Round 2 Compliments and Concerns - post race dialogue

[mitchntx]

First and foremost, it was great to see both Nick and Morgan back home. For you newbs, these two were about as close to the founders of Texas CMC that remain. What you experienced this weekend was a direct result of the foundation laid by ravers like them.

:salute:

As usual, I was an "also ran", but had a blast in doing so. Great races within the races during all four races.

I worked Morgan hard for 1/2 dozen laps, he bobbled ever so slightly and I was able to sneak through. Then the roles were reversed. He made me spend everything I had to stay there. It was clean and it was fun.

The Kid (Bryan Leinert) ... well lets see if the smack talk continues. ;) I'm old, my car is tired, I was sick ... wait ... those are excuses for LOSING!

Corey ... you are a wild man.

Randy has officially taken the "Dukes of Hazard" award from Rob.

Steve must've been on meth all weekend.

I would comment on Jeremy, Michael, James and Glenn ... but I never got race with them. :cry:

Dave got some great photos and video footage. Can't wait to see it all.

[edrock96GT]

I had an "off" on the way home. :shock:

A semi was merging onto I35 and so the OTHER semi in the right lane decides it needs to move to the left lane...regardless of whether there are cars in the lane or not. Everybody hits the brakes, each one harder than the last and they all stop in front of me. I hit my brakes but it wasn't slowing down in time...so I did like I did in R1 and dove off into the grass on the left.

Not as easy in a truck pulling a car. :lol:

so I got it going straight and down to about 40 and brought it back on the track (I mean freeway) with no body contact.

....good thing I'm a race car driver. :oops:

[ShadowBolt]

I would comment on Jeremy, Michael, James and Glenn ... but I never got race with them. :cry:



Lucky for you.....you never got to race me either! I think the boy gave you all you wanted.


Just kidding but it was fun to watch.

There were good races all over the track all weekend.


And now for a litle more smack.....I kicked Crumpacker's ass all four races.
We missed you out there Sam. See ya at TWS.

JJ

[Nick]

It's nice to be back. Had a good time. :D

[mitchntx]

so I did like I did in R1 and dove off into the grass on the left.


But did you complete the pass?

Improving position due to accident avoidance is acceptable.

[ShadowBolt]

It's nice to be back. Had a good time. :D


Damn fine looking car Nick. Glad your back.


JJ

[GlennCMC70]

It's nice to be back. Had a good time. :D

Change that avitar.

[y5e06]

well, i must say, THAT WAS FUN!
I had 4 criteria for meeting my goal this weekend:
- no offs
- no contact
- finish mid pack
- no breakage

so, I had a benign off in rattle snake which means I only accomplished 3 of the 4, however everything else worked out quite well. Better than expected, in fact. so, yes, i'm very pleased to have made it out with you folks. The time spent around the group again was great. Tons of new faces and some VERY nice folks. There were alot of cars i didn't recognize, it is nice seeing 'new' iron.

oh, and only 1/2 of R3, Mitch? i could swear if felt like 2 hrs of battling.
based on the lap time diff comparison, i'd say I had my car stuffed all the way up under your bumper

lap time diffs:
Lap Diff (in seconds)
7 -0.004
8 1.384
9 -0.514
10 -0.058
11 -0.039
12 0.046
13 -0.069
14 0.076

less than 1/10th of a second here

By the way, the only wrenching I did on my car all weekend:
swap front tires L to R
wipe down power steering seeping (dang LT1's)
apply new windshield banner.
sounds about ideal to me....

[mitchntx]

well, i must say, THAT WAS FUN!
I had 4 criteria for meeting my goal this weekend:
- no offs
- no contact
- finish mid pack
- no breakage

so, I had a benign off in rattle snake which means I only accomplished 3 of the 4, however everything else worked out quite well. Better than expected, in fact. so, yes, i'm very pleased to have made it out with you folks. The time spent around the group again was great. Tons of new faces and some VERY nice folks. There were alot of cars i didn't recognize, it is nice seeing 'new' iron.

oh, and only 1/2 of R3, Mitch? i could swear if felt like 2 hrs of battling.
based on the lap time diff comparison, i'd say I had my car stuffed all the way up under your bumper

lap time diffs:
Lap Diff (in seconds)
7 -0.004
8 1.384
9 -0.514
10 -0.058
11 -0.039
12 0.046
13 -0.069
14 0.076

less than 1/10th of a second here

By the way, the only wrenching I did on my car all weekend:
swap front tires L to R
wipe down power steering seeping (dang LT1's)
apply new windshield banner.
sounds about ideal to me....



