New ai/cmc tire thread

[ShadowBolt]

I burn a new set of RRs in a weekend. 5 or 6 heat cycles max, after that, they aren't competitive. Usable for practice for heat cycles 7-10.

So what is the real deal? Gone after 5 or 6 heat cycles or still competitive at 20 heat cycles? It can't be both.


JJ

[Sook]

So what is the real deal? Gone after 5 or 6 heat cycles or still competitive at 20 heat cycles? It can't be both.


JJ

It probably depends on the load the tire sees. Mike's car with full aero likely puts significantly more load on the tires than a CMC car. A few degree temperature increase due to higher load per heat cycle might make them drop off much more dramatically, just a hypothesis. So when comparing across platforms it could be both. Tyler is seeing potential better life on the Miata.

I'm assuming the tires are 'curing' with heat cycles, (i.e. getting harder, would last longer rubberwise but have less grip). Does the length of the heat cycle matter? If you over cook a set by trying to pass Jerry for 10 laps can you use them up in one race by getting the tire temp to 250*F? If you don't get them up to 220* (max recommended temp) is it a partial cycle? Clearly, I don't understand tire design.

- Josh

[ShadowBolt]

It probably depends on the load the tire sees. Mike's car with full aero likely puts significantly more load on the tires than a CMC car. A few degree temperature increase due to higher load per heat cycle might make them drop off much more dramatically, just a hypothesis. So when comparing across platforms it could be both. Tyler is seeing potential better life on the Miata.

I'm assuming the tires are 'curing' with heat cycles, (i.e. getting harder, would last longer rubberwise but have less grip). Does the length of the heat cycle matter? If you over cook a set by trying to pass Jerry for 10 laps can you use them up in one race by getting the tire temp to 250*F? If you don't get them up to 220* (max recommended temp) is it a partial cycle? Clearly, I don't understand tire design.

- Josh

I certainly don't understand either Josh.

JJ

[Al Fernandez]

It was the fast miata guys that introduced me to the phrase "no more than five to be in the top five", so my guess is once Tyler is at full song in a Miata he'll have the same experience.

I am getting comfortable with the notion that the thin to win RA1s weren't actually thin to win, rather that we were just slow.

[AllZWay]

It was the fast miata guys that introduced me to the phrase "no more than five to be in the top five", so my guess is once Tyler is at full song in a Miata he'll have the same experience.

I am getting comfortable with the notion that the thin to win RA1s weren't actually thin to win, rather that we were just slow.

The thin to win were great at certain places like Eagles Canyon and Hallett and not real bad at TWS or Houston. They were not very good at Cresson for me.

[mach1]

The thin to win were great at certain places like Eagles Canyon and Hallett and not real bad at TWS or Houston. They were not very good at Cresson for me.

I've also had good luck with older tires at Hallett

[Cody Powell]

It was the fast miata guys that introduced me to the phrase "no more than five to be in the top five", so my guess is once Tyler is at full song in a Miata he'll have the same experience.

I am getting comfortable with the notion that the thin to win RA1s weren't actually thin to win, rather that we were just slow.

Like they used to say "RA1's are slow but they are slow for a really long time"

[Supercharged111]

It probably depends on the load the tire sees. Mike's car with full aero likely puts significantly more load on the tires than a CMC car. A few degree temperature increase due to higher load per heat cycle might make them drop off much more dramatically, just a hypothesis. So when comparing across platforms it could be both. Tyler is seeing potential better life on the Miata.

I'm assuming the tires are 'curing' with heat cycles, (i.e. getting harder, would last longer rubberwise but have less grip). Does the length of the heat cycle matter? If you over cook a set by trying to pass Jerry for 10 laps can you use them up in one race by getting the tire temp to 250*F? If you don't get them up to 220* (max recommended temp) is it a partial cycle? Clearly, I don't understand tire design.

- Josh

Every time I've probed my RRs they're in the 140s, even post Hallett final. Granted I probe them back in the pits when I get out of the car and not trackside, but still I never get them as hot as Toyo recommends unless my probe sucks?

[Sook]

Every time I've probed my RRs they're in the 140s, even post Hallett final. Granted I probe them back in the pits when I get out of the car and not trackside, but still I never get them as hot as Toyo recommends unless my probe sucks?

Tire temps drop fast, even one turn to a next they can change pretty dramatically. We had live IR temp probes looking at wheels on our FSAE car for test and tune. Not our car, but same idea: http://sine.ni.com/cs/app/doc/p/id/cs-722#

[Supercharged111]

Tire temps drop fast, even one turn to a next they can change pretty dramatically. We had live IR temp probes looking at wheels on our FSAE car for test and tune. Not our car, but same idea: http://sine.ni.com/cs/app/doc/p/id/cs-722#

An IR probe measures the surface temp though. I know that changes very quickly, but the pokey probe that goes in gets a better idea of what went on all session long. Again, never checked balls hot without a cooldown lap. One of those things I always forget about and never seem to have a body around to do for me.