What is up with this???? (Toyo Announcement)

[michaelmosty]

http://www.camaromustangchallenge.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3231

Toyo news!

[Fbody383]

http://www.camaromustangchallenge.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3231

Toyo news!

Good thing I bought all those RA1's off of Glenn and the Jeffs.

[AllZWay]

Would someone make up their dayum minds.

Everyone needs to be on the same tires since they are not equivalents. :evil:

[michaelmosty]

I am going to refrain from posting much on this topic b/c it would include a bunch of "fuck" and "shit" and the fact that NASA is jerking us around like no other with no happy ending in sight!!

There is no 8) or :lol: or :wink:

and a bunch of :x and :evil: and :cry:

[ShadowBolt]

I ordered 6 triple eights this morning......just changed the order to RA1's. Feels great. I can make the balance of the season with the six new RA1's and the six really thin to wins I have already.


JJ

[AllZWay]

Jerry... Where did you order from?

I guess I will buy an new effing set of RA1's.

[GlennCMC70]

i havent sold a single tire yet.

dayum rookies.

[michaelmosty]

Is this a feakin April Fools Joke????????

Seriously, what is going on??
Can we get verification from a director on this before people spend their $$ on changes!!

[GlennCMC70]

if it is, i'm not aware of it.
sending JWL a note now.

[ShadowBolt]

Jerry... Where did you order from?

I guess I will buy an new effing set of RA1's.

John George

His number is 972-335-4316 or 972-987-5640

[ShadowBolt]

Is this a feakin April Fools Joke????????

Seriously, what is going on??
Can we get verification from a director on this before people spend their $$ on changes!!


It better not be. Since it's on the national site I will assume it's no joke. if it is a joke they (NASA national) can pay my tire bill.


JJ

[GlennCMC70]

i'm locking this till we get more info.
stand by guys.

[GlennCMC70]

Guys-

Not a joke and this is the real deal. We are having a con call with all the RD's this morning at 1000 CA time, so hang tight for 30 minutes and then you can trumpet to the world that it's real. We have been working very closely with Toyo and this was a joint decision to try and get the RA-1's used up and also ease the transition to the 888 once they're gone.

Thanks and sorry we couldn't release this a little more cohesively!

-JWL

Glenn Landrum wrote:
I'm getting several emails and posts on our CMC forums about whether or not this news on allowing the RA1 thru 2009 is an April Fool's joke or not. can you please confirm? I already have guys placing orders for RA1's based on this.

-Glenn Landrum
Texas CMC Series Director

so 30 minutes from now, it should be official.

[GlennCMC70]

vent away.

[jeffburch]

I'm sure some douch got a bonus for selling a bunch of tires.
Phil was having a RA1 close out sale recently. :roll:
So much (again) for "we don't go backwards".

jb

[mitchntx]

It appears that they have gone back to the mid year 2008 mark where all of 2009 was a transition year.

What a PR nightmare this whole this has become. There is no way for Toyo to save face at this point. It has been buhgled from the outset.

[Wirtz]

Unreal....

I keep writing out my thoughts on how poor this has been handled and I keep erasing them. Guess I'll leave it that that.

Anyone want to buy the 888s I just had delivered?

[Todd Covini]

Agreed. This is what happens when you try to make everyone happy. In the end, no-one's happy.

IMO, there should have been a transition date set well in advance and after that date everyone fall in line.

No whining, no complaints, no exceptions, no supply issues...just do it.
Plan your work...and work your plan.

I went out of my way to use up a set of RA1's last weekend, now I wish I hadn't. :x

(posted as a racer)

[jeffburch]

IMO, there should have been a transition date set well in advance and after that date everyone fall in line.

Wasn't there?



No whining, no complaints, no exceptions, no supply issues...just do it.
Plan your work...and work your plan.

:roll:

[michaelmosty]

Who can we call (within NASA) to voice our opinion on this?

[Todd Covini]

Drop JWL an email, but trust me, it's being hashed out and they are aware. All the series directors and taking their racer's concerns to NASA.

[michaelmosty]

Drop JWL an email, but trust me, it's being hashed out and they are aware. All the series directors and taking their racer's concerns to NASA.
I understand there is going to be alot of push-back regarding this. I don't see a way for this decision to change now. It is out in the public and everyone is aware and people have already spent their $$ because of this new rule.
What else is there to hash out? Is there a possibility of this changing again?

I will PM you my concerns to relay to JWL.

