If everyone wants a less grippy product then pick the R1R (200tw) or something in the toyo family. Nasa is not going to separate from Toyo anytime soon nor do I see them allowing a competitor brand slip into a spec tire class.
I concur with Kevin. What did anyone prove other than wasting time and money.
“A man with no enemies is a man with no character.”
― Paul Newman
The Cresson tire test was extremely successful in getting the conversation started. Suggesting an alternative Toyo has not gone over well before - people suddenly seem OK with the idea.Originally Posted by Suck fumes
Can you imagine what kind of backlash there would have been if we had originally suggested R1Rs? I will say that I haven't heard anything, good or bad, about R1Rs. The Youtubes are all the rage about the R888R, but everything I've seen is from track day bros that scored them for free to review (subscriber count is king), never a real competition or TT.
Falken is showing serious support for the 615+ in the competition tire realm, and a lot of people are running them hard without issue. I think running AIX is a good plan to test a tire, I don't see that as a long term solution though. There is also the 200TW TT class that's taking off with the Falkens.
Does anyone know the real reason we couldn't get RRs? Prices went up this year and availability went down. If we're going to run fancy expensive race tires we should at least be able to buy them.
- Josh
CMC #50
After talking it over with a few others after R4, I'll be reaching out to some of you for some data on #of heat cycles at various times and start building a spreadsheet to track RR degradation versus alternative tire degradation with heat cycles.
I agree with the sentiments that it would be I'll advised for us all to show up and run AIX in lieu of CMC on an alternative tire. I will keep running my set of streets in practice days/DE's and keep putting HC's on them.
Last edited by drecords; 03-12-2019 at 06:38 PM.
Daniel Records
CMC # 34
Since AIX will be so popular, all the AI guys are going to participate with 700+hp motors and 315 Hoosier R7s. Hope that's ok...
That would be an interesting change. Last year not a single person signed up for AIX. All it would have taken to win the championship was to take a single green flag at some point during the season. But it didn't happen...
Richard P.
So if the push is for a less grippy tire for expense and wear and tear problems to grow the class.....There is going to come a point where the year model range for cars is going to have to expand. I mean the 2005 mustang is already 14yrs old! Younger new comers looking in are going to have a hell of a time finding a 20-30 yr old camaro or mustang that’s in decent enough shape to even build. Not to mention a 30 yr old car is not a very attractive incentive to want to build for a guy who wasn’t even born when those cars were around. I know that’s kind of off topic but if the reason to change tires is because cars are breaking then maybe there should be a much bigger rule change in the future if you want more growth. The point is to bring new people in not just to bring the older people back. Having both would be ideal but can’t please everyone.
Last edited by Suck fumes; 03-13-2019 at 10:38 AM.
― Paul Newman
For me Aaron the question is if we had a tire that does not fall off with heat cycles (if that is even possible) could we grow the class? If you are not at the pointy end of the field but you want to be as fast as possible every time on track you are forced to purchase a new set of tires every race weekend. If you are not getting any (or very little) Toyo money it may make you stop racing or never start. I know when I started 10 years ago not a single CMC racer was buying tires for every race. In fact for some reason they believed the tires (RA-1's) were their fastest just prior to cording. I was shocked how much more road racing (even at this low level) cost me than I thought it would. Then the 888 debacle then the RR comes along and several of the fastest guys were showing up with stickers for every event. Most of us (if not all of us) can afford to buy a new set for every event. The question is how much could we grow the class if we could cut the cost of tires? I do not know that answer. Maybe it would make no difference. The fast guys will still be the fast guys and us mid pack slackers will still be where we always are just maybe at half the tire cost.
JJ
Michael-To borrow from another post your tire test didn't prove anything other than 10-15 HC RR's being slower (lol). Good info. But I would add to that your ability to tune a car around a tire that is falling off is impressive. I believe you would have a 23 if you had been on stickers. And again you are having handling issues on heat cycles that would be for your second event - a full weekend of racing is 8 sessions and you were on your 15th and won't see the track again. I don't buy that you aren't good at Cresson either as last year in the toyo races you had a 1st and 3rd.
The interest is in a tire that will cut tire budgets from $6-7k to under $2k for a season. That benefits most of the people who make most events and would increase car count for people who have cars sitting at home and potentially have people buy cars that are sitting.
The age of our cars is and isn't valid as Spec Miata is for 1990-2005. Spec E46 is a relatively new class for 2001-2006 cars so the newest available chassis is 13 years old. Some think it's growing like crazy but the costs of that class have gotten out of hand in my opinion so we will see if the class does the same as Spec Iron. I don't see a way to bring the newer cars into our class as that was already tried.
MP-where all these AIX cars that would populate the class? If so then wouldn't a popular class be a good problem? If 30 AIX lite cars were gridded at Nationals with the 2-3 AIX cars with 700 hp I don't think it would have mattered.
Of course one could stay in CMC with a different tire and "fun run".
I do understand those who most often win the contingencies (Jander, Mosty, Curtis, McSpadden) not wanting a change. Let's keep the discussion going and the information coming and Records point us to the thread you want everything moved to since you are gathering the data.
Bryan Leinart
CMC #24
We tried that years ago and decided the S197 had to run on 225mm tires and everyone bailed. I don't get why people think our cars are too old when we have Spec E30 and Spec Miata that thrive and all the hipsters seem to love those cars.
RM CMC Director
Are you channeling some MFW today?
<---has 315 hoosiers, 17x11's and an uncorkable camaro to play with in AIX to win LOTS of free Hoosiers if there are 5+ cars!
Last edited by AI#97; 03-14-2019 at 11:07 AM.
Ah, fugg it.
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