Future of CMC: A wish list

[BryanL]

What class did spec vette run in? Curious what their lap times were and if anyone talked to them about their tires or how they held up at Cota? Were any races longer did they fall off during the race?

Already tried to bring in the S197's and lots of testing was done but the gap is too wide. There was a time when I thought everyone was going spec iron but that seems to have fizzled for Nasa and SCCA. I have looked at talked about ASedan racers as their limited prep is close to CMC or used to be until they allowed Spec Mustang and now can run an ASA cam/tuning for 385 rwhp (not the direction I want to go). Too bad if it could be an option like Miata's doing both nasa/scca. I think that is a huge lure for those cars since the classes are strong in both and you can run more events at the same tracks. But maybe an option to get some Asedan guys to come run with us?
Jander-you are real interested in bringing new racers over and good with Will. What about doing some incentive program to give an SCCA ASedan racer half off entry to first NASA event?

Losing TWS hurt not just from having two events there a year but people doing other events, DE, etc. there helped NASA in my opinion. Getting ECR online and I'm thinking with the prep they are doing it should be a pretty good track.

Personally I lack interest in COTA at $1,200 and TMS for whatever it is in August. If I'm racing in August it will be in RM.

Records is right about not hitting the panic button. I know of a couple other CMC cars that should be for sale this summer that haven't been raced for years could help. A better schedule next year would help too.

The CMC ruleset not changing much for several years is huge as well. I am in favor of doing things that don't give advantages but provide better durability/dependability like allowing an option to replace the opti on LT1's.

But the biggest thing that we could help change or decide to change on our own is the tire issue. Find a tire as quick as the Falken that doesn't drop off for 3 events for under $1k for a set and the class improves no doubt in my mind. Only seems to be a few who argue that tires don't hurt our participation but it's not just showing up. It also hurts because a guy on an older set of tires knows he is going to be a second to seconds slower only due to tires and if on old tires you are going to have to work on setup changes that screw your car up when you put on new tires.

I think it would especially help new people looking at the series or who have just joined to be able to do more practice/DE days on the same tires we race on but not have to spend an extra few thousand that year to help get up to speed.

[RichardP]

What class did spec vette run in?

There were 9 Spec Vettes and they ran in ST2. The regular ST2 cars gridded with the other ST classes while the Spec Vettes had their own green at the back of the pack. Times are at http://timingscoring.drivenasa.com although it's a little hard to tell because not even all the Corvettes in ST2 are Spec Corvettes. The best time I saw was 3 seconds faster than the CMC pole. The racing looked really good and close on track but the best lap times don't really support that it was that close...

On the Spec Corvette facebook they are claiming they are getting 5-6 events out of a set of tires. Based on what I've seen in tire wear, that's completely believable. Are thy going that long without a degradation in lap times? No clue.


Richard P.

[RichardP]

Records is right about not hitting the panic button. I know of a couple other CMC cars that should be for sale this summer that haven't been raced for years could help.

I don't think there is any reason to panic. There are still lots of CMC cars in region. They just aren't coming out to race regularly. This is much different than California where all of the CMC cars have been sold off.


Richard P.

[ShadowBolt]

I don't think there is any reason to panic. There are still lots of CMC cars in region. They just aren't coming out to race regularly. This is much different than California where all of the CMC cars have been sold off.


Richard P.

The difference to me in today and back when we had the old RA1 (taller and narrower) is COST. We ran six events per year all in or between DFW and Houston (other than Hallett). Two races were at TWS in the perfect location. Four hours from DFW, two hours from the Austin area and around an hour for the Houston guys. Cost was low for travel and for tires. I have no idea if it was true but the fastest guys claim to run on "thin to wins". Maybe that was all BS? But there was no NOLA or TMS or COTA on the schedule. Other than cost why are so many with cars staying home?

JJ

[Pranav]

I think it's universally agreed that we have to do something about the tires to really let this class continue to sustain and grow, and to a certain extent our region does not have enough in-state events to be fun. It's shitty that NOLA takes place of a second MSRH or MSRC.

I like running at COTA but not at $1199; my expectation is that the price drops next year or it gets off the calendar for something else that would get more attendance.

Us houston folk have it the hardest in that everything outside of one MSRH is a haul with exception to NOLA that no one wants to go t

Not sure what to think about TMS but again watching our breakage rates, I am worried for some of you guys running TMS at full tilt and am now myself on the fence about that event for safety concerns.

I guess I'm not sure where I was going with this thread, but it's frustrating to watch a starting pack of 6 cars whittle itself down to 2 in a 3 race weekend and I'm just watching everyone break random stuff like I used to when I first started in my early years, before I went nuclear on my car; after I get my floor professionally welded and do the fuel cell this summer its going to be really solid.

My suggestion about the newer cars was just giving us a long term clean sheet option but as was said earlier we failed with spec iron; what killed that class? Shocks or not enough cost limits?

