Diff Cover Drain

[michaelmosty]

Pranav-did someone hack your accoutn? You sound exactly like all the GM guys did 8 years ago when the Fords were complaining but none of them did any testing and they all ran the same spring setup. What's cool is now the Fords did what the GM guys did a long time ago. Now you have say 3 Fords at a given event running the fastest lap times which are basically the same lap times but what's so interesting is that those three normally have all totally different suspension setups, spring rates, etc.
Remember just because it's a coilover doesn't mean it's 10 times better than a traditional shock and spring. Same goes for the torque arm which is so weak and flexes. Sure you have aftermarket setups for Fords that put in a torque arm and aftermarket setups on F body's that add a 4 link type of setup.

I'm not complaining or submitting RCR's. I just enjoy sharing the same data that was used way back when to give the Fords an advantage only now the data is totally reversed.

I also enjoy showing how ridiculous some things are like not being able to run an aluminum diff cover for $150 that gives more strength, fluid capacity, and cooling but I can swap in a Ford 9", GM 12 bolt, or Dana...yet I can't swap in the Mustang 8.8.

Pranav-to answer your questions everyone knows between you and Dan the 4th Gen gets more time time testing away from NASA events and on Friday's. I probably do more than the Summer Shootout Winner but not sure why any of that matters.

I know this is all in good fun but you really need to get your facts in line. 8 years ago Jeremiah and I both had cars prepped to the Max of the rules and were testing our brains out trying to get the leg up on the other. What you are thinking of is 12 years ago when we were all brand new to this and virtually none of the Mustangs did true testing and analysis. The rules changes took place after the 2012 season to change the weights of the platforms and get the track widths closer to being equal.

My car has been setup well for a long time now so my lack of Friday practice is a non-issue.
Also, think about getting the most out of your car when you are racing and have 60% of your focus on hitting all your marks, 20% of focus on your car and any potential issues, and 20% focus on everyone else on track. Car prep and mental prep is vital to getting the most out of your performance.
Now flip that focus to 90% hitting your marks, 5% on your car, and 5% on other drivers on track and tell me who you think is going to be faster.
No offense to Marshall but it is the reason he was running slower in his car at the end of his racing career vs 5 years prior. He was spending so much mental energy focusing on a car that had constant problems, that the driving performance suffered.

[Fbody383]

One of these days we'll keep threads clean.

Isn't it about time for a nation-wide CMC convention to re-think what CMC needs to be going forward? It's completely against the ideals of the old 230hp rules to allow $$$$$ brakes, but not $ diff cover.

Now flip that focus to 90% hitting your marks, 5% on your car, and 5% on other drivers on track and tell me who you think is going to be faster.

I put myself into this camp - my 9.9 effort is equivalent to a 9.0 effort by a trophy queen. I just don't have any processing room left at this point. Some is probably set-up, some is very likely lack of seat time. I think the rules are close though personally I still vacillate between close and not close enough.

All I'm saying is I'm just not seeing the "Max Effort" push by the 4th gen drivers that I see the Mustang drivers doing right now, or guys are putting in the Max effort but have incidents/failures that hold them back.

You can say that about me and it doesn't bother me. I struggle whether I should make the investment in the time/cost balance to move up the field a couple of places. OR... keep having a great time with some great folks with a little racing thrown in for good measure.

[BryanL]

I know this is all in good fun but you really need to get your facts in line. 8 years ago Jeremiah and I both had cars prepped to the Max of the rules and were testing our brains out trying to get the leg up on the other. What you are thinking of is 12 years ago when we were all brand new to this and virtually none of the Mustangs did true testing and analysis. The rules changes took place after the 2012 season to change the weights of the platforms and get the track widths closer to being equal.

My car has been setup well for a long time now so my lack of Friday practice is a non-issue.
Also, think about getting the most out of your car when you are racing and have 60% of your focus on hitting all your marks, 20% of focus on your car and any potential issues, and 20% focus on everyone else on track. Car prep and mental prep is vital to getting the most out of your performance.
Now flip that focus to 90% hitting your marks, 5% on your car, and 5% on other drivers on track and tell me who you think is going to be faster.
No offense to Marshall but it is the reason he was running slower in his car at the end of his racing career vs 5 years prior. He was spending so much mental energy focusing on a car that had constant problems, that the driving performance suffered.

Extremely good points in the second paragraph. But I really like this quote from the 39 that sums it up pretty good for me. "You can say that about me and it doesn't bother me. I struggle whether I should make the investment in the time/cost balance to move up the field a couple of places. OR... keep having a great time with some great folks with a little racing thrown in for good measure."

Mosty-I wasn't around 12 years ago as I was still in high school. But yes I'm having fun sharing the same type of data that was used in the past. Sounds like it was 6-8 years ago with what we are talking about when the threads were all about parity. After 2012 the directors took away track width from the 4th gens I think and they specifically threw a bone to the Fords reducing weight by 50 lbs. Of course they used data from you and Procter from one race as well. What has changed on your car since 2012? More power?, Stoptechs?, AST's? etc? Want to test drive my car for a day at Cresson before Nats?

