As the Toyo Turns - a new made for TV drama.......

[GlennCMC70]

anyone not clear on what they can and cant run for TWS in 2 weeks?
if we are all clear, i'll see if i can make a phone call get it to flip flop two or three more times by Easter. :roll:

i'll be making up some "R888" decals for the tires just in case. i purcased a new tire groover (cheaper than a set of tires) and will only be charging $50 a tire to make your RA1's legal if R888's are manditory by then.

[jeffburch]

I'm voting with my wallet, <yawn>, see ya'll in Ok.
jb

[AllZWay]

I can't get RA1's before TWS, but I probably have enough tires for that weekend.

It looks like I will have to eat a set of 888's, since it isn't likely they use this tire next year....but as the world turns...who knows what will be the tire next year...or even later this year.

We dang sure know NASA doesn't have a clue. :roll:

[GlennCMC70]

well i have a new set of R888 that havent even been mounted. if they change the spec tire back to an RA1, they better swap me for my R888.

[AI#97]

Where are you guys getting the R888 won't be the tire for next year? I REALLY don't see that happening. To put the RA1 back into production would be too costly in dollars and embarrassment for Toyo, especially being so public in WC... expect an R888 revision, but I would bet the RA1 stays out of production.

[BlueFirePony]

I agree with Matt.
Unless the pro series have a serious issue that surmounts the "Tony vs Goodyear" level, they won't change.
Judging by the WC race at Sebring so far so good for Toyo. But the year is young.

[David Love AI27]

Too bad we can't boycot and stop buying toyos, cept for those running at nationals... freeze the standings as of now... and everbody run what you brung for the rest of the season... Goodyears, Kuhmos.... whatever...

OK so what is going on in AI... is the car count gonna be worth it for me to run toyos in AI or do I thow on any ol' tire and run AIX???

[AJ@PST]

This waffling is really rediculus for ALL involved. If I can return my R888s I will let you all know. If I can get RA1s, I will let you all know. If R888s are madatory then I have them.... I think you all understand how difficult NASA and Toyo are making it for the dealers/distributors to support the racer.

I plan to knock on Toyo's doors and excersize my patience....

[mitchntx]

This waffling is really rediculus for ALL involved. If I can return my R888s I will let you all know. If I can get RA1s, I will let you all know. If R888s are madatory then I have them.... I think you all understand how difficult NASA and Toyo are making it for the dealers/distributors to support the racer.

I plan to knock on Toyo's doors and excersize my patience....

AJ, please keep us informed on your situation.

I will certainly go forward with my commitment to PST. However, if Toyo will give allowances, then that would make many of us happy.

The chances of the R888 being the spec tire after all this negative publicity is highly unlikely.

[AI#97]

The chances of the R888 being the spec tire after all this negative publicity is highly unlikely.

I disagree Mitch....those at the TOP of NASA don't believe there is a problem. Until they are swamped with complaints about the tire or the cost to reconfigure our cars to run it successfully, backed up with REAL data showing them to be truly inferior, they aren't going to take action. I have tried but they think I am a no talent wack job from Texas that just likes to bitch... :roll:

So far, JWL has told me I need to go softer on the springs to make the tire work. Well, how the hell do you do that on an Aero car that would then be slammed into the pavement? I suppose you could raise ride height but now I need badass shocks/struts to control the excessive wheel travel and weight transfer and that would make it worse on what is effectively a street tire.

From what I have seen with my own eyes and been given by the powers that be, They are basing all of their "data" on cars running smaller tires (14" and 15" wheels). And seeing those cars/tires after running them, we are NOT getting the same results on the 17" tires. It's almost as if there are two different carcasses and two different compounds for the respective sizes.

[AJ@PST]

The chances of the R888 being the spec tire after all this negative publicity is highly unlikely.

I disagree Mitch....those at the TOP of NASA don't believe there is a problem. Until they are swamped with complaints about the tire or the cost to reconfigure our cars to run it successfully, backed up with REAL data showing them to be truly inferior, they aren't going to take action. I have tried but they think I am a no talent wack job from Texas that just likes to bitch... :roll:

So far, JWL has told me I need to go softer on the springs to make the tire work. Well, how the hell do you do that on an Aero car that would then be slammed into the pavement? I suppose you could raise ride height but now I need badass shocks/struts to control the excessive wheel travel and weight transfer and that would make it worse on what is effectively a street tire.

