summary of Hallett on track incidents

[Al Fernandez]

In the interest of full disclosure (since we too are "the most transparent administration ever" :wink: ) your series directors want to summarize the on track incidents at Hallett and the repercussions from those. Clifton was very stern during the NASA driver's meeting, explaining that due to the nature of this track he would be stepping up the penalties for driving infractions. During the AI/CMC driver's meeting I echoed his statements and followed with explaining how we were particularly concerned about the "racing incident" side to side contact during overtaking and how contact during these could result in three lost positions for that race for the at fault driver and perhaps even a lost position for the not at fault driver in extreme circumstances. Of course not all situations are equal, but that drivers should expect this for botching a passing attempt.

There were two cases of contact with damage. In both of those cases the at fault drivers were disqualified from that session.

There were two drivers at fault of side to side contact during overtaking that resulted in no damage by the 50/50 rule, but still left substantial tire marks or a small wrinkle in a body panel. Actually there were three incidents, one driver was involved twice in the same session. As it turned out, both of these drivers failed to finish their race, therefore there was no room to move them back three positions. Both drivers received a stern talking, explaining how if they were not last already they would've lost positions.

There was one incident of side to side contact that left just a hint of a tire mark on a car's door. This was determined to be very minor and not deserving of a penalty. Simply put, it wasnt agressive overtaking or lack of patience. The at fault driver hasnt been involved in any contact in a year, further leading to the decision to give him a stern warning.

There was one case of contact that was not exactly side to side, it resulted in an interesting case. The cars touched on the sides of the bumper covers. When the first driver turned in his form it was evident that this was really a case of the accordion effect / jockieing due to cars up front and not of a botched passing attempt. The car had a slight color smudge on the side of the bumper cover. There would be no penalty assessed for this. Still, I wanted the other driver to submit his paper so I waited. And I waited. And then I forgot about this until yesterday when I was updating my Shit List. That driver has been put on probation for his next event for failing to report contact within 30minutes of the session. In his defense he thought this would be considered "bumper to bumper" and therefore not subject to penalty, but he was reminded that all contact needs to be reported to enable that decision to be made by those authorized to make it.

There were a couple of cases of direct nose to tail contact without loss of position or damage. None of these received penalties or even make it onto the Shit List since they are zero points contact.

[/i]

[Fbody383]

As it turned out, both of these drivers failed to finish their race, therefore there was no room to move them back three positions. Both drivers received a stern talking, explaining how if they were not last already they would've lost positions.

I was one of these and was not aware of the contact with Vogl until Al told me while I was changing the PS pump. You can see the contact in Glenn's Race 3 video around 2:06 and in the video it looks like enough contact to be felt.

First: Al/Glenn/Todd ~ in the future, do you want paperwork on this kind of contact? I expect the answer to be yes and the thought of getting it in never crossed my mind while trying to get the car ready for the next race.

Second: Al said "there was no room to move them back three positions;" on a normal weekend you may have been right. With the structure we used for Hallett one could argue the "last" place finish was earned with the DNF and that a further 3 position move for points accumulation purposes was warranted. Those additional 15 points might have cost me a Race 4 grid position but the guys that stayed perfectly clean earned their points and deserved the spot.

I'm very comfortable with the way you guys enforced the rules that were laid out at the beginning of the weekend; you don't always get enough credit for keeping order.

[mitchntx]

David's point is valid for this weekend's structure. Moving a person back three positions vs a DQ is a HUGE swing in cummlative points for the big race.


So there were only three incidents of contact that were arbitrarily deemed note-worthy?

If some one deserves more than a "stern talking too", I don't understand the reluctance to "make it sting" so that it ALL stops.

Bottom line ... if I botch a pass, have at-fault contact, it ought to screw my whole weekend. Afterall ... I screwed up some one else's.

Once that becomes the norm instead of wrist slaps, the casual contact will continue. Handing out "penalties" that have no real consequence is pulp fiction.

[kbrewmr2]

was this just for CMC or all of the group?

[GlennCMC70]

was this just for CMC or all of the group?

AI/CMC as a whole.

[JasonLiiR]

In my contact with Randy in race 3 I was not even aware of the incident until Randy asked me if we got together and after seeing the slight tire mark on the side of the car, we talked and determinded it was not bad enough to make a big deal about. We have spent so many other races side by side with each other and this being the first contact between us it did not effect our comfort level on the track with each other as we were door to do again the next race for a couple of laps. Also after we filled out the papers I also went and cleaned the rubber mark off of his car since I saw it as my fault for not completing the pass cleanly.

[Al Fernandez]

The CCR calls for side to side contact without damage as per the 50/50 rule to result in either no penalty or a simple reposition. The CCR definition of damage is a lot more lenient than most driver's. We decided to step that up to three positions lost and warned drivers accordingly.

Still, all situations are not equal. Two cars touching when they're next to each other on a straight is not the same as two cars touching because one decided to dive bomb the other through the bitch. Similarly, a driver not being involved in contact of any kind in over a year shouldnt be treated the same as a driver that already has six points collected on the Shit List for the 2010 season.

David: all contact needs to be reported. The default in our group is you report to me unless I'm involved, in which case you report to one of our other class or race directors.

[rleng1]

In my contact with Randy in race 3 I was not even aware of the incident until Randy asked me if we got together and after seeing the slight tire mark on the side of the car, we talked and determinded it was not bad enough to make a big deal about. We have spent so many other races side by side with each other and this being the first contact between us it did not effect our comfort level on the track with each other as we were door to do again the next race for a couple of laps. Also after we filled out the papers I also went and cleaned the rubber mark off of his car since I saw it as my fault for not completing the pass cleanly.

jason, I really enjoy racing with you, even if out of class. I will be mindful to ensure that we don't hold each other up if we are in the hunt with other in class cars.
thanks for cleaning the tire marks off of my door, but you forgot to armor-all the tires. :lol:
thanks for manning up in taking pride in your car and mine.
is it wierd that the old man is racing the young kid? just saying.

[BryanL]

Thanks for taking the time to address this for everyone that missed out on the fun. Though to be transparent shouldn't the list be posted and let everyone see the stats?
I know of instances in the past of people being upset about X drivers contact since they didn't know that X driver was on some sort of probation or something.
Since we all are just that missed phone call away from being in Nascar why don't we make it clear who got a penalty or suspension. Kind of like my run in's with Jeremiah Logano and his dad :D Sure hate I missed Hallett.

[Papa Kellam]

Happy Father's Day Brian.

Have a nice day!
:?: javascript:emoticon(':idea:')

[BryanL]

Happy Father's Day Brian.

Have a nice day!
:?: javascript:emoticon(':idea:')

Thanks Papa K. Hope you had a good one and hate I didn't get to enjoy your 60th. I haven't heard enough but I think you won the real shootout at Hallett.

[Fbody383]

I haven't heard enough but I think you won the real shootout at Hallett. If you call that "winning."

[Al Fernandez]

Bryan, several drivers have expressed their concerns about making the Shit List public. I could probably argue both sides. For the time being, I think the best answer is for the details to remain for use by the officials.

[mitchntx]

Bryan, several drivers have expressed their concerns about making the Shit List public.


Probably because they are on it. :roll:

[David Love AI27]

Bryan, several drivers have expressed their concerns about making the Shit List public.


Probably because they are on it. :roll:

nuttin' but net...

[mitchntx]

Knowing who is on probation and who has a propincity for carnage gives the directors an unfair advantage.

They know who they can fender and they know who to stay away from.

Dyno sheets, weights, logbooks are all "public". Why stop here?

[David Love AI27]

They know who they can fender and they know who to stay away from.


Have you SEEN the directors cars????? Not sure they really care WHO they "fender"... more a matter of WHEN...

Thanks for the assist....

[mitchntx]

What ever, David.

I don't think anyone in this group intentionally hits their competitors.

I do think there are varying levels of acceptability, though.

Personally, I've drawn a line and won't cross over it. If I find myself pulling over to let the "shit-listers" by, I might as well save a couple hundred bux a weekend and do DEs.

[David Love AI27]

They know who they can fender and they know who to stay away from.


Have you SEEN the directors cars????? Not sure they really care WHO they "fender"... more a matter of WHEN...

Thanks for the assist....


sorry... I was just kidding... guess I'll get back to being serious... Stick is back in storage see you guys at TWS... I'M OUTTA HERE!!!