[michaelmosty]

BTW, I talked to Al and he is in Nicuragua (sp?) and has no computer access and wanted me to forward that info. to everyone.

[ShadowBolt]

I don't give a shit what tire we run but we should have had plenty of time to use up at least two sets of tires (a season for me) and Toyo should be able to tell you at least something about how to tune the car for the new tire. Since I put everything off till the last minute I had just ordered six 888's this morning when Michael called and ask me if I had seen the post on the CMC site. Again Michael saves me from making a mistake. John tried to convince me to get the 888's since we will all have to learn to use them one day, but as screwy as Toyo and NASA have been on this it would not surprise me if Toyo re-designed the tire or NASA went with another tire company next year. At this point I don't trust either one of them at all.


JJ

[AllZWay]

I would really like to know the whole thought process of setting dates, then changing dates....then setting dates...and then changing dates.

This is an unbeleivable amount of ineptnes. :roll:

How are people supposed to plan with indecision like this? :evil:

[michaelmosty]

Toyo doesn't know crap about tuning a CMC car. All they know is what their info. sheet says that an RA1 is best around 38 hot. The tire tech I talked to about 4 months ago flipped his lid when I told him I came off track around 30 hot. He swore up and down that I would be faster coming off around 38.

I am thinking of switching to the M1 tank series. Toyo makes a sweet new tire for this 60 ton tank. Recommended pressure is 38 lbs. hot. :roll:

[Fbody383]

I am thinking of switching to the M1 tank series.

How do you put a restrictor plate on a turbine?

[ShadowBolt]

I would really like to know the whole thought process of setting dates, then changing dates....then setting dates...and then changing dates.

This is an unbeleivable amount of ineptnes. :roll:

How are people supposed to plan with indecision like this? :evil:


James,

You can still kick all the CMC2 asses even with you running 888's and us on RA1's. I need all the help I can get with you and Al and Mitch.

JJ

[AllZWay]

I will PM you my concerns to relay to JWL.

I pm'ed Todd also. I don't have JWL's email.

[AI#97]

If someone is interested, there will be 4, R888, 255/40/17's with 5 heat cycles on them available shortly. I have RA1's to take me till 2010...all thin to wins! gonna be nice to get a final chance at all the track records this year!

Thanks NASA!!!

<---runs to dodge incoming mortar and small arms fire!

[mitchntx]

Everything Michael, James and Jerry are saying and feeling is EXACTLY what I was feeling when the 09 "deal" was flushed because of discontent.

I empathize ...

[Todd Covini]

Alright, here's the unofficial read on the thought process behind this change based on my discussions with HQ.

There's been a lot of nationwide angst from folks who still have RA1's leftover and not being able to use them. NASA's tried to do the right thing and help ease the pain and get Toyo to recognize RA1's for contingency awards. After a lot of haggling/bargaining, Toyo has accepted and will now allow either tire toward the contingency awards. That's it.

Now, on the competition side, here's what we're left with....
The general thinking is that the 888's are too new and we, the racers, just haven't figured out how to optimize them just yet. Remember, 888's are the tire of choice for most every series. So what might work well for Honda Challenge may not be guaranteed in the "American Slide-On Series". Toyo is likely looking to us to "figure it out", but they believe that equal performance can be had to the RA1...regardless of the platform. (Find Ron Cortez' (from AIM Tire) recommendations on the NASA forums.)

Reading between the lines, I think that this change will enable we, the racers, to vote for our Toyo tire of choice in 2009. Either someone fast is going to figure out how to make the 888 work best, or the masses will satisfice on what they know and purchase the RA1. The proof will be in the pudding. There's enough supply of RA1's and 888's to last the entire season. Until today, there was a warehouse hold on RA1's, so most distributor shelves were empty...but supply should start flowing again soon.

Again, my read on the situation is that Toyo is currently sitting like Coca Cola was in the 80's. Introduced "New & Improved Coke"...while it may be better by all of their standards, the consumers still wanted Classic Coke...and that's what won out in the end.

The RA1 was so good, maybe it's our modern day Classic Coke. Time will tell.

-=- Todd

PS - Fernandez is in Nigeria, not Nicaragua. :roll: I woke him up in the wee hours yesterday morning due to the time diff. :lol:

[Wirtz]

Was there someone "local" that had the ability to shave tires down? I remember some discussion around the Eagles Canyone timeframe but didn't pay attention at the time....

