rear axle housing, but
    the housing must maintain both the exact OEM suspension pickup points and OEM rear end
    geometry as the originally equipped axle assembly. Any gear ratio equal to or numerically lower than
    4.11 that fits the stock/alternate differential case without modification may be used. Differentials may
    be fully locked (welded) or use any commercially available mechanical limited slip.
    6.29.3 Any gear ratio equal to or numerically lower than 4.11 that fits the stock/alternate differential
    case without modification may be used. Differentials may be fully locked (welded) or use any
    commercially available mechanical limited slip. Any commercially available replacement type steel or
    alloy steel axles may be used. Full floater axles are prohibited. Heavy-duty non-C" Clip style axle
    13
    ends are allowed and recommended. Competitors should carefully select axle ends. Many of the "C"
    clip eliminator axle ends are designed for street or drag strip use only and cannot withstand the side
    loads associated with road racing.

    *So the Fords still get the best rearend with more posi and gear options since I can't install a 9". And I can't install a bolt in 8.8 that I can order online for my F body? Glad I picked up a good T2R.

    G. 6.29.4 Any commercially available replacement type steel or alloy steel axles may be used. Full
    floater axles are prohibited. Heavy-duty non-C" Clip style axle ends are allowed and recommended.
    Competitors should carefully select axle ends. Many of the "C" clip eliminator axle ends are designed
    for street or drag strip use only and cannot withstand the side loads associated with road racing.
    Differentials or differential covers may have a drain plug added. Differential covers may be
    substituted.

    *No diff cover discussions while jumping over the fire? I'm not coming to the races anymore.

    H Dyno - See the sheet as it has exhaust restrictor sizes added.
    Bryan Leinart
    CMC #24

  2. #2
    Senior Member Grass-Passer Alien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BryanL View Post
    E. 6.21.5 Any air filter or air filter assembly may be fitted and OE assemblies may be modified. Air boxes
    and filters must reside inside the engine compartment or in the OEM stock location. Air filter
    installations intentionally designed to create, or that appear to create a ram air effect are not allowed,
    even if they were OEM stock. A ram air intake shall be defined as one that sources its air from a
    location on the exterior of the car or the radiator ducting and is ducted and sealed from that source to
    the throttle body/carb. Ducting that has gaps or openings smaller than 5 square inches total will be
    considered sealed.

    *Does this make it legal or illegal to have the bottom lid on the LS cut open?
    If opening the bottom of an LS lid is illegal, then the stock TPI airbox also illegal since it sources its air from infront of the radiator assuming you have the radiator 'sealed'. I don't see how it could be ram air considering the radiator itself is a huge bleed off of any built up air pressure.


    Quote Originally Posted by BryanL View Post
    F. 6.29.2 Both GM and Ford cars may also use a Ford 9, GM 12 bolt, or Dana 44 rear axle housing, but
    the housing must maintain both the exact OEM suspension pickup points and OEM rear end
    geometry as the originally equipped axle assembly.

    *So the Fords still get the best rearend with more posi and gear options since I can't install a 9". And I can't install a bolt in 8.8 that I can order online for my F body? Glad I picked up a good T2R.
    The strikethroughs don't paste into the forum. I thought Bryan was off his rocker (well, still do), until I clicked the rules link. I thought this rule has been in place for a long time, and it's now getting removed? 10-bolt or bust (or an Austrailian 9-bolt I suppose)?
    - Gary R.
    '86 Camaro Z28 "KNOCKER"

  3. #3
    Senior Member Grass-Passer Supercharged111's Avatar
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    A: The intent was to allow flappydoodles to be riveted to the side of a 4th gen fog light hole to help direct more air to brake ducting or fluid coolers, or some other similarly creative thing like that.

    B: Pranav isn't the only one who likes racing in the dirt. Randy Bo Bandy apparently has lost a couple of oil pans and I remember Perry bashed his y pipe shut at Hallett way back in 2014. I seem to recall Gary catching some air at Hallett's T10 this year too.


    C: This one should have been changed as soon as we allowed PCM flashing to keep the CEL off with emissions deleted.


    D: I attempted to convey the relocating of accessories on a 3rd gen, but didn't get it concise enough. As it reads now it only allows a guy LS swapping a 4th gen to source a cheaper aftermarket but stock replacement accessory mount. I don't think anyone in a 3rd gen with truck accessories is going to get DQ'd, hopefully we can capture it better next RCR season. In the meantime, I wouldn't sweat it.


