Something to chew on

[mitchntx]

From where I sat, I noticed a couple things during the inverts.

Unlike the tire races where the Trophy Girls distance themselves from the mid-pack slackers who get a few cars on the lesser speedos, the inverts seem to have everyone hitting the same point at the same time.

One person legitamately checks up because some one might get out of shape or make a questionable move, then the domino effect takes over, collecting 1/4 the field or more. The initiating driver hasn't a clue what occurred because he's sped off into the distance.

When CMC was 8-10 cars and they were all going for the same apex at T1, it was manageable to a point. But now we have 20 cars going for that same point and there just isn't enough real estate to handle that many cars

And lets be honest ... no one is going to just hang back and have a reasonable expectation that they won't be involved. Right Michael? ;)

So my question to chew on is at what point do inverts become dangerous? I had Nick's driver's net in my windshield and no place to go.

Remember a few years ago when the whole field was inverted (CMC and AI) and there came a point in time where the carnage was over-shadowing the learning benefit? The decision was made to split the fields to reduce risk.

Will it take some one getting seriously hurt to rethink inverts altogether?

Just exactly what learning in taking place if we go six wide into T1? Everyone just holds their line and watches down the track for brake lights.

I'm not saying this just because my car got beat up pretty good this weekend. As a matter of fact, the damage that occurred during the invert was pretty easily repaired.

What I didn't like was seeing another driver's door at the end of my bumper.

And 'Because we've always had inverts' isn't a valid reason to keep them. 'We always had a max 230 RWHP' and there was a reason to evolve.

[mitchntx]

Let me be abundantly clear ... I don't think any one was at fault nor do I hold any ill will towards any one ... especially you Michael. You did absolutely everything reasonable you could do to avoid.

[K Shaw]

Not that my opinion counts as I have not made it back into a race car yet. However the three years I was racing CMC I really enjoyed the inverted starts. The most fun i have ever had was a inverted start with AI/CMC/Spec 944/Miata. Turn one at pueblo was complete chaos and the only contact in that race was a GTS car, a Miata and Raybob and Tommy bumping.

kyle

[mitchntx]

A new set of eyes always helps perspective.

How many cars were in the field?

[K Shaw]

Maybe 40 total. 3-4 Ai cars, 7 CMC cars, 10 or so Spec 944s, 10 or so spec Miatas with the rest being GTS and PT.

Mitch I know you have been to Pueblo. By the time the we hit turn 1 the Miatas and 944s where behind us. Entering turn one was AI/CMC and GTS cars. But then turn one is wide enough for 3 cars coming in but not going out.

[mitchntx]

So the whole field is inverted ... AI in back and SPEC944 in front?

It's at least 3/8 of a mile before the little kink and then another 1/8 or so before it begins to narrow.

The difference, as I see it, almost the whole field in within a couple few seconds of each other. So it's one large lump of cars funneling in.

The title says chew on it ... not abolish it. I'm just wondering if any one sees any potential.

[Casey_SS]

Mitch - I think your comments have merit and are definitely worth discussion. Thanks for posting this. I would hate to see inverts go away altogether though. What if we did something like this:

2-10 cars in class - invert whole class
11+ cars in class - invert top 5, top 10, or top ~50% of class

Not sure how this would play out in practice but in theory it might give the mid-packers a different experience i.e. when you invert the whole field front to back, mid-packers are still mid-packers. It also might help with the speed / line / experience differential involved with some of what you're talking about.

[Crumpacker]

FWIW, I love the inverts! It allows us to mix it up with drivers we wouldn't normally be around. The front runners get a chance to work around ALOT of traffic and others can try their hand at defending... neither of which is guaranteed during the normal grid-based starts. I've learned alot about when and where to pass by getting passed during inverts. With that said, I can see the need for this discussion. Inverts are inevitably more dangerous than standard starts.

and Mitch, you need to change your 'Location'

[K Shaw]

Correct Mitch. It was fun and only my 3rd race weekend.

[K Shaw]

If I remember correctly Powell and Mcombe where pushing the inverted starts as 3/4 of the CMC field back then had bit "Rs" on the cars. Including me.

kyle

[rleng1]

Inverts are the most exciting for me. FMPOV, T1 in inverts, everyone needs to show some patience and caution (remember, I'm old and a end-pack slacker), and then the real racing begins as the really cool guys begin to work their way through the pack. As Sam stated, you get to run with others you normally don't get to run with (more reason for some patience and caution), and you might even get a run on Glenn down the main straight.
I'm loving it.