Change that avitar.

Yes 1/2 ... it was a 4 hour race, right?

All I know is that I saw a lot of red hood and very little black nose in my rearview mirror.

[AllZWay]

It was great to see such a large field of cars and especially great to see some guys have good weekends that haven't been with us for a while.

Those inverts were some of the most difficult racing ever. :shock:

[NASA13]

Amazing Turn out and very impressive driving.
I struggled with car issues this weekend, but I had a blast and I was more than a little impressed with many of you. Morgan, Mitch, Jerry and Jay, Mulder, Bryan WTG guys, clean and hard racing.
I will go door to door with you guys anytime!
I cant wait for TWS.
Congrats to the super fast dudes too, Proctor, Michael, Glenn, Alford, I had nothing for you guys all weekend without the help of some traffic.
Jeremy, you were fast too, but under your car most of the time. :oops:

[ShadowBolt]

Had a great time running with Bryan, Steve (wow he's getting fast) Jeremy, Corey, and Glenn (for a little while). Damn its a lot more fun when the car will turn both directions. Did not get a chance to run with Morgan or Mitch but maybe next time.


Also a shout out to Wade and Greg. In R3 the 22 and I were going at it hot and heavy and they saw us coming and let us by without affecting our race (or theirs) at all. Damn fine job guys!

On the inverts it's getting a little harder for the "super fast dudes " to get to the front. Great times.


JJ

[HoustonNW]

It was great to see such a large field of cars and especially great to see some guys have good weekends that haven't been with us for a while.

Those inverts were some of the most difficult racing ever. :shock:

If the inverts were "difficult" for you what do you think they are like for the slow guys? I need bigger mirrors! :lol:

Seriously, I need bigger mirrors. Where did you get those big convex ones Glenn?

[michaelmosty]

It was great to see such a large field of cars and especially great to see some guys have good weekends that haven't been with us for a while.

Those inverts were some of the most difficult racing ever. :shock:

If the inverts were "difficult" for you what do you think they are like for the slow guys? I need bigger mirrors! :lol:

Seriously, I need bigger mirrors. Where did you get those big convex ones Glenn?
http://www.ioportracing.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=L22530-33&Category_Code=MIR
Not sure if this is the best price or not but it was the first place that popped to mind.

[HoustonNW]

http://www.ioportracing.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=L22530-33&Category_Code=MIR
Not sure if this is the best price or not but it was the first place that popped to mind.

That's a good idea and I have a new one in the trailer. I tried to install it at MSR-H and the c-pillars on the Camaro do an effective job of completely blocking the view out the sides. I guess I need to try to return it unless someone wants it for a decent price.

[K Shaw]

I would like to thank the AI/CMC group for being the best behaved in tech all weekend.

Kind of wierd that the knuckle draggers have a better understanding of words like "left" "right" "brake" and not hammering down on the throttle when you are on the scales than the other more sophisticated racers. :evil:

Also I would like to appologize that the scales where not open saturday morning after the first warm up. Some of the new instructers where confused and thought that they could tech their students cars. Grid turned like 17 cars around and sent them back to us all at the same time.

Hope the wife did a good job helping you guys with the scales.

See you guys next time.

kyle

[marshall_mosty]

Also a shout out to Wade and Greg. ...they saw us coming and let us by without affecting our race (or theirs) at all. Damn fine job guys!

I have to give the same kudos out to Wade and Greg, but add a few others. I tried my best in R3 to give you guys your lap back so you would have an extra lap at the end...

[BryanL]

First I sure was glad to be back at the track and racing with everyone. Though I got a big bag of nothing when it comes to going wheel to wheel. Great job by everyone I was around. Sorry for rubbing on Rock in R4. Key thing is learning everytime out.
My hats off to Zimmer and getting a car on track after the last event. Also, to Landrum for getting a win in 70b's debut race. To Allford (I owe you some clamps-thanks) for leaving the slacker's and getting into the podium mix.
Thanks to all the cooks for all the food on saturday night. Maybe that had something to do with getting sleepy on grid sunday.

