2009 Nationals CMC Vid - would you pay to have it produced?

[GlennCMC70]

Chris McComb suggested this idea. i want to know how you guys feel about it.


Okay, it's WAY early for most folks to be thinking about the Nats at Miller, but this is something that might require an early start.


As you all know, there was no video for CMC in 2008.

I think there are two main reasons:
1) CMC is basically a stock class. This makes it tough to find a sponsor, since they would have to wonder how much business they could possibly get back from us.

2) Jeremy Croiset, the NASA guy who handles this kind of stuff, thinks our low numbers at Nats also affected the potential sponsors.


The Nats videos cost $3000, which is not chump-change. But it shouldn't be insurmountable for our group.

If we can find 6 sponsors, that's $500 each, which seems like a reasonable amount. If we think about the 3 companies who are providing contingencies on a national basis in 2009 (Carbo, Hawk, Toyo) we are halfway there already.

If we try to levy some amount per region or per car/driver, there will no doubt be folks who complain "why should I care?!"

Before I go any further, does anyone else want to pursue this? I'd be willing to try to coordinate efforts, etc. It's just that I really think this is important for CMC; we are the one truly affordable V8 class in the country, whether you talk about NASA or SCCA or anyone else, and a Nats video could be a great recruiting tool.



thanks
chris

the idea of adding a $1-$2 fee to the per event registration would likely more than pay for most of this.

feedback welcome.

[jeffburch]

$3K?
Used to be $2K.
jb

[mitchntx]

A regional registration fee increase will be a hard sell. Those who are not planning on attending aren't likely to want to foot part of the bill for those who are.

Now, add $25 to the Nationals entry fee to cover media production, that would probably be a little easier.

As far as trying to get sponsors, ask Robert about his return on investment. A vendor can only get a significant return for those guys who are new, just entering the series. And that mostly comes from safety related gear which is purchased once every 5 years or so.

For CMC, consumables are the only cost and those guys are already on board. Asking for additional monies will be a tough sell unless you can show a return. Toyo doesn't need to as they have the market locked.

Now that the brake rule has been gashed wide open, there are possibilities for StopTech and Willwood. The downside, is they aren't gonna develop and market brake kits for a couple hundred potential customers and for platforms that are 10 years old or older.

It's a nice thought and good idea. But it just doesn't play at this level.

[Adam Ginsberg]

A regional registration fee increase will be a hard sell.

While I can understand this statement, here's the reality - asking for $2 additional dollars per regional CMC entry fee is about ~0.5% of the total entry fee (assuming $300 per entry across the US).

We're not talking about $5, $10, or $15 - it's $2 per entry. IMO, that's an insignificant increase.


Those who are not planning on attending aren't likely to want to foot part of the bill for those who are.

Here's another piece of reality - believe it or not, each region benefits from the Nationals. Especially when a video is produced that helps "set the hook", if you will, to potential new drivers.


Now, add $25 to the Nationals entry fee to cover media production, that would probably be a little easier.

Not a bad idea, but even if we have 30 cars, $25 won't come close to covering the costs. We'd need 120 cars.

FWIW, I've already committed $100 even though I have no intentions of racing at the 2009 Nationals.

[GlennCMC70]

from our POV we should be looking at this as a marketing tool. this benifits everyone, not just those who attend Nats.

here in Texas we have become almost famous for our year in review vids, and from folks who dont even race, or even race CMC. it put us on the radar when when nothing else did. we always made an effort to ensure that those regional vids didnt cost those who made them. in this case, the vid will not be made unless its sponsored. so a $1 or $2 will not be a large impact, but will go a long ways towards this.
two Directors have already pledged significant donations. i would dare to say, we are well over 1/3 of the overall cost.

[mitchntx]

Not gonna argue that a $2 "media fee" is relatively insignificant. and I also understand the marketing aspect of it.

But let me quote a now infamous regional coordinator ...
"This is a slippery slope"

From a personal POV, I don't see how increasing NASA's car count benefits me as much as it benefits NASA. And if NASA can't see the benefit of investing $3K (just 10 regional entry fees) then maybe there is something there.

If you do this ... all my shit is for sale!!!!!!! 8)

[GlennCMC70]

if NASA did it for us, they would have to do it for all class's.
not gonna happen.

i'm really shocked about this. the RM guys have surely "one up'ed" us on this one.

[mitchntx]

i'm really shocked about this. the RM guys have surely "one up'ed" us on this one.

LOL ... resorting to embarrassment over merit?

It boils down to would I pay someone $12 ($2 x 6 weekends) for a copy of the CMC Nationals race. It's the same as asking me to pay $12 for a copy of the AI race and the GT race and the PT/TT events. There are Texas guys in those events as well.