From what I have seen with my own eyes and been given by the powers that be, They are basing all of their "data" on cars running smaller tires (14" and 15" wheels). And seeing those cars/tires after running them, we are NOT getting the same results on the 17" tires. It's almost as if there are two different carcasses and two different compounds for the respective sizes.


For what it is worth- I have seen the need to soften setups for the R888, I dont think that Bad-Ass shocks are necessary yet, just different valving in what you have. You just have to know a creative shock builder :wink:

[Hood]

http://www.ast-usa.com/

[AJ@PST]

My 4th gen shock package will be available this month! I will launch it on our web when available.

http://www.performancespeedtech.com/store/Results1.asp?Category=80

[mitchntx]

From a performance standpoint, you very well cuold be right, Matt. And I still think the triple 8 has a lot of potential. Just not at where have all found ourselves chassis-wise with the RA1.

But from a marketing and a trustworthiness standpoint, Toyo has a long row to hoe to win back the trust we all had in their products.

[AI#97]

From a performance standpoint, you very well cuold be right, Matt. And I still think the triple 8 has a lot of potential. Just not at where have all found ourselves chassis-wise with the RA1.

But from a marketing and a trustworthiness standpoint, Toyo has a long row to hoe to win back the trust we all had in their products.

yeah, but I think the only way to make the 888 successful in AI/CMC, you are going to have to get the cars down to 2500lbs, not practical. The ONLY cars in NASA that have been able to match their previous lap times with minor changes all weigh less than 2500lbs with driver. Our V8's with 3000+ lbs behind them are overheating these tires and hence why we can't get the performance out of them. Smooth driving and no sliding is the key. We can do that in AI but I think CMC is going to be an entirely different animal. I also don't see myself spending $5 to 10k to get my weight down to 2700lbs either just to make this tire work for us as is.

Also, looking at the rolling contact patch of a 235/15 on a miata, and a 255/275 on a heavy mustang and there is only 3/4" difference in width....if that. Try putting another 600 to 800lbs on that 3/4" with twice/thrice the power at the wheels and you see the reason for the heat!!!

[mitchntx]

Excellent points and justifiable assumptions. But until someone tries it, its all speculation a this point.

BUt again, your points about weight and driving style are valid. This tire will not work sliding big ole heavy V8s.

We very well might see a revised version of the R888. The issue I see with that is how will I know which R888 is R1 and which is R2.

[Alien]

There is plenty of debate on whether the performance of the 888 can reach the RA1 wik chassis changes, but to me it seems everyone involved agrees that the 888's won't last as long as the RA1s.

That said, I think the 888's are here to stay for next year.

At a higher initial cost and the fact that we will have to replace them more often, it sure won't be hurting TOYO's pocketbook in this "entry-level budget" racing series.

[AI#97]

We very well might see a revised version of the R888. The issue I see with that is how will I know which R888 is R1 and which is R2.

Don't buy any for two years! ;)

[ShadowBolt]

The chances of the R888 being the spec tire after all this negative publicity is highly unlikely.


I agree. If anyone thinks that NASA made this decision just to help out the guys with left over RA1's please share what your smokin. I've read about Spec Miata guys that said they were having to shave the 888 to 1/16" (2/32nds for you fraction challenged) to make them fast and then they were going through more than one set in a weekend of racing. My bet is lack of longevity is what is causing this. I do believe NASA would try and help us not to have to buy tires every race weekend.


Also I'm guessing the 888 made for CMC is not the same tire that W/C cars are running.
JJ

[jeffburch]

My 2 sets (8 tires) are all the GG compound.
Supposedly there are 2 others that are softer.
Dunno.
Will they buy them back or swap me for something better?
Doubt it.
jb

[marshall_mosty]

How do you tell what compound you have? I was told that the 888 compound was the same as the RA1.

[evarner]

I was told that the 888 compound was the same as the RA1.

Which one did you take? :lol: :lol:
http://www.gojivibrantlife.com/images/kool6.jpg

[marshall_mosty]

I like the Kool-Aid pops.

