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Thread: More durable/affordable tire option?

  1. #11
    The RR is durable, it'll last 3-5 weekends in terms of rubber. It's the first weekend that's 2 seconds/lap faster that's the issue. If Toyo baked out the tires before they sold them we'd probably not be having this conversation.

    A tire that's equally bad for 3 weekends would be excellent. A tire that's fast the first weekend and horrible forever after doesn't make for a good amateur race tire IMO.

    - Josh
    CMC #50

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowBolt View Post
    I think Nitto is made by or owned by Toyo.
    My question is how many more racers could we get if we had a tire that lasted three weekends?

    JJ
    I don't know the answer to this, I don't know that it's something we can count on...most people who look to get into the sport come at it from a car cost perspective and less on what consumables cost initially. At least that was my experience.

    I'm coming at this from the angle that it's unsustainable to have a $10k race car and spend $6-8k on tires per season to be competitive.

    That being said, I think CMC will be a more attractive landing spot for folks making the step to W2W if we have competitive operating costs. To attract more racers I think we should look to what Spec Corvette is doing w.r.t. social media presence, etc. Different subject for a different thread though...
    Daniel Records
    CMC # 34

  3. #13
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby
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    It would be great to stay Toyo and maybe work some kind of contingency, I hear the R1R falls off pretty quick after a few laps though. I wonder what the best 200TW tire is for our application.
    Tyler Gardner
    CMC #13 2015-2017
    SM #013 2018
    www.dfwmustangs.net

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by mach1 View Post
    It would be great to stay Toyo and maybe work some kind of contingency, I hear the R1R falls off pretty quick after a few laps though. I wonder what the best 200TW tire is for our application.
    A quick Google says they get greasy in higher temps and were more aimed at being an AX tire. We're limited by the 275/40/17, and my goal was to keep that size because we would be able to keep same wheels, etc. I'll do some more research on all the tires in 275/40/17 in the 200TW range and report back this evening. My main priority is a tire that's consistent through it's life and still fun to drive on...
    Daniel Records
    CMC # 34

  5. #15
    Ahh, the annual tire thread. My two cents: Wouldn’t it be simpler to have a tire allowance per season retaining Toyos and contingency they offer? Plenty of race classes manage this fairly easily

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Trublu View Post
    Ahh, the annual tire thread. My two cents: Wouldn’t it be simpler to have a tire allowance per season retaining Toyos and contingency they offer? Plenty of race classes manage this fairly easily
    Which classes? I had not heard of that working. Not a bad idea, seems like it would be hard to police.

    - Josh
    CMC #50

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trublu View Post
    Ahh, the annual tire thread. My two cents: Wouldn’t it be simpler to have a tire allowance per season retaining Toyos and contingency they offer? Plenty of race classes manage this fairly easily
    It's possible -- have to register barcodes, enforce that people are finishing races with barcodes they registered, etc. Not a bad option either. Also doesn't stop someone from saving the sticker tires for an event late in the season or someone from showing up for 1-2 races and mopping the floor with the field on old tires. Trade-offs...

    My chief counterargument to losing toyo contingency would be that if we only needed 2-3 sets of tires per season, we wouldn't need contingency to offset tire cost.
    Daniel Records
    CMC # 34

  8. #18
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    One of the intents of our rules (as listed in the 2019 rules) is to limit costs, I feel like with stickers at all or at least most events we're missing that part these days.


    Looks like the alternative options will be the Nitto NT01 & the Falken Azenis RT615K+ & the TOYO R888R (one article suggested 12-15heat cycles was the end of 888R's).

    I reached out to the Spec Corvette guys to ask them about their experience running the Azenis tires (Class mandated tire for Spec Vette). They said they're getting 4 race weekends per set, no falloff and are as fast at the end of the 4th weekend as when they start. This was the closest to parity to CMC that I could find, in that its not a miata or other lightweight vehicle, makes decent power, and is running sprint races...

    Aggie doing math -- your mileage may vary:
    We have 7 events this year assuming ECR comes back later, retail cost of new RR's (28 total) for each event is $7336 before you factor in contingencies. Or 73.4% of the street value of my racecar (being optimistic) I went through some 'tire budgeting' math and it gets better, but still not great -- If I ONLY put good tires on for 6 sessions per weekend (2 quals, 4 races) I'm down to a total of 42 heat cycles on 'good tires' or 3.5 sets assuming I pull them off at 12 when they turn to stones. If I skip an event to save cost, I can see doing it in 3 sets at a tire cost of $3144, or 31% of the street value of my racecar. This doesn't factor in friday practice days on old tires that result in setup changes based on bad tires, etc...but you could squeeze it to $3144. Would it be a 'competitive' effort against someone showing up with new tires every event? Probably not, then again maybe you win some contingency and knock that down and buy more tires.
    Daniel Records
    CMC # 34

  9. #19
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby
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    You guys are over complicating it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jQeBbEbztc

  10. #20
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby ShadowBolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drecords View Post
    I don't know the answer to this, I don't know that it's something we can count on...most people who look to get into the sport come at it from a car cost perspective and less on what consumables cost initially. At least that was my experience.

    I'm coming at this from the angle that it's unsustainable to have a $10k race car and spend $6-8k on tires per season to be competitive.

    That being said, I think CMC will be a more attractive landing spot for folks making the step to W2W if we have competitive operating costs. To attract more racers I think we should look to what Spec Corvette is doing w.r.t. social media presence, etc. Different subject for a different thread though...
    You are correct about car prices being why someone may look at CMC to start racing for the first time but it does not take long to figure out that tire cost is the killer. Also I wonder how many racers would consider dropping down to CMC from another class (assuming they needed to cut their cost of racing but still wanted to race wheel to wheel) but they know the tire issue and just drop out of racing all together. I can name several guys that used to run CMC that will not come back due to the tire issue (cost).

    JJ


    JKJ

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