[Todd Covini]

[quote="Todd Covini"] Either someone fast is going to figure out how to make the 888 work best, or the masses will satisfice on what they know and purchase the RA1.
[endquote]

....and we can see which camp Wirtz is striving for.... :wink:

[Jeremy Gunter]

I have nothing to say except this is BS! Especially from a rookie with a crappy car and small... wallet...
Matt, if your giving a good deal on those 888s let me know, I can't afford new tires, so I might as well figure the car out on these "NEW and IMPROVED" tires...

Can Toyo prorate the 888s we do have so we "the broke" can afford a new set of RA1s?

[ShadowBolt]

Toyo is likely looking to us to "figure it out", but they believe that equal performance can be had to the RA1...regardless of the platform. (Find Ron Cortez' (from AIM Tire) recommendations on the NASA forums

I was hoping I was the only one in Texas that read this. Do you think those pressures will really work?


JJ

[Todd Covini]

I'm no expert, but Ron is and I trust his judgement.
In a nutshell, the 888's have:

Same compound.
Stiffer sidewall.
Different treadblock.

That's it. Right? So there's got to be an ideal "888 car setup" and an "RA1 car setup".

Believe me, it sucks having to find this now mid season because we were all hoping to learn the 888 together. (Varvini has run nothing but 888's this season and was waiting for the others to join in the fun, now we've got our work cut out for us...err...him.)

[michaelmosty]

Todd and others, has anyone heard specifically of "anyone" that prefers the 888 tire? Everything that I have read or heard from CMC, AI, spec Miata, E30, or 944 guys is that the tire is not as good.

I would truly like to see good come out of this but I just don't see how this tire is a better fit than the RA1. IMO, the RA1 is the "perfect" tire for our series and for NASA as a whole.

I understand that to maximize the 888 changes need to be made to the car. My concern is that with the dozens or hundreds of smart people that race with NASA nationwide, I have yet to hear a single person that "prefers" the 888.

[Todd Covini]

I prefer Classic Coke too.
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_6bd2hkLwHIQ/SaVW-Kwt-xI/AAAAAAAABlg/sWXrJZHP39E/coke_thumb%5B1%5D.jpg

[GlennCMC70]

this adds yet another reason that 2009 is a "evolution" year. w/ CMC/CMC-2 car count split down the middle and now the tire debacle, it really kinda flaws the data. once we get back to a predominately single class and all on the same tire, all this will be ancient history. it sucks. as of last week i was set on tires for Nationals and screwed locally, now i'm set locally and screwed for Nationals.

so i say we deal w/ it for the remainder of the season. have fun and remember why we all show up to race. R888's or not, i'll be the one having a good time.

[AI#97]

this adds yet another reason that 2009 is a "evolution" year. w/ CMC/CMC-2 car count split down the middle and now the tire debacle, it really kinda flaws the data. once we get back to a predominately single class and all on the same tire, all this will be ancient history. it sucks. as of last week i was set on tires for Nationals and screwed locally, now i'm set locally and screwed for Nationals.

so i say we deal w/ it for the remainder of the season. have fun and remember why we all show up to race. R888's or not, i'll be the one having a good time.

I am liking the new Glenn! :thumbs up:

I think the reason we are seeing this move is a major drop in car count. those that still have RA1's aren't showing up at events and NASA is working to preserve car counts and RETURN on costs to keep going the rest of the year. Has nothing to do with the crappy new tires, other than racers aren't willing to spend the money to keep racing this year. There is something else in the mix guys that isn't being said. I am purely speculating here, but I am rarely wrong on these hunches I get.

Yeah, the new tires suck....yeah, those with RA1's are going to have an advantage....who gives a flip?! Why do we show up to Race weekends? because it's fun and we like hanging out with each other...even though some of us snore more than others! ;)

See you clowns at TWS. If you are showing up with R888's and cannot/will not get RA1's....PM me and I will share what I have found on car setup/tire pressures to help you out as much as I can....team downunder not included! ;) Beyond that, keep your race faces on and shiny side up!

[michaelmosty]

This whole Toyo thing normally wouldn't have bothered me but my gay cowboy picture popped up this morning and put me in a bad mood. :lol:

[Todd Covini]

I predict an 888 sweep at TWS with White, Proctor & Wirtz showing folks how it's done. :oops:

[ShadowBolt]

I predict an 888 sweep at TWS with White, Proctor & Wirtz showing folks how it's done. :oops:

They were so close there last time that if JB runs thin to winn R1's and JW has to run the 888 I'll put my money on JB. Unless he hits me in the rear going into T3.