[Fbody383]

I still like the inverts for many of the same reasons... different group of racers, awareness, forced focus on what I'm doing, etc.

Is it a points issue for the points chasers? An invert counts for the same number of points and same number of drops so the guys wanting to be at the top have to drive it hard.

Is part of the issue the limited laps so folks try to make things happen quickly?

I know it would be a pain but what if inverts were half points? So it would still help to finish up front but winning the qualified races would take on a new importance.

Regardless... on track "drama" much better than garage drama.

[BryanL]

So do a staggered start and make the trophy girls get a second green flag say a 1/4 or 1/3 of a lap behind the speed challenged and slackers? That would give everyone alot better exposure to racing and passing. With the increased car count the first half lap is such a chinese fire drill that its going to produce contact and eventually a melee. Right now I'm not so sure that the beginning of the inverts really help the slower drivers. It may help some with traffic, side/side, passing, and general chaos. But I'm not able to latch on to Glenn's bumper to try and learn a better line or how to take a corner a little quicker because of all the chaos. So I don't know that its helping them get quicker. That opportunity comes during practice and qual. And the slackers in the middle are just sitting ducks waiting to get squished like a cricket at TWS in the rain. The slacker can't get through if its already 3 wide yet you have this trophy girl trying to slide through like greased wrestler.

I do know of a driver at Hallet who thought they were ready to start at the front of an invert after completing rookie status. That driver was so freaked out they haven't raced again. I don't guess it had anything to do with me passing her coming out of the bitch on the inside with all 4 wheels in the dirt.

[AllZWay]

I really enjoy the inverts. There is probably a greater possibility of contact, but the fun factor is worth it to me.

[GlennCMC70]

I find it odd that this topic was brought up after MSR-C and I was told there was no problem. I attempted to seek an answer for how we could resolve the issue. I took some serious heat for it.

I can name names, but I really don't want to. So a few weeks ago I generalized and used the term "lesser speedy" to avoid shaming anyone. It is generally the same 5-6 guys who fail to maintain control of their car that results in contact for lap 1 T1 thru T3 of the inverts. I can drive behind these guys after a few laps in and they are fine. But during inverts I see unpredictability, jerky movements, abrupt inputs, guys missing their marks and things like that.
It was pointed out to me that I over enthusiastically encourage guys to start from their earned grid position for the inverts. I also encourage guys to move to the rear if they do not feel comfortable. Not a single driver in my 6+ years of racing CMC has anyone been looked down upon for moving to the rear.

Perhaps some of you should pick a partner and do side-by-side drills during practice for the next few events. Or better yet, do this stuff on the TnT Fridays.
As a group, we should seek a fix. If not, as a group, we are at risk of having these inverts taken away from us.

Someone posted above that it seems this is a product of increased car count. I agree, but there is more to it than that. Once upon a time we did invert the whole field. That meant AI in the rear of CMC (like R4 at TWS). The identified problem was not the invert itself, but rather the gap in lap times from front to rear. The CMC car on point was running (for example) a 2:12 lap and the DFL AI car was running a 1:54 lap. Now that we invert only w/in class, the problems have lessened somewhat, but seem to be on the rise again.



I don't pretend to know how to fix this. I do know that if we don't do this, the points race will be over by TWS in April for the most part.

Would a single file start help? Would doing a green for AI and a second green for CMC help?

(Flame suit on)

[mitchntx]

I find it odd that this topic was brought up after MSR-C and I was told there was no problem. I attempted to seek an answer for how we could resolve the issue. I took some serious heat for it.

I can name names, but I really don't want to. So a few weeks ago I generalized and used the term "lesser speedy" to avoid shaming anyone. It is generally the same 5-6 guys who fail to maintain control of their car that results in contact for lap 1 T1 thru T3 of the inverts. I can drive behind these guys after a few laps in and they are fine. But during inverts I see unpredictability, jerky movements, abrupt inputs, guys missing their marks and things like that.
It was pointed out to me that I over enthusiastically encourage guys to start from their earned grid position for the inverts. I also encourage guys to move to the rear if they do not feel comfortable. Not a single driver in my 6+ years of racing CMC has anyone been looked down upon for moving to the rear.

Perhaps some of you should pick a partner and do side-by-side drills during practice for the next few events. Or better yet, do this stuff on the TnT Fridays.
As a group, we should seek a fix. If not, as a group, we are at risk of having these inverts taken away from us.