[Pranav]

Don't let my comments about the s197/cmc2 fool anyone; after I pickup the red roller Glenn caged a long time ago, I have almost enough spares to build a second CMC car. Pretty committed to the class and the 4th gen LS, but just frustrated when I barely have anyone to race against sometimes due to mechanical attrition or a lack of interest in the event.

I guess this is a combo Toyo tires and NASA Texas venue choice/price issue.

[RichardP]

What class did spec vette run in? Curious what their lap times were and if anyone talked to them about their tires or how they held up at Cota? Were any races longer did they fall off during the race?

Some tire information from one of the Spec Corvette drivers:

No, they are running a 200 tread wear street tire from Falken, the 615K+. We slip and slide a lot on those tires, but that adds to the fun. Spec Corvette racers, like many of the other products we use, get the tires for nearly 50% discount. The best part is that they don't heat cycle out. I won the third race on Sunday on tires I drove on for three 30 minute sessions and one 20 minute session at COTA on Friday, I then qualified three times and did three 30 minute races over Saturday on Sunday with the same tires... wait a minute, that is not the best part. The best part is that I did four races on those same tires over a month earlier at CVR and then another Saturday of racing on them in Spec Corvette at WSIR. I have at least one more weekend on those tires and they are still capable of winning. Last year I drove to WSIR, raced and drove home in my Spec Corvette. Another weekend I raced NASA ST2 in the rain, won, drove the car to the awards ceremony at a restaurant offsite and then back to my motorhome at the track.

"Capable of winning" is maybe not the same as "no drop off in performance" depending on the competitiveness of the class but this is still good information. He has raced a bunch in classes other than Spec Corvette so he knows the tires heat cycling out game well...


Richard P.

[ShadowBolt]

Some tire information from one of the Spec Corvette drivers:




"Capable of winning" is maybe not the same as "no drop off in performance" depending on the competitiveness of the class but this is still good information. He has raced a bunch in classes other than Spec Corvette so he knows the tires heat cycling out game well...


Richard P.

Why would any Club racer want to put up with the heat cycling issue if you can do what these Vette guys are doing for 1/4th the money?

JJ

[Al Fernandez]

Interesting read. I too am of the camp that there is no significant advantage or disadvantage of a cmc car to SM, e30, e46 etc as far as age of cars and impact on parts. All ears on anything that can be done rules wise to make repairs less expensive or less frequent. Case in point recently opening up ignition components since they are now cheaper than OE.

I fully agree that it’d be wonderful to spend less money on tires. I am encouraged to see the nasa survey, maybe some good will come out of it. Changing tires is not something cmc can do as a class (directors changing the rules) but I see nothing wrong in upping the pressure to nasa national to get them to act.

Thin to win was real, I was there. I was also a trophy girl, set the tws lap record my first weekend there. Now I’m a mid pack slacker at best. Soooo...everyone else has gotten much much faster which means thin to win wasn’t actually fast.

[AI#97]

Age of the cars, other than crap quality replacement parts, is not an issue. Finding "knuckle draggers" who like to play with 20-30 year old mustangs and camaros on road courses instead of $10k c5 corvettes or M3 BMW's is the issue. Toss in the success of competing series like WRL where the racing is still cheap and fun and many of those racers are just no longer here in NASA. Go to a WRL weekend and there are 200 to 400 drivers beating on cheaper old cars for 8 hours each day and the cheapest seats for about 2 hours of seat time per day START at $1500 plus travel and lodging. The money is out there, the list of "goobers" to run these cars is getting shorter every DAY.

That being said, you need to look at those competing series to see what is making them successful and it is the fact they are finding ways to make racing cheaper. They are using 180-200 TW street tires that last multiple 8 hour races or are encouraging lower HP to keep fuel and brake costs down. SMART. Maybe CMC could set some goals to ATTEMPT to lower costs over the next couple years to make it attractive again? That goes a long way. Heck, get radical and allow ONLY RA1's again. Lose the RR entirely. Those of you who have rains could still use them and you just buy a new set of shaved RA1's to go a couple weekends. Then start rotating in sets as you use them up with a goal in year 3 to switch to NT01. Hell, allow the NT01 as an intermediate rain or dry tire... at the least, try something so there is a perception that NASA is doing SOMETHING to increase car counts instead of relying on the racers to bring in new racers. Personally, having raced and worked with just about every OTHER series in NASA, CMC is the ONLY series where the racers are the ones left to building and growing the series these days. The directors and NASA are leaving it to die on the vine....or at least that is the current perception.

We own Glenns old car and have been running it in WRL with decent success due to it being a quality build....but those cars from other classes are easily outrunning it on track with less power and smaller tires. Where do you think new racers are going to gravitate to? Gonna have to make CMC sexxy or cheap to bring folks in/back.