[chris-CMC#35]

Looks like Mitch has said "no" three times; he can rest now.

Anyone else have an opinion?


-chris

[mitchntx]

Looks like Mitch has said "no" three times; he can rest now.

Anyone else have an opinion?


-chris

Understand ... STFU

[chris-CMC#35]

Looks like Mitch has said "no" three times; he can rest now.

Anyone else have an opinion?


-chris

Understand ... STFU

not true, it just comes from something I learned when I was an elected official in California (now THAT was rough): after 3 times, we really do get it. :wink:

[David Love AI27]

I would pay a one time $15 fee to nationals if I knew it would be used for wide spread distribution (outside of NASA), for its promotional value.

My pet peeve is the lack of promotion on ALL levels of NASA...

Hand them out to all new DE students and TT guys for starters... Misti could give them out to her students and maybe Rick with TDE would be willing to include them in his driver packets...

my 2 cents...

[AI#97]

Considering the media company is now selling DVD's for $50 that includes all the races, is that taken off the $3000 per race!

The reality of all this is that the term "Marketing" and grassroots racing are not related. You guys would be better off spending your time and efforts learning how to corner the stock market or finding a better paying job to pay for your racing habits.

Our "market" is just so tiny, and without fans in the stands and concessions sales, asking for anything more than table scraps has people laughing in your face. Without broadcast media coverage and no more than 5 or 6 events a YEAR that aren't even at the same track/city... it's YOUR wallet, and YOURS only that is going to fund this stuff for 99.5% of the situations.

I have given up personally. Without NASA, or NASATX being there to support us helping their business grow....it's a lost cause.

I do wish you guys luck though as the race video is a very nice momento for those that do go to nationals and can have something to watch over and remember the good times! I still watch the AI vid once or twice a week and my in-car probably 5 times a week!!!

[michaelmosty]

I would be willing to fork over some $$ for the video. It is a huge commitment that all participants give to go to Nationals and a video is something well deserved they should be able to enjoy throughout the years.
One of my big concerns from 07 was the selection of cars they put cameras on. IIRC they put "on-car" cameras on the top 4 people. There was excellent footage from the front of the race but nothing from the remaining 3/4. Some of the best racing was for p5-p12 and nobody got to see it.
For $3,000 / series I would think they should be able to make one amazing video! I would like to see it happen.

[Adam Ginsberg]

not true, it just comes from something I learned when I was an elected official in California (now THAT was rough): after 3 times, we really do get it. :wink:

Wow....you really are a glutton for punishment! ;)

[AI#97]

I would be willing to fork over some $$ for the video. It is a huge commitment that all participants give to go to Nationals and a video is something well deserved they should be able to enjoy throughout the years.
One of my big concerns from 07 was the selection of cars they put cameras on. IIRC they put "on-car" cameras on the top 4 people. There was excellent footage from the front of the race but nothing from the remaining 3/4. Some of the best racing was for p5-p12 and nobody got to see it.
For $3,000 / series I would think they should be able to make one amazing video! I would like to see it happen.

They did the same thing this year on the AI vid. They hit up the front gridded cars. If they had realized the fastest cars on track were gridded oh say...10th and 12th, ;) they would have had a LOT better footage for the video! :lol: Hell, a camera on Rusty's car going from 21st? to 7th would have been awesome just in itself.

What we did get for $3000 is a bargain. Watch WC race from MO and count the number of cameras and manpower for broadcasting and you will see what $1 million will get you per 40 minute race! :shock:

[BlueFirePony]

For what it's worth, if I was running CMC I'd be OK with 2$ and I'd be OK with $2 for AI ('cause I plan to be at Nationals in a year or two :twisted: )

What I'd really like though is some coordinated effort for drivers at Nats to offer their race footage up to the community at large and see if we could do this at a grass-roots level. I know how much time is involved and I also know that with some planning a lot of in-car footage can be "farmed out" to a community to make a pretty good product.
I mean forget about the sponsors or some media company deciding where the camera's go...I'll bring one for my in-car and another if someone mid-pack does not have one and we can get the footage that way.

I really agree with the notion that if this is supposed to be for a
promotion of the class, then it needs to be part of a campaign that NASA gets behind, uses to generate interest and grow the class...otherwise its just a nice keepsake and then you will get pushback.

[GlennCMC70]

WC should not even be used to compair.
all WC drivers are required to run a Chase Cam. they also must turn over the vid data w/in 30 minutes of the race end. no if's and's or butt's. :wink:
makes it pretty easy to have vid for each car whn that happens - at the Teams expense.