    E: If the stock opening and everything between it and the filter is left open and is larger than 5 sq in, then it is legal by the rules. I know the opening isn't very tall and not sure if it chokes down as it approaches the filter, so be careful with that (or hack the opening up bigger to create a legal bleed). The idea here is that some people perceive that a brake duct hose blowing air from a headlight in the general direction of a cone filter could be giving ram air which is total BS, you need a high pressure source and sealed ducting for that. The idea with 5 sq in bleed is that people are creating cold air intakes in accordance with the intent of the rules and not making a ram air intake, popping a couple 3/8" holes so it's not sealed, and calling it good. This one took a few tries to get where it is now, but we may need to revisit since apparently the TPI motors are ram air from the factory? Can you guys post better pics of the ducting? I found the top bit but not all of it. Thought we'd covered our bases here.


    F: Should bought that 9" sooner, there was only 1 guy in the whole country running one and he backpeddled from AI. It doesn't seem to be a popular mod, people in my region aren't blowing up 10 bolts, and it didn't seem to be inline with a budget minded class to allow $3,000 diffs. It was originially put in place to grandfather in A sedan cars from SCCA but there aren't any of those left that I'm aware of. Now if Kaaz or O.S. Giken would make a diff for our cars I'd be all over that.
    RM CMC Director

  4. #4
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby
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    I always thought Gary had everyone snowed over and was cheating like crazy. (Yes I provided the link so you can scan for the highlighted portions)

    F. I'll send in an RCR next year to allow the bolt in 8.8 for the F bodies to give the options of better posi's and gear selection that the Fords have over the GM's.

    A. So the headlight has to be there unless it's ducting to an approved source? It can't be left open or have a hose directing air to an air filter? This is connected to E. 6.21.5 which seems still be allowing a Cold Air Intake but not a Ram Air??

    D. Sounds good to allow the 4th Gen truck motors a better alternative to finding brackets for the F Body accessories-good stuff but the 3rd gen needs the allowance for whatever they do.

    E. You can call BS about ducting a hose to the filter as being Ram Air but it's semantics trying to say whether a ducted hose going to an air filter is ram air or cold air. If a headlight gets cold air that directs it at the filter and the car is going 130 it's likely going to help compared to an air filter not getting any cold air directed at it in the engine bay.
    Bryan Leinart
    CMC #24

  5. #5
    Senior Member Grass-Passer Supercharged111's Avatar
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    A. So the headlight has to be there unless it's ducting to an approved source? It can't be left open or have a hose directing air to an air filter? This is connected to E. 6.21.5 which seems still be allowing a Cold Air Intake but not a Ram Air??

    Don't forget about 6.9.2

    All cars must have a minimum of two properly functioning OEM rear brake light assemblies. All other OEM light assemblies may be replaced with facsimiles, plates, covers, or mesh covered cooling duct openings as long as these maintain the stock external appearance. Replacements for recessed lights must also be recessed. Front turn signals and fog lights may be removed.
    So some semblance of a light must remain. I can see about deleting the work "cooling" from there and we should be good to go.

    D. Sounds good to allow the 4th Gen truck motors a better alternative to finding brackets for the F Body accessories-good stuff but the 3rd gen needs the allowance for whatever they do.

    It's kinda unclear, but the intent was to capture that with allowing mounts to be substituted as long as doing so only allowed accessories to be bolted to the block. It gets a little muddy when you consider that the 3rd gen can't use a 4th gen PS pump. I'll cook up a clearer (and hopefully concise) alteration to the rules for next go around. In the meantime, don't sweat running truck stuff on a 3rd gen.

    E. You can call BS about ducting a hose to the filter as being Ram Air but it's semantics trying to say whether a ducted hose going to an air filter is ram air or cold air. If a headlight gets cold air that directs it at the filter and the car is going 130 it's likely going to help compared to an air filter not getting any cold air directed at it in the engine bay.

    Well you're allowed to do it now, so if you feel threatened by others who are already taking advantage of this go for it. It's neither expensive nor difficult and the new rule makes it much, much easier to police aftermarket and custom setups.

    F. I'll send in an RCR next year to allow the bolt in 8.8 for the F bodies to give the options of better posi's and gear selection that the Fords have over the GM's.

