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Thread: More durable/affordable tire option?

  1. #131
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby
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    Below is some information from Terry Fair who started the 200TW class within TT. I was unable to copy the pictures he sent as well but I can email it to anyone.

    Terry,

    Just curious how I could tell who in TT is running in the 200 TW class? Over in CMC land a few experimented with the Falken Azenis 615 with some good success. The people who win the contingencies are against it and make the case that it's pointless if it isn't a Toyo and backed by the home office.
    To be on podium you have to spend $1,250 every event just on Toyo RR's which is much different than when I started. The RR just falls off too quickly.

    Great move doing the 200 TW class and I hope it makes the class grow which I'm curious as we are looking for ways to grow our class and the tire costs I think is a big hurdle.

    Bryan Leinart

    Excellent questions and observations. We have railed against Toyo tires for ages. They seem to buy their way into too many specs/series, but their tires just aren't that good. The performance:wear:cost ratios just seem out of wack. And the Toyo Bucks contingencies for AI/CMC seem pretty stingy...

    It is even less fun paying $1900/set for giant Hoosier A7s that last maybe a day or two of gentle, 1 lap sessions in Time Trial. That's what we were doing from 2012-15 and again in 2018 (we ran an R7 from 2015-17 in two TT-Letter classed cars, which lasted a LOT longer). The "tire wars" got a bit out of hand and late last year I decided to do something about it, at least here.

    Between the SCCA Time Trial (which is 99% 200TW tires) and Optima series events (100% 200TW) we also run, we have been seeing their groups GROW while the Time Trial groups stuck in the Hoosier wars seemed to stagnate. I've talked to dozens of people in Texas who have stepped away from the "purple crack", and the wear vs performance vs cost of the 200TW tires is too hard to ignore.

    With so many competitive options to choose from (Bridgestone, Continental, Hankook, BFG, Falken, Yokohama and more) we are in sort of a golden age of performance "street tires".

    Last weekend we ran Bridgestone RE-71R tires on both Saturday and Sunday in TT3 class. At 3925 lbs with driver on 305mm tires I managed a 1:20.3 best. It was good enough for 2nd in class, only a half second back, and with proper aero we think we can match or beat the Hoosier boys on street tires.

    I ran one session on 315/30/18 Hoosier R7s and was only 1.1 seconds faster at 1:19.2 lap. That would have won the class, of course, but the wear rate is much higher.

    We ran one set of RE-71Rs last season on this car for 9 weekends, competitively, setting our best ever lap on the MCS 1.7 CCW on the 8th weekend. They still have tread left. I ran a set of 315mm A7s and they lasted a day and a half before cording...

    We are all just fighting for trophies, as the tire contingencies are pretty light for everyone. For this season we are offering trophies for 200TW cars for NASA Texas Time Trial, but we hope to continue to grow the idea of using a more sensible tire in other competitions within NASA. We're happy with the growth we have seen already and many former TT competitors have come back, now that their tires can last 5-6 times longer for less cost. You can read more about the 200TW TT series we helped create here. http://www.vorshlag.com/blog/?p=1490
    Bryan Leinart
    CMC #24

  2. #132
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby
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    You guys should contact Louis at Gspeed about these tires he has been running on his WRL corvettes. They are DAMN sticky and DAMN fast and last 8 hours with ease even with the varied driving styles of "rent a vette" racers who constantly brake stuff.

    Don't laugh at the chinese tahrs....they are pretty damn good. I think Louis brought in an entire container of them. Just have to figure out which size to order since most of his are the 265/18. http://nankangusa.com/passenger-tires/ns2r/ These tires make the Azenis 615+, Rival and RE71 seem like hockey pucks and yet they still last fairly well for the weekend. I want to say they were $175/tire but could be wrong.

    EDIT:

    simple tire for 255/17's... $142/ea. https://simpletire.com/nankang-255-4...iABEgI1XfD_BwE
    Last edited by AI#97; 04-02-2019 at 10:29 PM.
    Ah, fugg it.

  3. #133
    Sooooo.... our of curiosity. Where are we at this. Unfortunately I did not get to spend a lot of time chatting with people at Cresson about the situation.

  4. #134
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby marshall_mosty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AI#97 View Post
    You guys should contact Louis at Gspeed about these tires he has been running on his WRL corvettes. They are DAMN sticky and DAMN fast and last 8 hours with ease even with the varied driving styles of "rent a vette" racers who constantly brake stuff.

    Don't laugh at the chinese tahrs....they are pretty damn good. I think Louis brought in an entire container of them. Just have to figure out which size to order since most of his are the 265/18. http://nankangusa.com/passenger-tires/ns2r/ These tires make the Azenis 615+, Rival and RE71 seem like hockey pucks and yet they still last fairly well for the weekend. I want to say they were $175/tire but could be wrong.

    EDIT:

    simple tire for 255/17's... $142/ea. https://simpletire.com/nankang-255-4...iABEgI1XfD_BwE

    Unfortunately the 275/40 is only available in an 18"...
    The closest they have for a 17 is a 255/40...

    http://nankangusa.com/passenger-tires/ns2r/
    Marshall Mosty
    AI/SI Texas Regional Director
    2011 NASA-TX American Iron Champ
    AI #67 "Mosty Brothers' Racing" (RIP)
    ST6 #21 Toyota Corolla (being revived)...

  5. #135
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby
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    It's made in a Chinese factory

    All they have to do is wake Wang up and he'll have a batch made and loaded on a ship by Monday

  6. #136
    Senior Member Rookie
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshall_mosty View Post
    Unfortunately the 275/40 is only available in an 18"...
    The closest they have for a 17 is a 255/40...

    http://nankangusa.com/passenger-tires/ns2r/
    Devils advocate here: Why not go to 255's, they are even less expensive? It has nothing to do with the fact that I have 5 sets of 17x9 wheels.

  7. #137
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby ShadowBolt's Avatar
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    I'm kind of shocked that no one cares about the e-mail Terry sent Bryan. I think Terry has hit the tire issue squarely on the head.


    JJ

  8. #138
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby RichardP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowBolt View Post
    I'm kind of shocked that no one cares about the e-mail Terry sent Bryan. I think Terry has hit the tire issue squarely on the head.


    JJ
    I think a lot of people care and agree with Terry. That's why we are doing the experimental tire thing...


    Richard P.

  9. #139
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby
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    https://www.windingroad.com/articles...eid=4e618c612d

    -There is no substitute for high-grip, new tires. You will get beaten by a driver who can afford to run new tires each race, assuming they follow #1 above.

    -People so often try to set up a car on worn-out tires and fool themselves into thinking they learned something, when in fact they “learned” something that’s wrong. Now instead of just not knowing the answer, they “know” the wrong answer. That’s MUCH worse.

    -Heat cycles affect a tire more if that tire is closer to an out-and-out racing tire. People worry about heat cycles on a tire that’s good for 20,000 miles on the street car...that’s not important. However, on a high-performance race tire that’s good for 150 miles, one heat cycle will cost you a lot of grip.
    Bryan Leinart
    CMC #24

  10. #140
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardP View Post
    I think a lot of people care and agree with Terry. That's why we are doing the experimental tire thing...


    Richard P.
    I would not take everything Terry comes up with as gospel. Remember, nearly all his cars are 2 or 3 lap wonders or for autoX...not great data transfer over to 30-45 minute hard sessions going wheel to wheel in cars without ABS. Keep that in mind and read between his data.....just sayin. Also, most of his customers are riding on $3500-7000 sets of good shocks...um, ya'll aren't. That alone will effect tire data almost as much as driving style.
    Ah, fugg it.

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