[AllZWay]

I think the total cost of the video is outrageous. It just isn't that good for the money.

I personally don't see the benefit of the video to anyone but those that run nationals.

If I was running nationals I would have no problem paying for it...but since I don't and most likely never will, I really don't have an interest in paying for it.

Sorry, I know that may not be popular and the money is not really that high per race, but we already are paying too much.

[AI#97]

WC should not even be used to compair.
all WC drivers are required to run a Chase Cam. they also must turn over the vid data w/in 30 minutes of the race end. no if's and's or butt's. :wink:
makes it pretty easy to have vid for each car whn that happens - at the Teams expense.

Glenn, I was using it to compare that what we got for $3000 was a bargain. that is all. Also, NONE of the WC film is used for the TV broadcast. In car vid is entirely on SpeedTV to generate and provide equipment for.

AI won't have have too much of a problem getting sponsors for the video because we use so many aftermarket items on the cars. Agent47 and Maximum Motorsports, direct competitors paid for ours this year, AND paid out contingencies at years end. Sponsors like that for CMC are going to be tough to find.

Now, the idea of "requesting" each competitor to provide high quality footage via a "spec" list of cameras and then turn over to a volunteer to process would be a great way to "market" the class.


One thing I would like to see is NASA putting together commercials like SCCA does on SpeedTV to spark interest. A simple 30 second commercial to hook people during NOPI Tuner vision, pinks or the other "cheaper" time slots would be a great start to a focused marketing campaign for NASA as a whole and then on down to the respective classes. the vids we produce support each series once the people find out NASA even exists....

Damnit....there I go day dreaming again! :oops:

[AI#97]

I think the total cost of the video is outrageous. It just isn't that good for the money.


James, they had 5 broadcast quality camera setups with operators, two announcers and someone to splice/dice all the footage on the expensive equipment required to do so. That's $100k in cameras, $10-15k in salaries for the week and travel costs... and turned out 7 videos for $21k... that's a bargain considering they are also hosting the videos for FREE streaming. Trust me, those guys aren't making any money on the deal and might not even be covering their costs.

[AllZWay]

I think the total cost of the video is outrageous. It just isn't that good for the money.


James, they had 5 broadcast quality camera setups with operators, two announcers and someone to splice/dice all the footage on the expensive equipment required to do so. That's $100k in cameras, $10-15k in salaries for the week and travel costs... and turned out 7 videos for $21k... that's a bargain considering they are also hosting the videos for FREE streaming. Trust me, those guys aren't making any money on the deal and might not even be covering their costs.

I won't argue that they have an investment in it...but the quality is not very good.

Eric's videos with the crappy video we provide is always better.

[RichardP]

Eric's videos with the crappy video we provide is always better.


And if we paid Eric for his time, we couldn't afford his video either...


Richard P.

[AllZWay]

Eric's videos with the crappy video we provide is always better.


And if we paid Eric for his time, we couldn't afford his video either...


Richard P.

True....I think I'll just do like Mitch and shut up. I think I have voiced enough opinnion for one day. :P

[Todd Covini]

not true, it just comes from something I learned when I was an elected official in California (now THAT was rough): after 3 times, we really do get it. :wink:

Wow....you really are a glutton for punishment! ;)

Chris...you're not gaining any traction with Mitch on that one. :lol:

I'm trying to figure out what's worse in Warren's World...
a) an elected official in California
b) an oil company manager in Corporate HQ
c) an overzealous CMC director in Texas

hmmmmm :?:

[mitchntx]

While I used money invested as an example, for me, it's not really about the money. Those that know me, know that I am a pretty generous person.

This is more about principle.

NASA and NASA-Tx is a for profit business.

What other for profit business has the "employees" generate the marketing and marketing strategy where the expressed purpose is to generate more income for the business AND have someone else join the company?

I'm no business major, but explain that to me to where it makes sense and I'll write a check tomorrow.


And Chris, I understand completely. I'm like a California politician and just need to STFU.

[GlennCMC70]

i could care less how much money NASA TX makes. i do care about how sucessful our series is. and if that means i have to do things that someone else should be doing but isnt, so be it, if it has a return to me.

enough on this. i'm suprised somewhat. refelcts what the east coast told Kent.

[mitchntx]

http://www.selway.org/garcia/

[Adam Ginsberg]

i could care less how much money NASA TX makes.

Frankly, you should care what NASA Texas makes....if they are not financially viable, you'll have nowhere to race your hooptie.

As pointed out by Mitch - NASA, and NASA Texas is a for profit business, like it or not.

It is what it is.