JJ

[BryanL]

This whole deal is ridiculous. Can't believe they have changed their minds so many times.
Sure wish I wouldn't have just bought a new set of 888's. I'm ready to buy Hoho's, pull my restrictor and go AIX.

Or Mitch-you want to sell any 275 RA1s?

[Mason]

I predict an 888 sweep at TWS with White, Proctor & Wirtz showing folks how it's done. Embarassed

Your prediction is only half right Todd, you must have been thinking of Team Downunder when you wrote the above as Matt will be on RA-1's. I'll forgive your obvious typo. :)

In all seriousness, I'm not sure if I am more disappointed in NASA or Toyo for this situation. NASA gave everyone plenty of notice on when the change over to R888's would be...and then pushed it out another two race weekends for good measure! NASA then decides that...just before our THIRD weekend to swap things up again? This should have been left to the regions to handle... Toyo replaces our much loved, though "old" technology tire with one that is more expensive and by NASA / Toyo's account within 0.1 - 0.2 sec (I would love to see the data on this!). With the technological advances that should have been made since the introduction of the RA-1, the fact that the R888 is not clearly superior to the RA-1 across the board in performance tells me the R888 is a failure.

So here we are...what now is the motivation for the competitors in our "spec" tire series to go over and try the R888? Are people really going to phase in R888's with all the uncertainty? If we had not made the change to 888's already, not modifying fenders, changing car setup, and spending more money on a possibly inferior (note benefit of doubt given) sure sounds good!

Question for you Glenn, how is the National Championship affected? Is that race considered as part of the season and will either tire be allowed, or will the tire war be settled in Utah?

For those of you that can now make races because of this decision, I am glad for it, but still very disappointed in how this came about.

Blah,

Mason

[mitchntx]

The R888 was allowed mid-year 2008 with the remainder of the season as a transition from the RA1s in American Iron (from memory ... don't pay attention to AI stuff, so forgive me if I'm wrong about the specific details)

At the same time, it was announced that in CMC, all of 2009 would be used as a transition year. Then late last year it was Jan 1 and then it was 3rd race weekend and now back to the original notice.

But I agree, Mason. Make a freaking decision and stick with it. Doesn't mean I like it, but I like waffling less.

[AI#97]

I predict an 888 sweep at TWS with White, Proctor & Wirtz showing folks how it's done. Embarassed

Your prediction is only half right Todd, you must have been thinking of Team Downunder when you wrote the above as Matt will be on RA-1's. I'll forgive your obvious typo. :)



come on buddy! I will run 888's at TWS with you! I need to save the RA1's for nationals! I could use the set I had last year that are PERFECT for a win as they sit right now! I am more worried about making 40 minutes on the big track with enough fuel! :shock:

Let's sit down this weekend at apex if you are in town and look over the data from the last test session. I am sure we can find a way around these R888's...you are just going to have to find a way around me! ;)

[Todd Covini]

Hmmmm....I see an AI battle a-brewin'.
Take him up on his offer Melkiwooke....Matt got a ton of track time at TWS last weekend on both the 888's and RA1's. I think for the first time in a long time, he's starting to do his homework! :wink:

No typo....Matt's on his A-game with Wirtz-tenacity.

[Chuck]

WOW! How often can one rule change? Like the weather in Texas, if you don't like it, wait a minute and it will change anyway.


Quote>Was there someone "local" that had the ability to shave tires down? I remember some discussion around the Eagles Canyone timeframe but didn't pay attention at the time....<

Jeff, I heard there is a shop on Mopac that shaves tires in Austin. Never used them, might be an internet rumor. Riethmeyer's auto repair. Let me know if you find someone, I have a set to shave. http://www.howiesays.com/index.html

Chuck
CMC #14

[AllZWay]

But I agree, Mason. Make a freaking decision and stick with it. Doesn't mean I like it, but I like waffling less.

This is my only complaint.... I will be racing and happy to be there.
:)

[AllZWay]

I predict an 888 sweep at TWS with White, Proctor & Wirtz showing folks how it's done. :oops:

No way.....especially not me.

[Mason]

At the same time, it was announced that in CMC, all of 2009 would be used as a transition year. Then late last year it was Jan 1 and then it was 3rd race weekend and now back to the original notice.