Let's keep up the attendance this year as its great to have so many battles going on within the group all over the track. Boy do those races last longer when you are racing people rather than by yourself.

[AllZWay]

Let's keep up the attendance this year as its great to have so many battles going on within the group all over the track. Boy do those races last longer when you are racing people rather than by yourself.

Michael, Glenn, Dan and I were talking during tech that those races felt like 45 minutes at least. :lol:

[mitchntx]

First I sure was glad to be back at the track and racing with everyone. Though I got a big bag of nothing when it comes to going wheel to wheel. Great job by everyone I was around. Sorry for rubbing on Rock in R4. Key thing is learning everytime out.
My hats off to Zimmer and getting a car on track after the last event. Also, to Landrum for getting a win in 70b's debut race. To Allford (I owe you some clamps-thanks) for leaving the slacker's and getting into the podium mix.
Thanks to all the cooks for all the food on saturday night. Maybe that had something to do with getting sleepy on grid sunday.

Let's keep up the attendance this year as its great to have so many battles going on within the group all over the track. Boy do those races last longer when you are racing people rather than by yourself.

No love from The Kid.

I gave you air ...

[rleng1]

I gave him gas........beans.

[GlennCMC70]

I'm a little worried our new and lesser speedy guys are driving above their abilities and more so during the inverts. Lots of spinning in places I never see spins, total 4 wheel brake lock-up and stuff. I'm sure part of it is that I get a chance to see it during the inverts, but do you guys always do it on the first lap and do it in groups?
I encorage everyone to start from their earned position, but realize if your having issues w/ a track, the car, or whatever, you can still move yourself to the rear. All of our guys will respect you more for it than for a wreck.
Settle down, drive your race, and latch on to the bumper of the first car that passes you. Find out why he beat you the previous race.

[mitchntx]

...

[Rob Liebbe]

Must build car, must build car, must build car......

[ShadowBolt]

I can make it easy for you to get by or I can make it hard as fuck.


How come you never make it easy for the 55?


JJ

[AllZWay]

Must build car, must build car, must build car......

Yes you do.. You should be ashamed of yourself. Wade built a new car in 5 weeks and you have had a year.

[AllZWay]

I can make it easy for you to get by or I can make it hard as fuck.


How come you never make it easy for the 55?


JJ

Or the #28... I swear Mitch turns up his nitrous whenever I get near him. :evil:

[Al Fernandez]

I watched all four races from the top of Dave's motorhome; awesome vantage point. Just awesome racing everywhere you looked. I saw few real "oh shit" moments (like Michael trying to make it three wide through rattlesnake) and a ton of heads up driving and folks giving room. Congrats to all of you.

HUGE thanks to everyone that brought food, prepared food, set out tables and chairs...it was the biggest party (headcount wise) we've ever thrown and it was smooth as silk. Those of you that didnt get with me on money, scan and email me a receipt. Thanks Dave and Revkah for making nights like this possible!!

Some other observations...

Steve Mulder and Dan Allford have become animals! You guys are in trouble now.

Morgan almost takes a win his first day back!! Way to go man.

There are so many flat spots on Corey's tires they've almost become round again.

Marshall set a new AI track record!! Congrats on that!

A group of Miata guys commented on how loud it gets when you guys get the three to go signal...and they were way down by the fence!

[mitchntx]

I can make it easy for you to get by or I can make it hard as fuck.


How come you never make it easy for the 55?


JJ

Or the #28... I swear Mitch turns up his nitrous whenever I get near him. :evil:

Aw shux, fellas ...

[nasa-rm]

HUGE thanks to everyone that brought food, prepared food, set out tables and chairs...it was the biggest party (headcount wise) we've ever thrown and it was smooth as silk. Those of you that didnt get with me on money, scan and email me a receipt. Thanks Dave and Revkah for making nights like this possible!!

You guys (and gals) made us PROUD!!!!!!

You did an awesome job with dinner. RB and I got many many compliments on your work cooking and we were so happy to see representation from all the various race classes, TT, HPDE and staff.