[GlennCMC70]

don't disagree. but if we as AI/CMC are successful, we will have a place. it may be w/ a different org, but we will.
my circle of influence ends w/ AI/CMC, so that is all i worry about.

[mitchntx]

The excuse I see used here over and over is that this is a marketing tool.
The problem is, there is no vehicle given to use that tool.

Marketing 101 is analyze your audience and make it easy for them to take the bait.

Our target audience for this video isn't going to see it on this forum or even the National forum. The best bet is to see it prominently displayed on the NASA National site.

And the design and layout of that site is not for newbs looking to get into racing, rather the existing racer to find links to appropriate forms and rule sets and to hawk the sponsor's wears.

So, there is no marketing plan or strategy for new racers. It's hit or miss, word of mouth at best.

Glenn and I talked for a while about this and he is right, having something like this makes the series look more "professional".

But look professional to who?

Like it or not, those of you reading this don't matter in a marketing plan or strategy for NASA or NASA-Tx. You are already hooked and in neck deep. Making it "professional" looking is nothing more than stroking the ego of those seen on camera. Sorry if that hurts, but it's true.

It's the Andrew Hahns and the Randy Englishes and the Greg Hughes is who the strategy should matter to. Those poor guys had to work their asses off to just find the series. Kudos to those guys for persevering ...

Andrew began contacting NASA-Texas in OCTOBER of last year about Honda Challenge or Spec Focus. And in JANUARY, he finally got a response, eventually contacting LAW.

So spending $3K won't do a bit of good moving this series forward till we can ALL get on board with a realistic marketing strategy and then have complete and thorough follow through by everyone.

Otherwise, this is just a keepsake video.

For real, this time, Chris. ;)

[BlueFirePony]

And the design and layout of that site is not for newbs looking to get into racing, rather the existing racer to find links to appropriate forms and rule sets and to hawk the sponsor's wears.

Definately lacking on the Attract and Engage side of user experience.

I don't remember how I finally got the email addresses for Al, Todd and Glenn but I do remember I was this close || to skipping the whole thing and just taking my Mustang to the drag strip...I started looking into it in March 2007 and I think it was divine intervention that got me to that last NASA event in 2007.
I got hooked into SCCA fairly quickly and if they had a better use of North Texas tracks I might be the sole car in American Sedan in SWDiv right now.
There is absolutely a great story here in Texas AI/CMC (and I am sure around the country) - I'll leave breadcrumbs on my way to Ohio and hopefully find may way back someday.

Back to the topic of the video...I'll be willing to help put the vid together if it turns into a grass-roots thing...or pony up the $2...or just STFU :)

[jeffburch]

There's always the cash crop known as the Texas Mile.
What class will a cmc car fit?
jb

[AI#97]

There's always the cash crop known as the Texas Mile.
What class will a cmc car fit?
jb

They have classes there? Thought it was just banging gears for 20 seconds or so and out...rinse, repeat and drive 5 hours back home? Funny how THAT makes it on a 3am speedTV show but race weekends don't. Or take one even further....Jack gets "Motorsport Ranch" onto MavTV and no offense...but is the dryest, most boring show on TV...but I still watch it.

eh, I am going back to the garage to work on my....racecar?

[michaelmosty]

And the design and layout of that site is not for newbs looking to get into racing, rather the existing racer to find links to appropriate forms and rule sets and to hawk the sponsor's wears.

Definately lacking on the Attract and Engage side of user experience.

I don't remember how I finally got the email addresses for Al, Todd and Glenn but I do remember I was this close || to skipping the whole thing and just taking my Mustang to the drag strip...I started looking into it in March 2007 and I think it was divine intervention that got me to that last NASA event in 2007.
I got hooked into SCCA fairly quickly and if they had a better use of North Texas tracks I might be the sole car in American Sedan in SWDiv right now.
There is absolutely a great story here in Texas AI/CMC (and I am sure around the country) - I'll leave breadcrumbs on my way to Ohio and hopefully find may way back someday.

Back to the topic of the video...I'll be willing to help put the vid together if it turns into a grass-roots thing...or pony up the $2...or just STFU :)
I know we have a "how did you get started in racing" thread somewhere but I don't have the patience to find it.
I remember Marshall talking about AI/CMC racing and me joining him out at MSR-C back in 2003 to watch a race. The only cars I remember were Richard Dickey, a yellow SN95 stang, I think Mike Bell's "sapphire blue" Mustang, and Todd when his hood flew up on the front straight. It is funny how things change b/c I left the weekend thinking that was cool, I'll stick to my old LeMans. Marshall continued working on his car and I went w/ him to his first event at TWS in 2004. I rode with him and was blown away with the performance of the car, this was on the warm-up lap. I think his best lap of the weekend was something like 2:15 and it felt like we were flying. :lol:
Most of ya'll know the story from there. I burn my old T/A to the ground, build a CMC car, and get a cheap replacement T/A that has been rock solid ever since. Things couldn't have worked out any better!! :D

[mitchntx]

I learned about the series from Nick.

