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Thread: More durable/affordable tire option?

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by michaelmosty View Post
    I havenít read this whole thread yet, but why are people buying more than 3 sets of tires per season?
    I bought 3 sets last year and 2 sets for Nationals. Year before that was 3 sets. The new set I put on for first race this year at MSRH was almost 3 seconds faster from practice to Q1. I do not know how many heat cycles were on the practice tires but tread was gone.

    I'm fine running a different tire as long as everyone is on the same.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by michaelmosty View Post
    I haven’t read this whole thread yet, but why are people buying more than 3 sets of tires per season?
    Because there are more than 3 race weekends. Empirical data is showing (for some guys at least) the RRs are loosing a significant amount of time and handling characteristics after the first weekend even though they have quite a lot of rubber life left in them, about 4-5 weekends worth of rubber.

    Have you not heard of the RR heat cycling issue before? It's certainly not a new topic of discussion. I wasn't around for the old RA days, having a crappy tire that's crappy for its whole life sounds perfect for this type of racing.

    - Josh
    CMC #50

  3. #43
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby michaelmosty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sook View Post
    Because there are more than 3 race weekends. Empirical data is showing (for some guys at least) the RRs are loosing a significant amount of time and handling characteristics after the first weekend even though they have quite a lot of rubber life left in them, about 4-5 weekends worth of rubber.

    Have you not heard of the RR heat cycling issue before? It's certainly not a new topic of discussion. I wasn't around for the old RA days, having a crappy tire that's crappy for its whole life sounds perfect for this type of racing.

    - Josh
    I am very well aware of the heat cycling out issue. To me, that is just a question all of us have different answers to. How much do you want to spend? I have raced either every event or every event -1 in all my 13 years of racing. I have never used more than 3 sets of tires / season.

    To keep racing as cost effective as possible for me I choose the events I want stickers vs the events I don't have the ability to. I raced MSRH with the same tires I ran Nationals. My plan is to use those tires for inverts at MSRC and then put stickers on for qual and Toyo races. I will then finish MSRC with 4 heat cycles on the stickers and then use them for COTA.

    Do I think I am losing time vs bringing stickers to every event? Absolutely. Is it worth it to me to bring stickers to each event? Absolutely not?
    All of us have different personal preferences for what we are able to spend for racing.
    -Michael Mosty
    CMC2 #11 "Mosty Brothers' Racing"
    2011 TX Region - CMC2 Champion

  4. #44
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby
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    I'm with Michael

    You do not need a set of stickers for every event

    Running stickers for warmups and inverts are a waste

    If you're driving around bad setup, or like to hang it out in turns, etc, you will age out your tires faster

    I run my worst tires on Friday, my 2nd best for warmups and inverts, and my best for quals and toyo races.

    I'm on the 3 set program myself as well

    Still believe the NT01 is a solid choice; I use those for DEs...

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelmosty View Post
    I am very well aware of the heat cycling out issue. To me, that is just a question all of us have different answers to. How much do you want to spend? I have raced either every event or every event -1 in all my 13 years of racing. I have never used more than 3 sets of tires / season.

    To keep racing as cost effective as possible for me I choose the events I want stickers vs the events I don't have the ability to. I raced MSRH with the same tires I ran Nationals. My plan is to use those tires for inverts at MSRC and then put stickers on for qual and Toyo races. I will then finish MSRC with 4 heat cycles on the stickers and then use them for COTA.

    Do I think I am losing time vs bringing stickers to every event? Absolutely. Is it worth it to me to bring stickers to each event? Absolutely not?
    All of us have different personal preferences for what we are able to spend for racing.
    I pretty much do the same thing as Michael. At Houston I was using the tires I used at Nats. I will probably get a new set for Cresson and use those again at Cota, and likely a sticker set at Hallett.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby RichardP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelmosty View Post
    Do I think I am losing time vs bringing stickers to every event? Absolutely. Is it worth it to me to bring stickers to each event? Absolutely not?
    All of us have different personal preferences for what we are able to spend for racing.

    Wouldnít it be cool if didnít have to give up time against your competitors when you donít show up with new tires???

    One of the big goals of the CMC rules is to take money out of the competition equation. For example, with the chassis dyno, it doesnít matter if you spent big money building up a fancy engine or pulled one out of the junk yard. Everyone restricts to the same numbers. Same thing with wheels. Expensive custom wheels are restricted to the same weight as cheap ones. Itís really hard to prevent people from spending money looking for a competitive advantage. The goal of the rules is for there to not be a competitive advantage by doing so. With rules like that, people are less likely to spend the big money and no one really cares if they do.

    With the current tires, thatís not really what we have. If you spend more money on tires, you have a very noticeable competitive advantage over those that donít. Even if you donít win, most people want the belief that they could win if they did a good enough job of driving. The belief that you canít win unless you spend big money on tires tends to erode participation in the series.


    Richard P.

  7. #47
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby michaelmosty's Avatar
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    I agree Richard but this same tire situation is going to be present with any other race group that runs a race tire. It doesn't matter if you are CMC, AI, SM, GTS, etc, whoever shows up with stickers at every event is going to have an advantage.

    Is it because CMC is more of a budget series? Heck, I am on a tight racing budget and couldn't even bring rain tires to Nationals when the forecast called for rain all event.
    I totally understand where everyone is coming from on a budget stand point.
    -Michael Mosty
    CMC2 #11 "Mosty Brothers' Racing"
    2011 TX Region - CMC2 Champion

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelmosty View Post

    Is it because CMC is more of a budget series? Heck, I am on a tight racing budget and couldn't even bring rain tires to Nationals when the forecast called for rain all event.
    I totally understand where everyone is coming from on a budget stand point.
    For sure, I’m willing to bet 2 sets of 615’s will last a season, $1650 vs $3400 for RR’s and more competitive every race weekend. No need for rains just keep your second set of 615’s for rain
    Tyler Gardner
    CMC #13 2015-2017
    SM #013 2018
    www.dfwmustangs.net

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by michaelmosty View Post
    this same tire situation is going to be present with any other race group that runs a race tire.
    A spec tire class doesn't have to run a race tire.

    - Josh
    CMC #50

  10. #50
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby RichardP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelmosty View Post
    Do I think I am losing time vs bringing stickers to every event? Absolutely. Is it worth it to me to bring stickers to each event? Absolutely not?
    All of us have different personal preferences for what we are able to spend for racing.

    Thinking about this more, I have other stuff to add. First, your attitude on the subject is great. It's uncommon in the world and certainly isn't pervasive among "racers". That attitude doesn't exist at Red Shift Racing. We want to kick you ass every time the green flag drops. We just do. Its a significant goal and a great achievement against a worthy competitor when we pull it off. It's not tolerable to us to be uncompetitive just because we didn't pony up for tires. Conversely, beating you because you showed up on dead tires is lame and unsatisfying. We want the accomplishment of beating you (and all the others) when you are at your best. Then we want to drink beer with you afterwords and revel in how we pulled it of, 'cause it doesn't happen as often as we would like.

    So, we don't want to spend the money to buy tires every event. We don't want to force you to buy tires for every event. Mostly, we don't want you to show up with lame tires so that when we kick your ass, it's something to celebrate.

    Seems like if we had tires that sucked equally from stickers to cord, this whole series would be more fun. And way less expensive...


    Richard P.

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