[mitchntx]

I deleted this for the good of the group

[BryanL]

I'm a little worried our new and lesser speedy guys are driving above their abilities and more so during the inverts. Lots of spinning in places I never see spins, total 4 wheel brake lock-up and stuff. I'm sure part of it is that I get a chance to see it during the inverts, but do you guys always do it on the first lap and do it in groups?
I encorage everyone to start from their earned position, but realize if your having issues w/ a track, the car, or whatever, you can still move yourself to the rear. All of our guys will respect you more for it than for a wreck.
Settle down, drive your race, and latch on to the bumper of the first car that passes you. Find out why he beat you the previous race.

I have to assume this is directed at me as I didn't see any of this. If there are others out there that feel this might be directed at them then I encourage you to talk to other racers to get their opinions, suggestions, and help. Everyone makes mistakes and everytime on track is a learning experience. What I did see was the normal swarm of bees going 3, 4 or 5 wide into the first turns which is commonplace in most of our races. I don't think it matters what track or whether its an invert or not.

Back to me-In race 2 I decided it was better to exit stage left rather than stab Wayne's rear bumper before the left hander into Rattlesnake. I could have taken it easier into Rattlesnake but then I would have had someone that was behind me trying to pass me. I could have locked up the front's, hoped it sticked, and likely touch Wayne's bumper. I decided to drive it off into the dirt so I didn't hit Wayne and got out of the way of the rest of the field. I also stayed moving in the grass and didn't try to come on track until everyone was passed me so I caused as little issues as possible with the race. Looking back I still think this was the best thing.

I realize I could have hit Wayne per the CCR and nothing happened as it would be considered a racing incident. Which I assume is the same thing that happened when Glenn pierced Mitch's rear bumper?

In Race 4 I made a bonehead move on Rock coming into Little Bend. I had a run on him and was beside him coming into braking. Well for the first time with someone beside me I locked up my front tires. Like most drivers do when they see and hear someone beside them locking them up he tried to give me room. We touched and Rock did a great job of keeping his car under control. Again I drove it off and didn't try to come back on in front of anyone and cause more issues. Once everyone was clear I got back on track. Disgusted with myself I decided to park the car and watch the race. In the heat of the moment I know that if I get by Rock then I may have some clear track while the podium whiners come through. I have learned from that mistake and realized there were several other things I could have done better. I apologized to Rock and hope to enjoy some Bud Light with him at TWS. At least our cosmetic damage was much less than the cars that finished first and second. Seems like the same thing anywhere and anytime on track.

In race 4 I did get to see some great racing all over the track with many great battles. I just think it is great that we have so many cars on track and so many people having fun regardless if you are racing for 1st or 15th.

If anyone has any issues or suggestions for me please let me know. I'm comfortable going wheel to wheel with everyone on track.

[GlennCMC70]

I'm not pointing fingers at anyone.
Exiting stage left is what should happen more often. And that is the point of this post. Drive it off, don't wreck it trying to save it or the position.
My contact w/ Mitch was my fault. I hit him before I had a chance to react. If I could have went off, I would have.
I guess it is just me. I saw alot of strange and scary stuff in front of me. I was/am concerned. Isn't that in the title of this thread?

[mitchntx]

I saw alot of strange and scary stuff in front of me. I was/am concerned. Isn't that in the title of this thread?

I think the point is we lesser speedy guys see that same behavior and scarey, concern-able stuff from the front runners EVERY race.

Welcome to our world.

[NASA13]

.... :D
Glenn took the fun out of it by not firing back

deleted

[NASA13]

:D :D

[Alien]

I'm not pointing fingers at anyone.
...
I was/am concerned. Isn't that in the title of this thread?

Personally, I think if this is the case, then fingers should be pointed. Maybe not in front of everyone at a drivers meeting, or in a post on the forum, but at least a PM, email, phone call or a one on one/two meeting with that driver. It's pointless to stand around and say, "that guy's over his head and doing it all wrong" or try make blanket statements. Unless that driver is told otherwise, chances are he's going to continue the same actions. Blanket statements like "lesser speedy" guys literally covers half the field and makes people start guessing if it's them.

I think everyone in this group is pretty good at taking constructive critisism. I think it's even more accepted by the new/lesser speedy guys than it is by the experienced/speedy guys. And it doesn't necessarily have to come from a director-type person.