[ShadowBolt]

I have to give credit to Mr JB for letting me know about NASA. Even though I was doing DE's (and getting tired of it) I had no idea there was anything like CMC. I only knew about SCCA and knew it was way more money than I wanted to spend. If the word got out to even just the DE crowd I think you could have 40 CMC cars start every race. I bet most DE'rs don't know anything about a race group that is in the CMC price range. I don't think it would be hard to sell CMC.


JJ

[evarner]

I've thought about putting together a 30-45sec promo for CMC/AI. I'm still working on my voice overs "In a world...".

A short video with the nuts and bolts along with how to get there would be great to distribute and could possible generate a heck of a lot of interest.

[AI#97]

I have to give credit to Mr JB for letting me know about NASA. Even though I was doing DE's (and getting tired of it) I had no idea there was anything like CMC. I only knew about SCCA and knew it was way more money than I wanted to spend. If the word got out to even just the DE crowd I think you could have 40 CMC cars start every race. I bet most DE'rs don't know anything about a race group that is in the CMC price range. I don't think it would be hard to sell CMC.


JJ

W2W racing is a harder sell than you can imagine in TX. Most men in this area are too whipped to be "allowed" to race both due to the danger and costs...and even more are too afraid to tear things up. Throw into the fact that most "motor heads" in TX have pretty large foreheads and think banging gears for 10 seconds is the shiznit or sitting in the stands watching 43 cars go round in circles for 2 hours is A-W-E-S-O-M-E!!!


When Michael, Mixon, Myself and Jay put our cars on display in 2006 for the "largest outdoor car show in Dallas" and there were 20 or 30 thousand people milling about for 6 to 8 hours and we got less than 10 inquires about how fast our cars were in the 1/4 mile :roll: , you get the idea that road racing is just not popular around here.....and here it comes....BECAUSE NO ONE KNOWS IT EVEN EXISTS or has the preconception it costs 100's of thousands of dollars a year to do it.

If the word could get out that you could build a CMC/2 car for $10k and spend about $7k a year for a full regional season and experience the thrills of V8 fun...we might get 1 or 2 more cars! :P

[AI#97]

I've thought about putting together a 30-45sec promo for CMC/AI. I'm still working on my voice overs "In a world...".

A short video with the nuts and bolts along with how to get there would be great to distribute and could possible generate a heck of a lot of interest.

Eric, the guy that did those voice overs died in the last 6 months so you should have free license to "copy" his intros! ;)

[GlennCMC70]

Matt - your costs are way off.
$5K can build a car and $3K can fund a full season.

[evarner]

I've thought about putting together a 30-45sec promo for CMC/AI. I'm still working on my voice overs "In a world...".

A short video with the nuts and bolts along with how to get there would be great to distribute and could possible generate a heck of a lot of interest.

Eric, the guy that did those voice overs died in the last 6 months so you should have free license to "copy" his intros! ;)

Yep, sad, very sad indeed. I've followed Don LaFontaine - The Voiceover Master's career for many many years and he will be missed. :cry:

[Todd Covini]

WHY A HAVING A NATIONALS VIDEO IS IMPORTANT:

1) AI/CMC are two of the best classes out there (IMO).

2) Believe it or not, race classes compete for viability. When there are no more entrants, the class goes away. (GTI cup anyone?) Doesn't matter if there are 50 of them in one state...need a national presence.

3) Like it or not, Nationals is a perceived snapshot of the health of each series. The general racer public see there are 50+ Spec Miatas at Nationals, then to the would-be racer..."Spec Miata is the class to get into". If there are 10 CMC cars at Nationals, "the class is probably going away"....regardless of the fact that some regions have twice as many AI/CMC cars than SM cars on any regional weekend. Magazine/Media event coverage is high at Nationals...low at regional races.

3A) In case you haven't noticed, GRM is convincing readers that 944 Spec is the funnest, cheapest class to get into because it's only ~$15k for a car and they have 35+ cars at nationals. Anyone see the irony in that?