[michaelmosty]

Extremely good points in the second paragraph. But I really like this quote from the 39 that sums it up pretty good for me. "You can say that about me and it doesn't bother me. I struggle whether I should make the investment in the time/cost balance to move up the field a couple of places. OR... keep having a great time with some great folks with a little racing thrown in for good measure."

Mosty-I wasn't around 12 years ago as I was still in high school. But yes I'm having fun sharing the same type of data that was used in the past. Sounds like it was 6-8 years ago with what we are talking about when the threads were all about parity. After 2012 the directors took away track width from the 4th gens I think and they specifically threw a bone to the Fords reducing weight by 50 lbs. Of course they used data from you and Procter from one race as well. What has changed on your car since 2012? More power?, Stoptechs?, AST's? etc? Want to test drive my car for a day at Cresson before Nats?

Nothing has changed since 2012. Still the same power / motor setup. I put the AST's on in 2009 and the Stoptechs on in 2010.

How about we swap cars for a couple sessions at NOLA?

[Storm Trooper]

6.29 Rear axles
6.29.1 Any OEM stock differential housing that was originally offered in an eligible model car is allowed. Updating/Backdating of OEM stock differential housings is allowed.
6.29.2 Both GM and Ford cars may also use a Ford 9”, GM 12 bolt, or Dana 44 rear axle housing, but the housing must maintain both the exact OEM suspension pickup points and OEM rear end geometry as the originally equipped axle assembly.
6.29.3 Any gear ratio equal to or numerically lower than 4.11 that fits the stock/alternate differential case without modification may be used. Differentials may be fully locked (welded) or use any commercially available mechanical limited slip.
6.29.4 Any commercially available replacement type steel or alloy steel axles may be used. Full floater axles are prohibited. Heavy-duty non-”C" Clip style axle ends are allowed and recommended. Competitors should carefully select axle ends. Many of the "C" clip eliminator axle ends are designed for street or drag strip use only and cannot withstand the side loads associated with road racing.
6.29.5 Differentials or differential covers may have a drain plug added.

Can some one explain to my why a aluminum diff. cover in against the rules??

[RichardP]

Can some one explain to my why a aluminum diff. cover in against the rules??

Standard answer. It's not needed. If was made legal, lots of people would think they needed one and lots of money would be wasted. The coolest thing about an aluminum cover is the availability of a drain. As a compromise, they allowed a drain be added to the stock cover.

Richard P.

[Storm Trooper]

Standard answer. It's not needed. If was made legal, lots of people would think they needed one and lots of money would be wasted. The coolest thing about an aluminum cover is the availability of a drain. As a compromise, they allowed a drain be added to the stock cover.

Richard P.

(The coolest thing about an aluminum cover is the availability of a drain.) not to mention increasing the capacity of the oil, cooling the oil, supporting the bearing caps.

Big brakes were not needed, 260 hp was not needed! But people wanted them so.....the rules are telling us where not to waste our money?

[RichardP]

not to mention increasing the capacity of the oil, cooling the oil, supporting the bearing caps.

Again, all that crap is overkill and a waste of money (on a 230 hp car with shit tires). At the current state of things, does this need to be revisited? Probably.

Big brakes were not needed, 260 hp was not needed! But people wanted them so.....the rules are telling us where not to waste our money?

NASA, not the CMC management, mandated the S197 Mustang and the LS Camaro. Neither one of them could realistically get to the 230 hp number. Once you've gone there, along with wider and stickier rubber, big brakes actually save money over the old crap that had to be replaced often if you do enough events. Do I like where the whole thing has gotten to? No, and I don't believe many people do. If crap tires were mandated way back when, we wouldn't have needed big brakes and we wouldn't be hurting transmissions, rear ends, etc. at the rate that we are. We are literally tearing the tubs apart on these ancient cars. And we are spending a lot of money doing it. The whole thing doesn't make much sense...


Richard P.

[marshall_mosty]

No offense to Marshall but it is the reason he was running slower in his car at the end of his racing career vs 5 years prior. He was spending so much mental energy focusing on a car that had constant problems, that the driving performance suffered.

No offense taken, but it is 100% accurate.. I had no clue if the next shift would break a transmission, diff, shell a lifter, break a crank, or some other ungodly evil that would put my car on the side of the track...

[drecords]

No offense taken, but it is 100% accurate.. I had no clue if the next shift would break a transmission, diff, shell a lifter, break a crank, or some other ungodly evil that would put my car on the side of the track...

I completely understand this sentiment. It's one of the biggest things mentally I've had to get over transitioning to this series. In my endurance days it was all about finishing the stint to hand the car back off to the next guy to stay in the race... No risks, no dumb decisions, no risky moves.

One of the best things I've done to my car is not put another $4k machine shop built engine back in it. Mentally it's been great knowing that if I pop the explorer engine I'm out way less money. So I'll hit the limiter occasionally trying to make a pass, etc. Never did that on the old one and it blew up fantastically for my trouble... currently considering picking another one up from the junkyard and having it ready to go in the trailer....