Someone posted above that it seems this is a product of increased car count. I agree, but there is more to it than that. Once upon a time we did invert the whole field. That meant AI in the rear of CMC (like R4 at TWS). The identified problem was not the invert itself, but rather the gap in lap times from front to rear. The CMC car on point was running (for example) a 2:12 lap and the DFL AI car was running a 1:54 lap. Now that we invert only w/in class, the problems have lessened somewhat, but seem to be on the rise again.



I don't pretend to know how to fix this. I do know that if we don't do this, the points race will be over by TWS in April for the most part.

Would a single file start help? Would doing a green for AI and a second green for CMC help?

(Flame suit on)


Once is an anomole ... twice in as many races is the beginning of a trend.

The names? It's all in good fun and I certainly don't take the lesser speedy moniker personal. I hope no one else does, either. If you do ... it's Brian's fault.

I doubt any one will spend $200 for a TnT day to go do drills. Maybe select drivers for Comp School drills instead of asking for volunteers.

The desparity in laptimes at TWS this weekend was about 10 seconds. But I didn't qualify for R3 because I wanted to start at the back.
I even asked the grid person where my grid position was. ;)

[chris-CMC#35]

If I remember correctly Powell and Mcombe where pushing the inverted starts as 3/4 of the CMC field back then had bit "Rs" on the cars. Including me.

kyle

Typical Kyle - can't even spell my name correctly... ;-)

At our most recent Rocky Mtn race weekend, Spec 944 / CMC were in the same race group. Race 1 was gridded based on qualifying, we inverted the next two races, and then made Race 4 a straight-up grid depending on finishing order from race 3. For Race 4, we had two green flags, one for CMC and one for 944. Our race director that weekend saw some things during the invert starts that told him he should split us up for Race 4. It was a good decision.

This was at PPIR, which is a Roval-type course. Turn one is a loooonnnggg bank after the flag. The first lap was, from my perspective, total fun: complete mix of cars / speeds / driver skills. But it may not have been all that educational for the less experienced drivers.

Mitch makes a good point. It needs to be discussed, perhaps fine-tuned, perhaps radically changed, perhaps no change.

-chris

[nasa-rm]

I gave my input to Glenn and Adrian. I think it will be fun.

I also like the idea of starting split with the hot-shoes with a 20-30 second disadvantage.

If you want training and a learning experience, you MUST sign up for the extra session at Hallett. It's only $10. I will pretty much force all drivers on rookie status to participate.

[GlennCMC70]

It just hit me.
If we do inverts for fun...... why not add a major gap? BL said it and it wasn't till DB said it that I put the two together (invert/fun). Where do we set the gat? Mid field? This could be the solution. Good job BL.

[michaelmosty]

Bryan doesn't deserve any credit, thanks Dave for the great idea!! :^)

Where do we split the field? 50% / 50%?
How much gap do we leave? I think 30 seconds is extremely excessive but 10 seconds could be good.
If this is the case we might need a pace car, I'm pretty sure Glenn would try to creep up on the start. :^) (j/k, I would do the same thing)
Also, would there be a certain car count that these rules would come into effect?

I like the thought of this. I feel the inverts are great for experience but now that we have gotten around 15 cars / event it makes it extremely crazy. There has to be a solution that keeps the general standard but is slightly changed for better safety / competition.

[mitchntx]

Simple solution ... let Marshall pace the out lap for the lesser speedy doods and Boudy pace the Trophy Girls.

;)

[marshall_mosty]

Simple solution ... let Marshall pace the out lap for the lesser speedy doods and Boudy pace the Trophy Girls.

;)
That's the best idea you've had Mitch... :)

[Alien]

I also like the idea of starting split with the hot-shoes with a 20-30 second disadvantage.

The only issue I see with this, is when your typical hotshoe has a problem in race 1 and starts at/near the front of the invert. Now instead of having the field between him and the rest of the hotshoes, he's got the field PLUS 10-30 seconds.

Now, to 'correct' that, instead of invert based on finishing order, maybe do it based on fast lap of previous race?

[K Shaw]

Sorry Chris. Its been a long time since I have seen your name on a windsheild and I couldnt remeber the spelling. See you at Hallet.

kyle

[AllZWay]

I am kind of wondering why all the drama about the inverts in the first place?? To my knowledge there was only the one incident all weekend during an invert and while it was during an invert, it was not a direct result of the invert.

A car spun in front of the field... it happens and has happened in non-inverts.

Was there a lot more contact this weekend that I wasn't aware of???