4) Running AI/CMC successfully (20+ cars) in regional silos isn't the best long term solution for the series. There are only so many friends who will go racing and then the well will dry up. Having a strong national presence is a marketing tool in and of itself. Folks will come out of the woodwork to race AI/CMC if car count is up everywhere and it's recognized everywhere. Otherwise, we're all just a bunch of local Pinocle Clubs in various areas doing their own thang.

5) Here's the WIIFM. (What's In It For Me) We're not trying to voluntarily market the series to raise revenue for NASA. Sure that's a byproduct, but the WIIFMs are:
a) High car count
b) Premium run group on schedule
c) Better racing
d) More friends with common interests
e) all the perks that come with a-d that we currently enjoy;
+ Better Toyo Bucks
+ Better opportunities for contingency sponsors
+ More buddy deals & horse trading of car parts (and patio furniture!)
...I could go on & on.

How many of us think our Motorsport Lives were better BEFORE AI/CMC?
With the way that AI/CMC racers pull together, share & help one another...the party can only get better with more people!

We've decided against the National Video "tax" and those who want to voluntarily contribute to the cause can do so in the post that Chris McComb posted on the national CMC site.

Here's to seeing a large CMC field at the '09 Nationals!

-=- Todd

[AI#97]

Matt - your costs are way off.
$5K can build a car and $3K can fund a full season.

so build me a 4th gen LS1 for $5k ;)


I don't see how you could do 6 events with entry fee and gas for $3k... The entry fees alone are $1800 man! keep in mind we Non-directors have to pay for our entry fees! :?

[David Love AI27]

I came to NASA as a corner worker who had witnessed SCCA, CVAR, PCA, NASA, CART and Trans-am from track side. I made a habit of walking the padock at lunch and at the end of the day. Racers in SCCA, basically shunned me as the nosey conerworker, dressed in all white and has no life... But Todd Covini welcomed me asked me what my interests were, told me about the website and encouraged me to find a car...

At that time and still today I own a Mini Cooper that we have been trying to get into CVAR, but I keep getting pushed away...

When I tell cornerworkers about stuff that happened on track and where to find the videos, they love it. I get asked many times how to get one of our end of year vids... I probably shouldn't give this away but some of the corner workers have some awsome pics and vids from trackside... :shock:

Most of the TWS workers have an interest in driving or at least riding in race cars.. in fact Sam and Darcie have a CMC car in the last stages of prep... we should be handing out OUR vids to the workers and spectators and build OUR series...

[mitchntx]

WHY A HAVING A NATIONALS VIDEO IS IMPORTANT:

1) AI/CMC are two of the best classes out there (IMO).

2) Believe it or not, race classes compete for viability. When there are no more entrants, the class goes away. (GTI cup anyone?) Doesn't matter if there are 50 of them in one state...need a national presence.

3) Like it or not, Nationals is a perceived snapshot of the health of each series. The general racer public see there are 50+ Spec Miatas at Nationals, then to the would-be racer..."Spec Miata is the class to get into". If there are 10 CMC cars at Nationals, "the class is probably going away"....regardless of the fact that some regions have twice as many AI/CMC cars than SM cars on any regional weekend. Magazine/Media event coverage is high at Nationals...low at regional races.

3A) In case you haven't noticed, GRM is convincing readers that 944 Spec is the funnest, cheapest class to get into because it's only ~$15k for a car and they have 35+ cars at nationals. Anyone see the irony in that?

4) Running AI/CMC successfully (20+ cars) in regional silos isn't the best long term solution for the series. There are only so many friends who will go racing and then the well will dry up. Having a strong national presence is a marketing tool in and of itself. Folks will come out of the woodwork to race AI/CMC if car count is up everywhere and it's recognized everywhere. Otherwise, we're all just a bunch of local Pinocle Clubs in various areas doing their own thang.

5) Here's the WIIFM. (What's In It For Me) We're not trying to voluntarily market the series to raise revenue for NASA. Sure that's a byproduct, but the WIIFMs are:
a) High car count
b) Premium run group on schedule
c) Better racing
d) More friends with common interests
e) all the perks that come with a-d that we currently enjoy;
+ Better Toyo Bucks
+ Better opportunities for contingency sponsors
+ More buddy deals & horse trading of car parts (and patio furniture!)
...I could go on & on.

How many of us think our Motorsport Lives were better BEFORE AI/CMC?
With the way that AI/CMC racers pull together, share & help one another...the party can only get better with more people!

We've decided against the National Video "tax" and those who want to voluntarily contribute to the cause can do so in the post that Chris McComb posted on the national CMC site.

Here's to seeing a large CMC field at the '09 Nationals!

-=- Todd

1) Your opinion is a reason?

2) Agreed. But see marketing strategy post above.