I wasn't aware of the change in CMC, thanks for the info, Mitch. I guess it was AI only that was given ample notice. ;)


Let's sit down this weekend at apex if you are in town and look over the data from the last test session. I am sure we can find a way around these R888's...you are just going to have to find a way around me! Wink

I'll be at APEX. I'm pretty happy with where we are in "figuring out" the R888's and we have a set of good RA-1's, so don't get too coy. ;) Let's see what the tire rules will be for Nationals.

[mitchntx]

For me, the 2 folks that were most affected by this latest announcement were Randy English who was in line to purchase my stock pile of RA1s. We talked last night and he was disappointed but understood.

Unfortunately, AJ at PST was a little more peeved.

Many of us had asked for R888s and he ordered them on our word that we would buy them. Now he has a bay full 888s and no one wants them. I imagine from this point forward we will all have to pay in advance.

PST was very accommodating to us, providing a service based on more than the almighty dollar.

I doubt PST is the only merchant getting boned like this. It's especially tough in an economy like this. It would be like me ordering a bunch metal work from Jerry over the phone, Jerry buys all the materials to fill the order and then I change my mind because an ordinance change requires me to create what I need from wood now.

Jerry is now stuck with a 30 day call on the material he ordered. Businesses can't afford that hit today.

I hope, I honestly hope that NASA and Toyo realize that just because they are at the top of this food chain, jerking the rules around like this hurts, not only the racers but those that support us.

[donovan]

Both RA1's and 888's at Nationals... That is what I was told...

DD

[jeffburch]

I would man up to my commitment and still buy the tires I ordered.

I agree verbatim with what Mason said above.
I'm all in on 8's.
I'm no longer considering the Nat's.
jb

[ShadowBolt]

I think it's possible that as Mason said "maybe the R888 is a failure". If that is true we may never really go to the 888 or maybe they fix it's issues? What happens to the people stuck with the already purchased R888's? Nothing would shock me at this point about this tire or Toyo. John thought I should get the 888's instead of the RA1's and learn them but with all the waffling what if the 888 goes away? I asked AJ at the last race if he had an extra set of triple eights and he said he did. I'm glad I did not have him order a set for me or like Jeff said I would owe it to him to take them off his hands.


JJ

[AI#97]

I think it's possible that as Mason said "maybe the R888 is a failure". If that is true we may never really go to the 888 or maybe they fix it's issues? What happens to the people stuck with the already purchased R888's? Nothing would shock me at this point about this tire or Toyo. John thought I should get the 888's instead of the RA1's and learn them but with all the waffling what if the 888 goes away? I asked AJ at the last race if he had an extra set of triple eights and he said he did. I'm glad I did not have him order a set for me or like Jeff said I would owe it to him to take them off his hands.


JJ

You guys need to read Tommy's post on the national AI board today....he bought $30k in 888's for the RM regional supply and I think he's PISSED!!!

[Todd Covini]

At this point, I think it's probably best to ignore all the rhetoric, emotions & complaining and do whatever's best FOR THE SERIES.

We'll see what Monday morning brings....

[Rob Liebbe]

At this point, I think it's probably best to ignore all the rhetoric, emotions & complaining and do whatever's best FOR THE SERIES.

We'll see what Monday morning brings....

Todd "the Tool" Covini :roll:

If the series would listen to the customers, then both will prosper.

[Todd Covini]

The series listened to the customers.

NASA - "Everybody Wang Chung 888"
Customer - "But, We still have RA1's left!!"
NASA - "OK...then run them for the first 2 weekends."
Customer - "But, now some people are faster than others."
NASA - "OK...then run either of them all year long."
Customer - "But, now I've bought the new ones and I don't want them."
:roll:

Seems like listening is what's got us where we are. :lol:
Kidding aside, the point of my post was that we really do need to consider what's best for the series and not the "situations" that a few people are in. We'll whip-saw right until the end of the season if we don't keep the prize in mind. That is, low-cost, durable, available & consistent tires.

IMO, everybody needs to be on the same tire, but NASA is very customer oriented and listens to it's customers and as such, we'll be on both tires for 2009.

Todd "the Tool"

[mitchntx]

The series listened to the customers.