[Jeremy Gunter]

http://tirefinder.toyotires.com/survey.php

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Be Nice Guys! :twisted:

[AI#97]

http://tirefinder.toyotires.com/survey.php

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Be Nice Guys! :twisted:

For the record, you CAN type 4 letter words and it takes them! ;)

[AllZWay]

http://tirefinder.toyotires.com/survey.php
Be Nice Guys! :twisted:

Why be nice... :P

[mitchntx]

http://tirefinder.toyotires.com/survey.php
Be Nice Guys! :twisted:

Why be nice... :P

Really not necessary.

I'm confident that those in charge are doing what's needed for pure, wholesome refreshment.

http://www.gono.com/museum2003/museum%20collect%20info/kool-aid/ka2.jpg

[jeremiahkellam]

I'm not making a joke here...

I'm sure Toyo does lots of testing for product development, and I'm sure they rely heavily on teams from WC to provide feedback on new tires.

We could approach Toyo with the idea of them funding a club racing development program. Spec Miata and CMC are the 2 most contested series in Texas and probably the nation. These 2 series cover the spectrum of tire sizes and everything else involved (weight, dynamics, etc...). We have access to some of the best testing tracks in the country.

If Toyo is all about grassroots, they will at least listen to goods ideas instead of bitching.

Get a few experienced drivers from each series, do a number of test at different tracks, try everything allowable within our rule sets, get Toyo to pay the bill. The intial proposal is easy, developing a plan and estimating cost will take a little more work, but a simple write up is all we need at this point. We would just need a natioal director or 2 to back us on this.

Am I just a stupid rookie?? Who wouldn't want to be an official Toyo test driver?? Free tack time, maybe even some left over tires??...

[GlennCMC70]

JK - while your idea is sound and full of "good ideas", you are falling into the "rookie trap". the sad reality of it is, you see us as "grassroots" racers, but Toyo see's Speed WC and TC as "grassroots" racers. our level of racing will never generate that level of interest from Toyo.
if you feel strongly about it, i'll do what i can to help it get put in front of the right folks, but i think your ambitions are a little high.
not trying to be negative, just want you to know the reality of it.

[Todd Covini]

They are very good points, Jeremiah, but another challenge is logistics & convenience. Everyone's under budget constraints, and quite honestly it's easier for "Joe Toyo" and "Joe Racer" to hook up down the road at the local track and "get it done". Hence, why the majority of magazine, TV & testings are done in California. Travel & time is not an issue and it's convenient.

Now, if there's a regional Toyo office (not a distribution center) here in Dallas or Houston with engineering dollars to spend, we're onto something.

Lastly, these are great ideas for the NASA National guys to work and for us to volunteer to help with. We really need to work the chain of command.

Who knows...maybe they're already working on it and we're not even aware!

[jeremiahkellam]

I wasn't implying it should be done here in Texas. That would be cool. Hell, I wouldn't even consider myself as a tester. I was thinking more as a national effort. And if most of that happens in Cali, so be it. And like you say, it may already be happening behind the scenes and we just don't know it.

NASA could institute an official testing program to deal with tires (or anything else that may be speced in several different series) and have test drivers from each of those spec series.

Glenn, I agree that we may not even make a blip on Toyo Corp's radar, but in the US, the only road racing they are involved in other than national and regional club racing is WC and TC. Other than that, all they have is drifting and off road. With the exception of a couple autox'ers and TT guys, they have no road racing team drivers. And I bet WC and TC don't pay the same prices we do for tires. If they were to lose SM, CMC and what ever other spec classes at the club racing level, it would do damage to their motorsport bottomline. I think it may be worth a shot, if it hasn't (or isn't) already being done.

[marshall_mosty]

Who knows...maybe they're already working on it and we're not even aware!
Isn't that what got us into this mess in the first place???

[Fbody383]

Glenn, I agree that we may not even make a blip on Toyo Corp's radar...

Enough nice people, making enough polite calls will make more than a blip.

We could all mount up Sumitomo's, race AIX and send them a picture of 40 sets of worn out RA1s, politely of course.

EDIT: I know, "dayum rookies."