3) Agreed. But guess what ... Spec Miata and MX5 cup IS MARKETED HEAVILY BY MAZDA!!!!!! zoom-zoom, baby!

4) National presence? You mean the place where all those same friends you speak of meet, just at a different track? Without National support, we are relegated to just that ... silos doing our own thang!

The real problem is we are racing platforms that are obsolete. That is the well that is drying up, the platform. So, there will never be manufacturer backing.

We have to look at the aftermarket. Oops ... sorry, we can't use any aftermarket parts.

It's time for a reality check, guys ...

5a) I still don't understand how that's a plus for me personally. I race the guy in front and the guy behind. I see what in for THEM, but not for ME.

5b) OK, so I get home at 8pm on Sunday instead of 11pm. If I asked you to delay your leaving the track for 3 hours and give you $50 for doing so, would you? If you are on a shoestring budget, odds are yes.

5c) Uh? It's always the guy in front and the guy in back.

5d) If racing has totally consumed your life, then I agree.

5e) You mean like this sweet "For Sale" sign I have? 8)

My motorsports life is 100% better after finding this group of guys. I am truly blessed. But I certainly hope it's not anyone total life. That would be really sad.

[AI#97]

Don't know if you guys have been watching the National AI board or not, but Robin Burnett and Chris DeSalvo have been working hard on a multi regional "East Coast Series Championship" and have been picking up steam and sponsors. WHEN they suceed, maybe their ideas will spread?

http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24833

[GlennCMC70]

Matt - your costs are way off.
$5K can build a car and $3K can fund a full season.

so build me a 4th gen LS1 for $5k ;)


I don't see how you could do 6 events with entry fee and gas for $3k... The entry fees alone are $1800 man! keep in mind we Non-directors have to pay for our entry fees! :?

i said a car "can be built", not "i can build you a car". once you start paying to have stuff done, all bets are off.

as for the $3K - if your a front runner, no tire costs. so brakes, and other wear items. fuel. and you sleep in the trailer. you have to feed yourself no matter if your racing or not, so dont count that cost. seems pretty easy to do for the rest thats left. i normally tell fork $5K, but even thats far less than your number.

[AI#97]

Matt - your costs are way off.
$5K can build a car and $3K can fund a full season.

so build me a 4th gen LS1 for $5k ;)


I don't see how you could do 6 events with entry fee and gas for $3k... The entry fees alone are $1800 man! keep in mind we Non-directors have to pay for our entry fees! :?

i said a car "can be built", not "i can build you a car". once you start paying to have stuff done, all bets are off.

as for the $3K - if your a front runner, no tire costs. so brakes, and other wear items. fuel. and you sleep in the trailer. you have to feed yourself no matter if your racing or not, so dont count that cost. seems pretty easy to do for the rest thats left. i normally tell fork $5K, but even thats far less than your number.

I've been a front runner for 3 years have used less than $1000 in cash for tires in that time frame...I still can't see your number unless you go a full season on 4 tires. Entry fees and tow vehicle fuel alone trip that $3k number. 3 full sets of pads a year, race car gas, food, I sleep in the bed of my truck, oil changes and all and I might be able to do it for $5k...

Each car and driver is going to be different but that $3k seems REALLY low.

[chris-CMC#35]

Matt -

You're in AI...


-chris

[michaelmosty]

I would guess that for the average competitor that doesn't get their weekend comp'd, get a few $100 every now and then for Toyo bucks, sleeps at the track, and has the normal consumables that 6 events would be around $5,000.

These are my estimated amounts.
entry fees - 1,950 (6 events)
tires (1 1/2 sets) - 1,000 (factoring in some Toyo $$)
brake pads and rotors - 600 (2 front / 1 rear pads, 1 set of front rotors)
oil changes, misc. parts & repair - 500 (per year)
race gas - 450 (30 gal / event @ $2.50/gal)
tow gas - 900 ($150 / event)

Total $5,400

[Al Fernandez]

Good discussion guys. This validates our thinking that having a coordinated effort to get a nationals video put together and enable folks to get involved in making that happen would be good but that making it required would be bad. Hey, even a blind squirrel finds a nut here and there.

Keep your eye on that thread on the national site and get with Chris about the details.

[GlennCMC70]

Matt - if you dont buy tires, they dont cost anything.
dont count food. do you not eat when at home?
gas is cheap now, even 93. i dont use but 3 gallons per race.
Houston was my longest tow and this past trip i did it on a tank and a half. $60 each way ($120 total).

i'm doing it for $3K, not everone is in that position. it can be done.