[rleng1]

The starts are one of the coolest part of racing, for the drivers and especially for the fans. If racers are lined up properly (no laying back to make a run or jumping the start), with approximately the same HP and TQ, you would think that no one would have a real advantage until you hit brakes (or not for some of the cool guys). having staggered starts is nuts and takes away from the art of racing. people have to learn to maintain, and not drive like it is all or nothing into T1. Work your way through the field and enjoy strategically passing someone.
If you haven't figured it out yet, by 2 laps in, the field is at its usual place.
Mitch, I appreciate you coming back to play with us, until my off in race 4.

[mitchntx]

I am kind of wondering why all the drama about the inverts in the first place??


Don't make it into something it's not. I just made an observation, wanted to see some dialogue about it to gauge and move forward.

4 wide going into T3 while exciting, has some risk.
If it were just about those 4 willing to go 4 wide, then so be it.
But there is a lot of collateral damage associated with it.

I wasn't at Houston, so I can't speak to the first weekend.
But at Cresson a spin at T1 on invert resulted in at least my rear cover and Glenn's cover sustaining damage, none of which involved the spinning car.

This weekend, at least two rear covers, a headlight bezel and door made the list.

So I think it merits a look-see. If nothing changes ... OK. At least we dialogued.

[MikeP99Z]

Australian Chase.

[Crumpacker]

Australian Chase.

+1

[BryanL]

Sorry Chris. Its been a long time since I have seen your name on a windsheild and I couldnt remeber the spelling. See you at Hallet.

kyle

So we have another spelling challenged racer to go with Glenn. (LOL) Look on the right and there is an 'ABC' with a green checkmark for spellcheck. Sorry-couldn't resist.

[K Shaw]

So we have another spelling challenged racer to go with Glenn. (LOL) Look on the right and there is an 'ABC' with a green checkmark for spellcheck. Sorry-couldn't resist.

LOL. I before E except after C.

you guys are funny. I love it.

kyle

[Waco Racer]

I can't wait until the next race. There will be some interesting tech infractions reported!

[AllZWay]

Don't make it into something it's not. I just made an observation, wanted to see some dialogue about it to gauge and move forward.


I was mostly wondering if there was more than I saw. A spinning car is not limited to just inverts was my point.

[K Shaw]

I can't wait until the next race. There will be some interesting tech infractions reported!

ah ha ha. I'm not that much of a jerk. Well maybe. Nah not really.

kyle

[GlennCMC70]

I can't wait until the next race. There will be some interesting tech infractions reported!

Care to share what this is all about?

[Waco Racer]

Racers making fun of the Tech Inspector. Why, nervous?

[Al Fernandez]

Never make fun of the tech guys or the RD!

Good dialogue. Differential speed worries me more than total car count. I think we need to focus more on ensuring the speed demons are not gaining as much prior to T1 because they know how to, ummm, time the start. :)
How about:
At the start of a flying start race, when the green flag is displayed, competitors must maintain the two by two grid formation, and may not begin initiating a pass until they cross the starting line.

[MikeP99Z]

At the start of a flying start race, when the green flag is displayed, competitors must maintain the two by two grid formation, and may not begin initiating a pass until they cross the starting line.

-1

[michaelmosty]

-2
If someone misses a shift then everyone behind them piles up and worse crap happens.

[K Shaw]

Dont worry I can take it.

[Alien]

-3

I didn't realize how bad my engine issues were unlike the start of R2. I usually get decent starts, but I was puuuuulled on by everyone in that one (hence voluntarily starting at the back for R3 & R4). I wouldn't want everyone to have to stay in line before S/F.

[BlueFirePony]

-2
If someone misses a shift then everyone behind them piles up and worse crap happens.
-1 + whatever the number is before me ;) ...Michael makes a really good point.
I think finding the right timing for a split start (20 seconds?) would localize the impact of a SNAFU to the group where it occurs and give the corner workers time to flag the following group. Perfect? maybe not but it seems to take the edge off the situation whether its a full-field invert of class-invert.

[Alien]

I think a true split start is a bad idea. I'm here to race, be it for 14th place or 4th. You pick an arbitrary number of cars to split, someone everytime will now be 20 seconds back on the guy they were running the same lap times as the race before.

I think the only real, fair way to minimize the number of cars entering T1 is a single file start. Kinda takes a bit of the trill out of it tho.

[Al Fernandez]

Good, I'm glad gut reactions are that what amounts to a delayed start is no good. Besides, the incident this weekend happened in T3, long after the dreaded potential T1 pileup. :) Just keeping the conversation going...

Personally I think splitting the group is also a bad idea.

[rleng1]

Splitting is bad idea, as well as single file starts.
Patience and caution need to be in your helmet, not to the wind.
Man needs to know his limitations.

