AI/CMC 2010 Round 4 Points!

[GlennCMC70]

As always, the 2010 AI/CMC Points after the 4th Round are attached.
Contact me offline please to notify me of any errors.
I need the RM guys to let me know if I have the R/V status correct please.
Also, we are just below the 40 points collecting driver mark for AI/CMC. This is as always a good sign of the growth and health of our series here in Tx. We have every possibility to hit 50 if we get back some of the veterans who have not made an event this year along w/ the new guys on the radar. Mitch and myself will be putting together an AI car starting in a couple weeks.

[mitchntx]

Mitch and myself will be putting together an AI car starting in a couple weeks.

Oh yeah ... feel free to start without me ...

[JasonLiiR]

Can we just end the season right now? Those point standing work for me.

[David Love AI27]

Thanks Glenn... LiiR on top of CMC!!!!!!! AND moving to our home track... I know that, after drops, we are still way behind JW and Gary may be ahead, but it is really nice to be on top, if only for a little while...

[Fbody383]

Jeremiah <cough>third place at nationals<cough> better not get ROTY... again. :shock:

[GlennCMC70]

I forgot to update track records. I'll do that tomorrow when I get home.

[Rob Liebbe]

I just realized that I'm the only Mustang in CMC-Texas. Someone's gotta do it.

I also like Todd's point standing.

[jeremiahkellam]

Jeremiah <cough>third place at nationals<cough> better not get ROTY... again. :shock:

It's all Randy's - Go get'm boy!! Good job!!!

[Alien]

Actually, my boyee Wade is still in it too. ROTY drops 33% (8 races).

Wade leads Randy by a mere 3 points at the moment, but must score points in 6 of the last 8 races as he has has six races already with 0 pts.

Jeremiah is leading CMC2 after drops over Michael by 18 pts.

Wirtz is still in the lead by over 50pts, 2nd is close with LiiR having an 11pt advantage over me, with DF 4 pts behind that.

*edit*All this assuming we get to run all 8 races that remain*edit*

[rleng1]

Thanks Gary for figuring all that out. I knew Wade was ahead by a few points, and he is faster than me. but i bought some orange paint.
The last two race weekends will be fun for sure.
come on Wade ol' boy, get that car to the track.

[GlennCMC70]

New points file uploaded. Track Records tab updated. Jeremiah Kellam set a new Hallett CMC-2 track record w/ a 1:28.044.
Congrats.

[Wade]

Thanks Gary for figuring all that out. I knew Wade was ahead by a few points, and he is faster than me. but i bought some orange paint.
The last two race weekends will be fun for sure.
come on Wade ol' boy, get that car to the track.

:twisted: See you at TWS!

[rleng1]

How will I recognize you? 8)

[Wade]

I'll be the car in front of you all weekend (except on the inverts!)

[chris-CMC#35]

I need the RM guys to let me know if I have the R/V status correct please.

Glenn,

Shawn Graham - he's a Rookie.
Rich Vogl - he's a Veteran.

thanks
chris

[cobra132]

Hey, I earned the poll in R4. The only reason I bring it up is because it is the first time ever. FMR

[GlennCMC70]

Pole points only awarded for a qual effort.

[mitchntx]

Just another example of the man trying to keep you down ...

[jeremiahkellam]

Pole points only awarded for a qual effort.

Wouldn't placing the highest average over 3 races qualify as a qual efffort??

[Al Fernandez]

Interesting...we didnt discuss this ahead of time. I see nothing wrong with awarding pole points for R4 myself. Any dissenting opinions?

[GlennCMC70]

2010 CMC Rule:
9.2 Qualifying Points
The driver who is awarded the top qualifying position for each qualifying session shall be given an additional
point for each pole position earned added to their season total points after applying drops.

There was no Q2 qual session, and thus no Q2 points.
The same would apply in a case where a qual session was black/red flagged before a lap could be completed. Also would apply if the session was canceled due to weather.

[GlennCMC70]

AI Rules:
10 Points Structure
It is the intent of the American Iron Directors to have at least two qualifying points races per weekend.
Because of scheduling and other uncontrollable events, this quantity is subject to change. Please check
with your region as to the number of eligible races, which will count for season points.
Points will be awarded as listed in the NASA CCR. However, an additional 4 points will be added for
each pole position earned. An individual may only accrue pole points for the allowed number of scored
events for a given regional series (i.e. if 14 events are scored out of a total of 16 events available, only 14
poles can be tallied).