[mitchntx]

I've been a front runner for 3 years have used less than $1000 in cash for tires in that time frame...I still can't see your number unless you go a full season on 4 tires. Entry fees and tow vehicle fuel alone trip that $3k number. 3 full sets of pads a year, race car gas, food, I sleep in the bed of my truck, oil changes and all and I might be able to do it for $5k...

Each car and driver is going to be different but that $3k seems REALLY low.

I can get a whole season from a 6 tires pretty easy. $1000 using Michael's formula
I use 2 sets of $30 rotors from O'Reilly's. That $120
Tony sells Carbotech pads for $134 for the fronts and I can stretch a set through 6 events. Rear pads are $115 and I can easily get a year on those.

Fuel ... I use about 20-25 gallons during a weekend ... that's $300

So, fuel and expendables for a year is ~$1700/year for the #9 car.

I spent $150 on fuel round trip to Houston and back. I figure about that to Hallett and back. $150 for 2 trips to TWS and about $75 to EC and finally $40 to MSRC. That makes it $600 on tow truck fuel.

Now let's talk about registration fees. I teach the HPDE 1/2 classroom for my registration fees. And every event, Mixon is beating the bushes for instructors. So, don't cry to me about registration fees.

There are ways to lower those costs. And this part of the conversation is about what it could actually cost, not what one decides to spend.

I am very fortunate in that I have a few really great sponsors. PST helps out a lot. I have a very good relationship with them. A local kwik-lube takes care of my to rig's oil changes. In return, 4 or 5 times a year, I take the race up to his place on a Saturday and put it on display. Moonlite provides the vinyl, Argent Labs helps out, GoPro has helped ... a little here and a little there ... it adds up!

And Natwell ... what can I say. Steve is very generous and helps out more than he realizes.

I set aside $5000 a year for my racing budget. After some horse trading, buying/selling parts and some side jobs, I had a little over $3600 left at year's end.

$3000 is very doable ...

[AI#97]

Mixon is beating the bushes for instructors. So, don't cry to me about registration fees.[/b]



Don't even go there buddy! I have offered in person, in numerous emails and spoken to Mixon, Ryan and Jessica about being an instructor for NASA for 3 years. They all refer me to Shannon...not one returned phone call or email. Hell, Clifton is my lemons teammate and has forwarded my request....again...not one phone call saying "come on down". I give up.

Last time Mixon asked me to do a check ride at ECR, I told him to pay up or piss off. I am sure there was another justified reason for not doing it like insurance or something but I am sure there are TONS of folks willing to volunteer but have hit the same barrier.

Sounds like you and Glenn have a sweet deal going with the low buck seasons....I would say that's not the norm. Michael's numbers were pretty close to what I would budget for the year, maybe fudge a little more for fuel and brake pad costs but considering we aren't going to get doo-diddly for Toyo bucks this year, add more for tires! :(

[GlennCMC70]

perhaps if you did do the check ride your stock would have gone up w/ Mixon, Shannon or whoever. but the piss of responce likely sealed your fate.

other than that, i dont know what to tell you.

i was on a $5K per year budget in 2005/6. Nationals was another $2K.

[AI#97]

perhaps if you did do the check ride your stock would have gone up w/ Mixon, Shannon or whoever. but the piss of responce likely sealed your fate.


Oh, I totally agree...but after 3 years of frustration and no response, it seemed justified. I realize Kevin's hands are tied by those at the top so it's not his fault.

[mitchntx]

Oh, I totally agree...but after 3 years of frustration and no response, it seemed justified. I realize Kevin's hands are tied by those at the top so it's not his fault.

I guess that's the difference between you and me.

I can put my ego and pride aside for $1900 ...

[GlennCMC70]

man...... nutin' but da bottom of da net foo!

[Jeremy Gunter]

I would help instruct but............

[AI#97]

I guess that's the difference between you and me.

I can put my ego and pride aside for $1900 ...

Ego has nothing to do with it. My expectations were just too high again and being a Type A person, I don't deal with laziness.

[mitchntx]

Well, you lost me there ...

[AI#97]

Well, you lost me there ...

My expectation was that if I call someone, many times to offer help, and those calls go unreturned for nearly 3years, I lose faith and respect and can't stand dealing with shit like that...now are you found?

[michaelmosty]

I would help instruct but...............people wouldn't listen? :P

[Jeremy Gunter]

I would help instruct but...............people wouldn't listen? :P

I'm a rookie and don't know what the hell I'm doing?

[mitchntx]

Well, you lost me there ...

My expectation was that if I call someone, many times to offer help, and those calls go unreturned for nearly 3years, I lose faith and respect and can't stand dealing with shit like that...now are you found?

Maybe $20 worth ...