NASA - "Everybody Wang Chung 888"
Customer - "But, We still have RA1's left!!"
NASA - "OK...then run them for the first 2 weekends."
Customer - "But, now some people are faster than others."
NASA - "OK...then run either of them all year long."
Customer - "But, now I've bought the new ones and I don't want them."
:roll:

Seems like listening is what's got us where we are. :lol:
Kidding aside, the point of my post was that we really do need to consider what's best for the series and not the "situations" that a few people are in. We'll whip-saw right until the end of the season if we don't keep the prize in mind. That is, low-cost, durable, available & consistent tires.

IMO, everybody needs to be on the same tire, but NASA is very customer oriented and listens to it's customers and as such, we'll be on both tires for 2009.

Todd "the Tool"

Todd, I think you need to stop embarrassing yourself.

http://www.camaromustangchallenge.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2775&highlight=r888

Post date April 15, 2008


Fellow CMC-ers
We, your series directors, have argued long and hard about what we are seeing after running some of the new for this year tire configurations and feel we need to make some immediate changes, as well as announce some changes to come in for 2009.

First, the immediate changes:
Effective immediately, maximum tire size for CMC2 cars is 275/40R17. No changes to CMC allowable tires. Further, wheel manufacturing/assembling method is no longer restricted, but your wheels must still weigh 16lbs or more. I’ve detailed the changes in the tech bulletin.

Changes coming for 2009 that you want to know about now:
For 2009 the Toyo R888 and the Toyo RA1 will both be allowed in the respective maximum sizes for CMC and CMC2 cars. Toyo intends to continue making the 255/50R16, and we therefore intend on continuing to use it for CMC.

Since you’re going to ask…the driver for allowing the fatter tire in CMC2 cars centers around several things, in no particular order: compatibility with other series, availability of wheels, a sidewall that is less prone to wrecking wheels, and less dramatic change to required car setup.

I'll let the other officials chime in.

So, after a year we are back to square 1. Now after thousands of dollars wasted, unbelievable angst and anger and laughable posturing by those in charge.

And now you have the audacity to blame the racers for this debacle.

I find that insulting and it proves to me that you are so immursed and immeshed that you are willing to say ANYTING as long as it's the company line. Truth and integrity be damned.

For years now, the rhetoric spewed forth by you and other directors are that the rules are written to protect the racers from themselves.

What's protecting us from you?

The latest chest thumping by Tony G proves that none of you guys "in charge" know (or even care) what the other is doing.

It's shameful that you actually ask the racers to what's "best for the series" when we see you and your groupies not.

I encourage you and all those in charge to start, today, to lead this group BY EXAMPLE and not by your personal whim.

The days of you guys being seen as some great racing series leader and promoter are over. Time and time again it has been shown that you guys are in it for some other reason, saying its "what's best for the series".

We are a smart group of people and its time you realize that we are not just lemmings or willing to follow the Pied Piper.

Just STOP!

[BryanL]

but NASA is very customer oriented and listens to it's customers and as such, we'll be on both tires for 2009.

Todd "the Tool"

Spare me the corporate mumbo jumbo. In this situation everybody loses in my opinion.

So whats the deal for next year? Unless they make up their mind I am probably going to do other events since the decals are already off my car. Lets see if they listen to this customer. Since even Toyo admits that the 888 needs a different setup then make up your mind for next year so we can either work on a new setup or not bother with it.

[ShadowBolt]

That is, low-cost, durable, available & consistent tire.

Todd "the Tool"

This is a no-brainer. The RA1 fits this bill way more than the 888 does. If what we are looking for in a tire are these four things why was the RA1 ever replaced by the POS 888

JJ

[AI#97]

So whats the deal for next year? Unless they make up their mind I am probably going to do other events since the decals are already off my car. Lets see if they listen to this customer. Since even Toyo admits that the 888 needs a different setup then make up your mind for next year so we can either work on a new setup or not bother with it.


While I am learning to bite my tongue and not say/type the first thing on my mind, I DO NOT want to see NASA faulter in this scenario. I have too much time, effort and money invested in this to start figuring out where to run my car or if someone will buy it.

I think the smart thing to do at this point is for NASA to say/agree publicly that this has all been a huge fuck up, and "here is the plan for 2010" so we see where we are going.

I know we used to speak of the "5 Year plan" for our series, but if NASA is going to save themselves from this situation, we need to see where we are going from here. I would expect them to work out a deal with Toyo to fix the problem, or work a new deal with a new company for 2010 and deliver that "plan" to the racers by June 1st.