Seems this could allow for AI pole points to be awarded to Frank.

[rleng1]

I'll be the car in front of you all weekend (except on the inverts!)

your're killing me. it will be fun, fast and furious. i will not let up. :twisted:

[jeremiahkellam]

AI Rules:
10 Points Structure
It is the intent of the American Iron Directors to have at least two qualifying points races per weekend.
Because of scheduling and other uncontrollable events, this quantity is subject to change. Please check
with your region as to the number of eligible races, which will count for season points.
Points will be awarded as listed in the NASA CCR. However, an additional 4 points will be added for
each pole position earned. An individual may only accrue pole points for the allowed number of scored
events for a given regional series (i.e. if 14 events are scored out of a total of 16 events available, only 14
poles can be tallied).

Seems this could allow for AI pole points to be awarded to Frank.

Blah blah, you could just give it to him and the other "pole sitters" for race 4... :roll:

[GlennCMC70]

I could always do what I want, or I could follow the rules.
I too am a "pole sitter" for R4.

[jeremiahkellam]

I could always do what I want
It's not what want, It's what the people want... All I'm saying is that the grid for race 4 was determined by on track performance, to me that consitutes a qualifying effort that should be awarded points (and I wasn't even on pole...)

[David Love AI27]

Interesting...we didnt discuss this ahead of time. I see nothing wrong with awarding pole points for R4 myself. Any dissenting opinions?

Had we known of this up front we would have changed our strategy and qualified 1st instead of making it a challenge by working our way up from last...

[GlennCMC70]

I could always do what I want
It's not what want, It's what the people want... All I'm saying is that the grid for race 4 was determined by on track performance, to me that consitutes a qualifying effort that should be awarded points (and I wasn't even on pole...)

Best I can tell, the people want the rules followed. In this case you dont agree w/ the rules. Do we do this every time you or others dont agree w/ the rules? Or do we follow the rules?

This is a done deal for CMC. AI is another matter. Al and Todd can make that call.

[Fbody383]

2010 CMC Rule:
9.2 Qualifying Points
The driver who is awarded the top qualifying position for each qualifying session shall be given an additional
point for each pole position earned added to their season total points after applying drops.

There was no Q2 qual session, and thus no Q2 points.
The same would apply in a case where a qual session was black/red flagged before a lap could be completed. Also would apply if the session was canceled due to weather.

Absent the defined term of "qualifying session" it is possible to construe that the pole sitter for R4, i.e. "The driver who is awarded the top qualifying position... shall be given an additional point for each pole position earned..." The "qualifying session" for R4 was the cumulative point totals earned during Races 1 through 3. Nothing in "qualifying session" in the rule requires a minimum or maximum time, number of laps or even limits the occurrence of a session to one continuous appearance on track; clearly the AI rule is more succint.

I'm indifferent but awarding the pole point to the R4 pole sitter is another step to avoid sandbagging in this format since it counts towards season points.

[David Love AI27]

Interesting...we didnt discuss this ahead of time. I see nothing wrong with awarding pole points for R4 myself. Any dissenting opinions?

Had we known of this up front we would have changed our strategy and qualified 1st instead of making it a challenge by working our way up from last...

seems like I have lost my sense of humor... Sorry if I mucked up any threads... I really don't give a sh!t... see you all at TWS... I'M OUTTA HERE

[GlennCMC70]

2010 CMC Rule:
9.2 Qualifying Points
The driver who is awarded the top qualifying position for each qualifying session shall be given an additional
point for each pole position earned added to their season total points after applying drops.

There was no Q2 qual session, and thus no Q2 points.
The same would apply in a case where a qual session was black/red flagged before a lap could be completed. Also would apply if the session was canceled due to weather.

Absent the defined term of "qualifying session" it is possible to construe that the pole sitter for R4, i.e. "The driver who is awarded the top qualifying position... shall be given an additional point for each pole position earned..." The "qualifying session" for R4 was the cumulative point totals earned during Races 1 through 3. Nothing in "qualifying session" in the rule requires a minimum or maximum time, number of laps or even limits the occurrence of a session to one continuous appearance on track; clearly the AI rule is more succint.