Just my 2 pence.

- Gary R.
not new, but definetly not speedy

[NASA13]

True, The only way to address any possible dangerous situations on track is in real time, preferably immediately following the incident and ideally coupled with video.
Glenn is a fierce competitor and a valued safety resource, god knows he has seen his share of scary situations in the last 6 years.

Unfortunately with his recent history of contact, his generalized vague feedback was not well received. It is never received well when the kettle calls the pot black. I have known Glenn a long time and he always means well, usually just mis-understood.


Truth is, with 30 car fields, we will all have to look for possible dangerous situations including tank slappers and three+ wide anywhere on the track.
I think it just rubbed alot of guys the wrong way that it came from Glenn at this moment in time.
Let's address safety concerns directly and quickly and avoid generalizations that make the group feel less competent.
Hard conversations are a must in this group and we must all be prepared to have them and look at our contribution to any dangerous issue. It always takes two to tango we all have to see 'our part' with open minds and humility to get safer and faster.

"Lesser Speedy" is freaking funny. I cant wait for the Lesser Speedy Racing club to form. I will join.

[GlennCMC70]

Is there some trainning we could have to address some of whatI saw?
In the past (2005?) myself and Mitch and Nick R would always do side-by-side drills at any new track durring the Friday test day. It was also part of the comp school. This gave you the perspective you needed to drive side by side and not get caught going too fast or too tight or not tight enough.
I do mean well. I don't want to single anyone out. I hope my comments are enough for folks to take an honest look at themselves. If it applies, good, if not, carry on.
After watching the vids posted since the weekend, I have alot to say about some of you. I'll keep it to myself, unless the person it involves asks me. It isn't safety related, but rather along the lines of "your leaving a ton of track un-used and that results in time lost on track". Using all the track will result in better lap times and remove the unexpected braking points.

One thing I always like to tell new folks - drive it off pointed in the direction its traveling. I would rather give up 2 positions than 5. Looping it in front of a group will likely result in more than 5 positions lost and at worst, a wadded up car or two.

That is all. Sorry for making anyone feel "outted".

[GlennCMC70]

.... :D
Glenn took the fun out of it by not firing back

deleted

It's the med's.

[mitchntx]

I deleted this for the good of the group

[NASA13]

I thought Glenn drove kinda boring this weekend. What a sissy, except for when he hit me in race 4 for no reason, while I was minding my own business.

[ShadowBolt]

I thought Glenn drove kinda boring this weekend. What a sissy, except for when he hit me in race 4 for no reason, while I was minding my own business.



I agree with Mitch that Glenn drove very clean this weekend. I was behind him and Corey for several laps and Glenn had several times he could have divebombed Corey. I never saw him do it.


I will say I thought the racing was about the same as it always is at MSRC. I don't think it was much different than usual. The first few turns at this track lend themselves to "issues".


Screw it, Lets take off work tomorrow and go back to MSRC and try it again. I will run door to door with any of you. Being a mid-slacker I may only run door to door for a short while but what the hell.

I hope we don't lose in all this BS that last weekend was a blast and for the Jordans at least this was one of the most fun weekends ever! I'm still in the afterglow!


JJ

[mitchntx]

I deleted this for the good of the group

[JasonLiiR]

I honestly believe I have the problem of leaving too much room for the most part when going side by side causing me to lose too much speed as glenn was stating but I am comfortable running side by side or even three wide with anyone we race with. Gary and I ran side by side for 5 or so turns starting around little bend and running all the way through tombstone with no problems, Im pretty sure Nick R and I did almost the same thing also, but if anyone ever believes I dont leave them enough room feel free to message me. I believe seeing the "scary" stuff will help me make better decisions if I ever become the one potentially involved in it.

[mitchntx]

I deleted this for the good of the group

[JasonLiiR]

This is fun and constructive.......

[NASA13]

Glenn, as your unofficial PR consultant , I suggest you make all of your future correspondence through pantomime.

http://www.realloverocks.org/images/about_3.jpg

[mitchntx]

I apologize for my misinterpretation of Glenn's comments and dragging an otherwise constructive thread.

I was in the wrong.

Glenn and I "got a room" and we worked through our differences. His words are exactly as he intended.