The problem I see right now is that NASA national will not admit there is a problem because of their data. Well, their data is incomplete and from my offline conversations, they refuse to take into account there are problems outside of the H1 category. I think they are aware of the spec miata issue of running similar laptimes and no setup changes, but the tires are lasting less than 2 events. We/I have tried to give them input on AI/CMC use of the r888, but they won't even listen which bothers me the most and the only answer I got was "spend money on new springs, shocks and setup the car softer...." which, HELLO, doesn't work on aero car.

I am spending no more money with TOYO this year for either tire until someone comes up with a plan for 2010 so I know I am not pissing away money while they choose to ignore the problem.

Oh well, there I go again speaking my mind. :oops:

[Todd Covini]

Sheesh Mitch. :shock:
I'm not even on the track and you STILL managed to rear-end me when I wasn't looking.

Calm down. I posted in jest and my point was that "NASA does listen". I'm not "blaming the racers" or any of that other gobley goop you put in there. Call my cell if you've got a issue.

[mitchntx]

Call my cell if you've got a issue.

The only issue I have is all the finger pointing that's going on.

In April of 2008 when this whole thing first surfaced, if those in charge would have just left it alone, then none of this would've happened. And the R888 would have been golden because we'd all be on the same tire by Hallett at least.

But somewhere along the line, someone got greedy.

It pisses me off when folks at high levels think I should just follow along like nothing is wrong when everything around us is crumbling into a heap.

And the folks that are gonna get hurt the most out of this is NASA regional. Toyo will still make their money, as will national. But we are strapped for cash and marking drops on our calendar in order to save for some tires.

Who gets hurt in that scenario?

[Todd Covini]

Call my cell if you've got a issue.

The only issue I have is all the finger pointing that's going on.

It pisses me off when folks at high levels think I should just follow along like nothing is wrong when everything around us is crumbling into a heap.



Thanks Mitch. I totally understand where you're coming from and I guess I was getting frustrated for the same reasons. Getting tired of the finger pointing and the constant negativity when everything around us is not the end of the world. Not everyone wants to follow that pied piper, either.

Don't get me wrong...the Toyo situation isn't the best, but I guess we're looking at things from equal & opposite perspectives.

[mitchntx]

I guess we're looking at things from equal & opposite perspectives.

At least we agree on something.

How's the weather up there in that ivory tower?

[Todd Covini]

Boy, you guys must really think highly of me.

"Those in high power."
"The ivory tower."
"NASA corporate HQ."

If you ever visited NASA HQ, you'd be sorely disappointed. hehehehe
We're all just a bunch of good guys trying to enjoy the sport we love.

That's what's ironic in this whole thing.

[David Love AI27]

I haven't tried the 888s and even if the tire is not as good as the RA1s I'm not faulting Toyo for the current situation because when I coached softball many years ago and there were complaints about the field or umpires I reminded my players that both teams used the same field and same officials... that said I feel like NASA dropped the ball by changing the playing field allowing competitors to compete on DIFFERENT fields (tires)...

[AI#97]

I haven't tried the 888s and even if the tire is not as good as the RA1s I'm not faulting Toyo for the current situation because when I coached softball many years ago and there were complaints about the field or umpires I reminded my players that both teams used the same field and same officials... that said I feel like NASA dropped the ball by changing the playing field allowing competitors to compete on DIFFERENT fields (tires)...

Me too...but more of my point is that if I am going to spend money on redeveloping my car, I would like it to be faster...not as fast or slower, AND get 1/2 the life out of the tire while paying $40 more per tire.... Hell, if that is the case, I might as well run AIX and get hoosiers. that's all....

[Wirtz]

Jeff, I heard there is a shop on Mopac that shaves tires in Austin. Never used them, might be an internet rumor. Riethmeyer's auto repair. Let me know if you find someone, I have a set to shave. http://www.howiesays.com/index.html
Chuck
CMC #14

Hey Chuck, I finally got to go to this shop. They do in fact have a shaving machine. But they need to do it with the tire mounted on its rim, and they did not have a set of adaptors that could work with my rims. So I'm still searching. Not sure if they could do a Ford rim, think you would need to take it over and have them check.

Thanks,
Jeff

[jeffburch]

Pretty sure they all have to be mounted to shave them.
jb

[Rsmith350]

Boy, you guys must really think highly of me.

"Those in high power."
"The ivory tower."
"NASA corporate HQ."

If you ever visited NASA HQ, you'd be sorely disappointed. hehehehe
We're all just a bunch of good guys trying to enjoy the sport we love.

That's what's ironic in this whole thing.

And people keeping asking me "when are you gonna finish your car?" Why? so I can get pissed off like everyone else seems to be? Guys like Bryan L are the reason I wanted to race in this series in the first place....and now he's finding someplace else to race.......yeah....I'm in a huge hurry to finish. :cry:

[AI#97]

And people keeping asking me "when are you gonna finish your car?" Why? so I can get pissed off like everyone else seems to be? Guys like Bryan L are the reason I wanted to race in this series in the first place....and now he's finding someplace else to race.......yeah....I'm in a huge hurry to finish. :cry:

Shut up and finish building your car so you actually have something to bitch about! :lol:

[David Love AI27]

Boy, you guys must really think highly of me.

"Those in high power."
"The ivory tower."
"NASA corporate HQ."

If you ever visited NASA HQ, you'd be sorely disappointed. hehehehe
We're all just a bunch of good guys trying to enjoy the sport we love.

That's what's ironic in this whole thing.

And people keeping asking me "when are you gonna finish your car?" Why? so I can get pissed off like everyone else seems to be? Guys like Bryan L are the reason I wanted to race in this series in the first place....and now he's finding someplace else to race.......yeah....I'm in a huge hurry to finish. :cry:

DUDE... Hurry up... Its Hallett... Big car count... fun on the track... more fun off the track... I wouldn't miss Hallett....

[Jeremy Gunter]

And people keeping asking me "when are you gonna finish your car?" Why? so I can get pissed off like everyone else seems to be? Guys like Bryan L are the reason I wanted to race in this series in the first place....and now he's finding someplace else to race.......yeah....I'm in a huge hurry to finish. :cry:

:twisted: Somebody is scared! :twisted:

[ShadowBolt]

And people keeping asking me "when are you gonna finish your car?" Why? so I can get pissed off like everyone else seems to be? Guys like Bryan L are the reason I wanted to race in this series in the first place....and now he's finding someplace else to race.......yeah....I'm in a huge hurry to finish. :cry:[/quote]

BL has found a different series to run with? WTF?


JJ

[GlennCMC70]

i talked w/ Bryan just a few days ago. he didnt mention anything to me about this.
sorry, but i dont believe it.
Ross, get the car done. you either want to race or you dont. if you do, then nothing should stand in your way.

[Todd Covini]

It's true. Bryan has joined another series.
I saw him post up on this other championship forum. :wink:

http://www.ksusa.org/Forum/portal.php

[David Love AI27]

Glad to know BL can always say he got his start with us at TWS...

[Fbody383]

And people keeping asking me "when are you gonna finish your car?" Why? so I can get pissed off like everyone else seems to be? Guys like Bryan L are the reason I wanted to race in this series in the first place....and now he's finding someplace else to race.......yeah....I'm in a huge hurry to finish. :cry:

Dude, next year we're all in the same boat and besides it's a HOOT!

It's ALL good: being on track, getting "bumped," fixing the "bump," eating smoked potatoes and brisket, being on track, drinking Keystone, kneeboarding in the parking lot, being on track, learning how to setup for different tires, being on track...

Get your can out here; the Duece needs more heat.

PS - Let me know if I can help with the car; mine has managed to pass tech so far. :D

[BryanL]

Tap the break. Ross-have you been sniffing too many paint fumes in the shop? Quit worrying about the bling on the car and get it running. Do you have me confused with Super Touring MFW? I was at TWS cutting it up.
Seriously, I have considered doing some other events and did have all my decals off. But I'm not leaving this group. I could see myself skipping to do some testing and work on my driving but all the intentions would be so I could dust Shadowbolt.

I love the link Todd. But those guys have it too easy with their custom boards. I'm thinking I will show up to one of their events with my cooler lid and some cutoff jean shorts and show them how its done. Maybe Bud Light would sponsor me then.
Did someone say something about about a lake at Hallett?

[AI#97]

Did someone say something about about a lake at Hallett?

We could probably get the tow truck to do laps around the shore with the Hook out to you out in veronica lake!



hope your wife doesn't read that one!

ST2 is out for hallett. Not enough cake eaters to justify buying hoosiers....so I decided to find some RA1's and go kick ass at nationals instead. Hopefully my order goes through on Monday! :twisted:

[michaelmosty]

Bryan, if Bud Light doesn't sponsor you I will try my connections at Keystone! :wink: