More durable/affordable tire option?

[Al Fernandez]

According to Falken they are molded to 8/32nds, the same as the RA1s. Back when we ran them, all the fast guys shaved them. I'm not sure its realistic to police tread depth, but certainly open to suggestions.

[drecords]

Mine are mounted and full tread depth. Will be running them Friday all day on my car to see if I can do something to hurt them. I'm on the fence about running TT, it gets more heat cycles quicker but with Josh doing the test last weekend and me running them in practice Friday idk what additional data we want to gather from TT sessions on them. If somebody thinks we can get data from me in TT I'm happy to add it at the track.

[RichardP]

According to Falken they are molded to 8/32nds, the same as the RA1s. Back when we ran them, all the fast guys shaved them. I'm not sure its realistic to police tread depth, but certainly open to suggestions.

Well, we wouldn't be policing tread depth. The whole point of this exercise is to find a tire that we can run down to no tread while still being competitive. We would be trying to police shaving. A shaved tire has a very distinctive surface. That surface goes away with track use but it takes a bit to completely go away. That use would have to happen at an event away from a race event. I think a burnout could get rid of about 80% of the shaving marks but wouldn't get them all.

So, it's not that a shaving rule couldn't be cheated. It would just be a big hassle. I think anyone going to that much trouble to cheat is already cheating in ways that aren't going to be found by the level of tech that we are currently doing...


Richard P.

[39PitCrew]

Well, we wouldn't be policing tread depth. The whole point of this exercise is to find a tire that we can run down to no tread while still being competitive. We would be trying to police shaving. A shaved tire has a very distinctive surface. That surface goes away with track use but it takes a bit to completely go away. That use would have to happen at an event away from a race event. I think a burnout could get rid of about 80% of the shaving marks but wouldn't get them all.

So, it's not that a shaving rule couldn't be cheated. It would just be a big hassle. I think anyone going to that much trouble to cheat is already cheating in ways that aren't going to be found by the level of tech that we are currently doing...


Richard P.

And really, if the tire testing finds a tire that is decently competitive from stickers to cords, tread depth and shaving become much less interesting.
Or at least incentive to shave a tire and the work to hide it if it's not legal to do so drops quite a bit.

[AI#97]

And really, if the tire testing finds a tire that is decently competitive from stickers to cords, tread depth and shaving become much less interesting.
Or at least incentive to shave a tire and the work to hide it if it's not legal to do so drops quite a bit.

NT01...have many that are date coded 2011 and still plan on using them till cords show. Been trying to kill them for several years.

[mach1]

I learned a bunch in SM at Cresson, 15hc toyos were also as fast as stickers this past event for me.
I am going to Hallett in 2 weeks with SCCA, the Hoosiers are only supposed to be good for 4-5hc.

The SM guys were saying toyos are fast up to 15-20 at msrc and Hallett but you have to sticker up at COTA

[BryanL]

Below is some information from Terry Fair who started the 200TW class within TT. I was unable to copy the pictures he sent as well but I can email it to anyone.

Terry,

Just curious how I could tell who in TT is running in the 200 TW class? Over in CMC land a few experimented with the Falken Azenis 615 with some good success. The people who win the contingencies are against it and make the case that it's pointless if it isn't a Toyo and backed by the home office.
To be on podium you have to spend $1,250 every event just on Toyo RR's which is much different than when I started. The RR just falls off too quickly.

Great move doing the 200 TW class and I hope it makes the class grow which I'm curious as we are looking for ways to grow our class and the tire costs I think is a big hurdle.

Bryan Leinart

Excellent questions and observations. We have railed against Toyo tires for ages. They seem to buy their way into too many specs/series, but their tires just aren't that good. The performance:wear:cost ratios just seem out of wack. And the Toyo Bucks contingencies for AI/CMC seem pretty stingy...

It is even less fun paying $1900/set for giant Hoosier A7s that last maybe a day or two of gentle, 1 lap sessions in Time Trial. That's what we were doing from 2012-15 and again in 2018 (we ran an R7 from 2015-17 in two TT-Letter classed cars, which lasted a LOT longer). The "tire wars" got a bit out of hand and late last year I decided to do something about it, at least here.

Between the SCCA Time Trial (which is 99% 200TW tires) and Optima series events (100% 200TW) we also run, we have been seeing their groups GROW while the Time Trial groups stuck in the Hoosier wars seemed to stagnate. I've talked to dozens of people in Texas who have stepped away from the "purple crack", and the wear vs performance vs cost of the 200TW tires is too hard to ignore.

With so many competitive options to choose from (Bridgestone, Continental, Hankook, BFG, Falken, Yokohama and more) we are in sort of a golden age of performance "street tires".

Last weekend we ran Bridgestone RE-71R tires on both Saturday and Sunday in TT3 class. At 3925 lbs with driver on 305mm tires I managed a 1:20.3 best. It was good enough for 2nd in class, only a half second back, and with proper aero we think we can match or beat the Hoosier boys on street tires.

I ran one session on 315/30/18 Hoosier R7s and was only 1.1 seconds faster at 1:19.2 lap. That would have won the class, of course, but the wear rate is much higher.

We ran one set of RE-71Rs last season on this car for 9 weekends, competitively, setting our best ever lap on the MCS 1.7 CCW on the 8th weekend. They still have tread left. I ran a set of 315mm A7s and they lasted a day and a half before cording...

We are all just fighting for trophies, as the tire contingencies are pretty light for everyone. For this season we are offering trophies for 200TW cars for NASA Texas Time Trial, but we hope to continue to grow the idea of using a more sensible tire in other competitions within NASA. We're happy with the growth we have seen already and many former TT competitors have come back, now that their tires can last 5-6 times longer for less cost. You can read more about the 200TW TT series we helped create here. http://www.vorshlag.com/blog/?p=1490

[AI#97]

You guys should contact Louis at Gspeed about these tires he has been running on his WRL corvettes. They are DAMN sticky and DAMN fast and last 8 hours with ease even with the varied driving styles of "rent a vette" racers who constantly brake stuff.

Don't laugh at the chinese tahrs....they are pretty damn good. I think Louis brought in an entire container of them. Just have to figure out which size to order since most of his are the 265/18. http://nankangusa.com/passenger-tires/ns2r/ These tires make the Azenis 615+, Rival and RE71 seem like hockey pucks and yet they still last fairly well for the weekend. I want to say they were $175/tire but could be wrong.

EDIT:

simple tire for 255/17's... $142/ea. https://simpletire.com/nankang-255-4...iABEgI1XfD_BwE