I'm indifferent but awarding the pole point to the R4 pole sitter is another step to avoid sandbagging in this format since it counts towards season points.

You are correct. Selectivly omitting words from a rule will change its intended meaning. In this case, those words are present and shall not be ignored.

[cobra132]

F, I'am sorry I ever brought it up. I just thought we qualified for R4. Forgetaboutit. FMR

[GlennCMC70]

F, I'am sorry I ever brought it up. I just thought we qualified for R4. Forgetaboutit. FMR

I'll not forget about it. If you are owed the points, I'll ensure you get them.
I'll have to default to Al and Todd w/ this one. Todd is the National AI Director and Al is the Regional AI Director.

[cobra132]

Also, because I just want to be clear, does that mean no Toyo Bucks for R4 as it was not a qualifying event?? FMR

[AllZWay]

For the record... We had one race last year where no qualifying points were awarded, since we started by season points. Qaulifying was rained out.

Just another data point.

And for the record... I don't care either way.

[GlennCMC70]

A qual session is not required in order to have a race be a Toyo Race. Toyo limits us to 1 Toyo race per day.
We often repeat to the group that our Toyo races are those who's grid is set by a qual session, but in this case we noted otherwise. R1 and R4 were Toyo races and we explained that in the drivers meeting Sat morning.

[GlennCMC70]

2010 CCR:
20.2 Qualifying and Starting Order
Qualifying shall be optional at the discretion of the Race Director.

20.2.1 Random Grid / Special Cases
In the case where no qualifying is scheduled, or no qualifying results are available due to
error, the Race Director may order a random grid. A random grid will be determined by
a method selected by the Race Director. Qualifying results stemming from the random
method should be posted. Any grid formed by lottery or by random method, should be
marked “Random,” or “Lottery.”

[Fbody383]

Nothing in "qualifying session" in the rule requires a minimum or maximum time, number of laps or even limits the occurrence of a session to one continuous appearance on track; clearly the AI rule is more succint.

I'm indifferent but awarding the pole point to the R4 pole sitter is another step to avoid sandbagging in this format since it counts towards season points.

You are correct. Selectivly omitting words from a rule will change its intended meaning. In this case, those words are present and shall not be ignored.

I didn't omit them for the final analysis, just to show that the rule says the driver awarded the pole position got the points. We DID award the pole sitters for Round 4. It was not chance nor optional and the method was decided prior to the weekend.

Again, I think the existing AI/X rule has more room to award the pole points but that a strong argument exists for awarding them in CMC/2. I'm not even sure it's worth a rule revision but is worth adding to the checklist for next year as well as a plan for what to use if the "qualifying session" for race 1 doesn't happen. I don't think most folks care as long as it's understood ahead of time.

And you guys don't get enough credit for taking all the input on issues like this and making a reasoned decision ~ thanks.

[Al Fernandez]

Guys, dont hang Glenn for being a stickler. Remember, we as a collective have been the ones pushing for black and white language and pass/no pass enforcement over selective grey areas and logical enforcement. You cant have it both ways.

I agree with Glenn's interpretation of the written CMC rule. No qualifying session was run, therefore no qualifying point awarded.

I'll chat w/Todd about AI.

[rleng1]

But the standing start races were for Toyo bucks, right?

[GlennCMC70]

But the standing start races were for Toyo bucks, right?

R1 and R4.

[Todd Covini]

First off, kudos to Al and Glenn for following the black & white written rule. It's where we need to be and if the rule isn't clear, we need to clarify it.

In my eyes, a "qualifying session" is one where fastest time is set and pole position if awarded. Gridding on finishing results, inverts, age, car # or any other method other than "fastest time" isn't a qualifying session and as such pole position isn't earned...it's given to you.

Pole positions which did not take place in qualifying sessions are not earned and should not be given additional pole position points.

Now...with that said, let me test that with the other regional AI series directors to make sure we have a consistent understanding/past practice and I'll get back to you.

-=- Todd

[Todd Covini]

How did I accumulate negative 1,000,000 points anyway??? :twisted: