Some tire information from one of the Spec Corvette drivers:Originally Posted by BryanL
"Capable of winning" is maybe not the same as "no drop off in performance" depending on the competitiveness of the class but this is still good information. He has raced a bunch in classes other than Spec Corvette so he knows the tires heat cycling out game well...
Richard P.
Why would any Club racer want to put up with the heat cycling issue if you can do what these Vette guys are doing for 1/4th the money?
JJ
Interesting read. I too am of the camp that there is no significant advantage or disadvantage of a cmc car to SM, e30, e46 etc as far as age of cars and impact on parts. All ears on anything that can be done rules wise to make repairs less expensive or less frequent. Case in point recently opening up ignition components since they are now cheaper than OE.
I fully agree that it’d be wonderful to spend less money on tires. I am encouraged to see the nasa survey, maybe some good will come out of it. Changing tires is not something cmc can do as a class (directors changing the rules) but I see nothing wrong in upping the pressure to nasa national to get them to act.
Thin to win was real, I was there. I was also a trophy girl, set the tws lap record my first weekend there. Now I’m a mid pack slacker at best. Soooo...everyone else has gotten much much faster which means thin to win wasn’t actually fast.
Al Fernandez
Age of the cars, other than crap quality replacement parts, is not an issue. Finding "knuckle draggers" who like to play with 20-30 year old mustangs and camaros on road courses instead of $10k c5 corvettes or M3 BMW's is the issue. Toss in the success of competing series like WRL where the racing is still cheap and fun and many of those racers are just no longer here in NASA. Go to a WRL weekend and there are 200 to 400 drivers beating on cheaper old cars for 8 hours each day and the cheapest seats for about 2 hours of seat time per day START at $1500 plus travel and lodging. The money is out there, the list of "goobers" to run these cars is getting shorter every DAY.
That being said, you need to look at those competing series to see what is making them successful and it is the fact they are finding ways to make racing cheaper. They are using 180-200 TW street tires that last multiple 8 hour races or are encouraging lower HP to keep fuel and brake costs down. SMART. Maybe CMC could set some goals to ATTEMPT to lower costs over the next couple years to make it attractive again? That goes a long way. Heck, get radical and allow ONLY RA1's again. Lose the RR entirely. Those of you who have rains could still use them and you just buy a new set of shaved RA1's to go a couple weekends. Then start rotating in sets as you use them up with a goal in year 3 to switch to NT01. Hell, allow the NT01 as an intermediate rain or dry tire... at the least, try something so there is a perception that NASA is doing SOMETHING to increase car counts instead of relying on the racers to bring in new racers. Personally, having raced and worked with just about every OTHER series in NASA, CMC is the ONLY series where the racers are the ones left to building and growing the series these days. The directors and NASA are leaving it to die on the vine....or at least that is the current perception.
We own Glenns old car and have been running it in WRL with decent success due to it being a quality build....but those cars from other classes are easily outrunning it on track with less power and smaller tires. Where do you think new racers are going to gravitate to? Gonna have to make CMC sexxy or cheap to bring folks in/back.
Ah, fugg it.
I think Craig hit the nail on the head when he said that to grow the class we have to advertise better and make an effort to field a group of cars that looks attractive. Also, we are not a race class that people typically use as a stepping stone to a 'pro' ride and I think SM benefits hugely from that as well as the ability to race both nasa and SCCA.
That being said, we have a good core group of 'regulars' in Texas and need to work hard not to lose that. I like racing with this group because it's hard, very competitive, and normally pretty clean.
So the question should be: how can we attract people to CMC when they're looking at building/buying a racecar for another class? What do we sell them?
Daniel Records
CMC # 34
Six sets of RR's per year............that's what Nasa is trying to sell them.
Bryan Leinart
CMC #24
#1? Bring back ABS. Easy for 4th gens and SN95's and the fox guys are likely already running the SN95 parts so not a huge deal. Save those expensive tires and maybe end some of the contact from lockups?
#2 Allow LT1 aftermarket ignition setups. There are 3 or 4 now. Pick two, test and move forward so those older cars remain relevant without spending cubic dollars to swap to LS.
#3 Go BACK to RA1's or consider the R888r. Do something to get rid of the POS RR.
#4 Tire renegades. regionally, allow CMC racers to run NT01's if they choose, you collect points, just not Toyo bucks. RR's are supposed to be faster so this should not be a big deal right? Rookies can run Hoosiers if they want?.....maybe don't go that far?
#5 Bring back Manties....
#6 Do you test bro? Time to setup actual group testing days with the trophy girls mentoring the rooks and mid/back pack drivers. Plenty of off weekend events to make this happen.
#7 Passenger seats...load up and set the hook in new goobers at the HPDE's. Currently that is happening in Porsches, Vettes and BMW's...ya'll are nowhere to be seen. Fix that.
#8 Earn Will's attention and get him focused on growing the AI/CMC group. Make sure he understands the cars, rules and the group's needs/goals. Currently he hangs with SM and ST.
#9 Socialize with the rest of the NASATX racers as a group more. I know you guys love to BBQ together but you MUST get to know the rest of the racers and turn them into advocates for AI/CMC when you aren't around. From the outside looking in, AI/CMC can seem a bit "anti-social" to the larger NASATX event weekend. Sorry, harsh truth. Plenty of other cool people to hang with at the event and as race groups consolidate...good to get to know those folks you may be racing with soon!
#10 Ya'll need a list of available cars for sale and shops that build them for potential racers who may be interested in AI/CMC. This needs to be backed up with semi-known build costs and such to answer their questions. As a comparison, there are no less than 10 shops in Texas that build BMW racecars for NASATX events...who builds AI/CMC cars...? Have to have those answers because today's racers are NOT building cars in their garages anymore.
That's a good start....
Edit to add #11
#11...race your cars with other organizations like WRL so people know these cars are still racing!!!! We get tons of compliments on the camaro when we go to a WRL event and make V8 noises. Also more opportunity to use your cars and get seat time and set the hook for new drivers and even old ones!!!
Last edited by AI#97; 05-30-2019 at 09:58 PM.
Ah, fugg it.
There are other groups at NASA events besides AI/CMC? Who knew?
JJ
From my perspective as a NASA TX 'official' i'm going to add a few comments to Matt's points.
#8 - i remember a weekend when a bunch of Mustangs showed up at one of our events, invited by Todd Who, who by the way did not show up. I came to Thunder and asked for volunteers to ride with these guys. You would have thought I asked you to cut off one of your nuts. In the end, a few guys agreed to help - I clearly remember David Francis stepping up, which was greatly appreciated. Not a way to win friends.
#9 - I made a point of asking the Thunder group to come to one of the Saturday night BBQs that Will sponsors. 'not enough food, small portions, blah blah blah.' but did anyone go talk to Will and explain this? I don't know.
These are just two examples of what Matt calls "harsh truth."
And now, as as former member of the CMC Rules Committee, my two cents about tires. Leave the Toyo stickers on your cars, but run whatever tire you can all agree on. As Matt says, you won't get contingency $$, but if you hate the tire, why do you want the contingency bucks? Besides, the whole tire contingency essentially goes against the CMC vibe, which is low cost, evenly built cars, put it on the driver. During one of my years in RM, I was 1st or 2nd in every race. At the end of the season, I had collected something like 80% of all the Toyo bucks. this was back in the days of the RA-1, which means I only needed two sets of tires for the entire season. I gave away most of the bucks to other drivers. My point is that the Toyo contingency does almost nothing for the vast majority of CMC drivers, so why not dump it?
-chris
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