    While you're at it, put one in to allow the Ferds to run a torque arm and the GMs to choose their inboard mounting position for the panhard rod. 😉
    RM CMC Director

  6. #6
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby michaelmosty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BryanL View Post

    F. I'll send in an RCR next year to allow the bolt in 8.8 for the F bodies to give the options of better posi's and gear selection that the Fords have over the GM's.
    That is too funny that you find one of the only advantages a Mustang has over the GM and think it needs to be allowed for you to have it also. Now that is a good campfire discussion for MSRH in a couple of months!!
    -Michael Mosty
    CMC2 #11 "Mosty Brothers' Racing"
    2011 TX Region - CMC2 Champion

  7. #7
    Senior Member Grass-Passer Alien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supercharged111 View Post
    E: This one took a few tries to get where it is now, but we may need to revisit since apparently the TPI motors are ram air from the factory? Can you guys post better pics of the ducting? I found the top bit but not all of it. Thought we'd covered our bases here.
    First off, I haven't stayed in a Holiday Inn recently, so I may be reading the rule wrong. If the radiator itself counts as a 5" air bleed (whatever that is), then forget everything I said and don't read on. I know the rule was made/adjusted for a completely different scenario, but may have an unintended consequence. What's throwing me off is bolded "A ram air intake shall be defined as one that sources its air from a location on the exterior of the car or the radiator ducting and is ducted and sealed from that source to the throttle body/carb.

    The TPI from the factory is not ram air. I know I know, I'm probably the only one in the country running an LT1 thru a TPI intake (and a T5 to boot).
    Throttle body gets airs from TPI intake...



    which houses the filters...



    which sit ontop of a box that gets air from infront of the radiator.
    (top view)

    (bottom view)


    In factory form, there's all the normal gaps on the sides and bottom of the radiator. In accordance with 6.52, 6.54 & 6.25.3, boxing in the radiator is legal. After fighting overheating problems my first season, I converted to a front breather and did away with the air deflector all together.



    The top, sides, and bottom I would consider ductwork for the radiator.
    All air that goes thru the grille opening goes thru the radiator or air filter.

    FWIW, I actually have a TPI box with the bottom cut out. Dyno'd it and was too high tq, and swapped in one that wasn't cut (and still had the rain deflectors too). Didn't make a lick of difference to the HP/TQ numbers with the bigass industrial fan they had blowing on the front of the car.
    Last edited by Alien; 11-29-2018 at 11:54 PM.
    - Gary R.
    '86 Camaro Z28 "KNOCKER"

  8. #8
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby
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    Gary whats your interpretation of the difference in a cold air vs ram air system? Nice aero belly skin, too!

    Thanks Michael-campfires in Houston are the best part of going down there. I'll make a topic wheel to spin and have rearends, weight, torque arms, and drink for every f bomb from a particular racer.
    Bryan Leinart
    CMC #24

  9. #9
    Senior Member Grass-Passer Supercharged111's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alien View Post
    First off, I haven't stayed in a Holiday Inn recently, so I may be reading the rule wrong. If the radiator itself counts as a 5" air bleed (whatever that is), then forget everything I said and don't read on. I know the rule was made/adjusted for a completely different scenario, but may have an unintended consequence. What's throwing me off is bolded "A ram air intake shall be defined as one that sources its air from a location on the exterior of the car or the radiator ducting and is ducted and sealed from that source to the throttle body/carb.

    The TPI from the factory is not ram air. I know I know, I'm probably the only one in the country running an LT1 thru a TPI intake (and a T5 to boot).
    Throttle body gets airs from TPI intake...
    In my mind, the rule was written (WRT drawing air from a sealed radiator shroud) to prevent a guy from hacking out the bottom of his LS1 airbox and then sealing off the front factory inlet. My Z06 draws its air from a sealed housing plopped on top of the radiator shroud. It's a bottom breather like a 4th gen. The Hurricane that I run and the Vararam that's still available don't do much on the dyno if anything in terms of hp gains, but they consistently shave ~.3 seconds off of the 1/4 mile. So no, the radiator itself does not count as a 5 sq in bleed. I can certainly see your concern here, but it goes to show that the rule needed to be better written so it's simpler to understand the concept and enforce.


    Quote Originally Posted by BryanL View Post
    Gary whats your interpretation of the difference in a cold air vs ram air system? Nice aero belly skin, too!

    Thanks Michael-campfires in Houston are the best part of going down there. I'll make a topic wheel to spin and have rearends, weight, torque arms, and drink for every f bomb from a particular racer.
    There is no interpretation difference between cold and ram air. If you draw air from the front of the car or radiator shroud have a 5 sq in bleed, you're not ram air and if you don't, you are.
    RM CMC Director

  10. #10
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby michaelmosty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BryanL View Post
    Gary whats your interpretation of the difference in a cold air vs ram air system? Nice aero belly skin, too!

    Thanks Michael-campfires in Houston are the best part of going down there. I'll make a topic wheel to spin and have rearends, weight, torque arms, and drink for every f bomb from a particular racer.
    I like it!!!
    -Michael Mosty
    CMC2 #11 "Mosty Brothers' Racing"
    2011 TX Region - CMC2 Champion

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