[Crumpacker]

Splitting is bad idea, as well as single file starts.
Patience and caution need to be in your helmet, not to the wind.
Man needs to know his limitations.

+1

Brilliant Mr. English!

[BlueFirePony]

We split between AI and CMC now don't we? So all we are debating is how much?
Reminds me of an interchange between Churchill and Lady Astor...

[ShadowBolt]

As a slow guy that used to be even slower and used to start at the front of the pack in inverts, part of the problem is driving over your head in lap one. Several times I went way deeper than normal just because Michael was beside me or I was trying to stay with James through turn one two or three. It is real easy to drive over your head just keeping up with the crowd at the start of an invert. I remember how mad I was at JB for hitting me in the rear going into turn three on the first lap at TWS my first year. He said he could not believe I hit the brakes when I did. Still his fault but last year I found out how easy it is when Wade did the same thing to me. I did not hit him but flat spotted two tires and drove out into the dirt right of turn three entry. You have guys driving over their heads (I did it) and the Trophy girls running balls to the walls trying to distance themselves from the other fast guys. This can be a problem, but it sure is fun!

JJ

[mitchntx]

I really appreciate everyone's input. this kind of dialogue goes a long way to bringing every one a little closer to center.

So what I've read and understand is ...

Inverts are good in theory.
They promote experience outside the normal circles of influence.
They make better drivers out of every one
If you aren't sure about being upfront, then ask the grid person what grid spot you belong in. ;)
Be honest with yourself and don;t allow outside influences to cloud good judgement
No split starts. No split inverts.
Patience from every one on track is key.

Did I miss any thing?

[BlueFirePony]

...
No split starts. No split inverts.
...
Did I miss any thing?
Hold on there professor, I'm still chewin' ;)
No splits means not even between classes? Meaning Michael and Glenn are on my bumper at the start?
If so, I am fine with that but I am gonna need to practice getting real wide...don't want any of that out-of-class racing at lap 1 turn 1 right?

[Alien]

Brain, I'm pretty sure the split discussion is within class, the lesser speedy guys vs trophy girls in the same class.

[BlueFirePony]

Brain, I'm pretty sure the split discussion is within class, the lesser speedy guys vs trophy girls in the same class.
In that case split starts are stupid ;)

[mitchntx]

Hold on there professor, I'm still chewin' ;)
No splits means not even between classes? Meaning Michael and Glenn are on my bumper at the start?
If so, I am fine with that but I am gonna need to practice getting real wide...don't want any of that out-of-class racing at lap 1 turn 1 right?

Glenn and Michael rarely start at the front on inverts.
Likewise, on inverts, I bet Marshall and Frank will have something to say about you starting at the back.

One last thing ... if you are in the back of AI and are concerned about out of class racing going into T1, chat with the CMC pole sitter and ask for a little more gap than just 1 row of ghost cars.

[BlueFirePony]

Glenn and Michael rarely start at the front on inverts. True that.


Likewise, on inverts, I bet Marshall and Frank will have something to say about you starting at the back.
Saying ain't doing
says the guy that gives up the lead on the first lap


One last thing ... if you are in the back of AI and are concerned about out of class racing going into T1, chat with the CMC pole sitter and ask for a little more gap than just 1 row of ghost cars. Great advice. Thanks!

[GlennCMC70]

Glenn and Michael rarely start at the front on inverts.
Likewise, on inverts, I bet Marshall and Frank will have something to say about you starting at the back.

One last thing ... if you are in the back of AI and are concerned about out of class racing going into T1, chat with the CMC pole sitter and ask for a little more gap than just 1 row of ghost cars.

Check out the R3 Vid David G put up. The gap between AI and CMC (set by the pole sitter of CMC) was stupid huge. To say I did this for AI would be a lie - I knowingly did it for CMC (myself).

[CSG]

As a new guy who has not even gotten his comp license yet my opinion does not really matter, but the inverted starts scare the hell out of me. I'll learn the fast guy's lines when they lap me.

[Adam Ginsberg]

As a new guy who has not even gotten his comp license yet my opinion does not really matter, but the inverted starts scare the hell out of me. I'll learn the fast guy's lines when they lap me.

Don't let it scare you. Use it as a means to further your racing skills. If you get passed during an invert, follow the folks who passed you - you'll learn more than you can imagine.

Inverted starts are no more "dangerous" than any other start in racing. It's all up to the loose nuts behind the wheel(s).

[K Shaw]

As a new guy who has not even gotten his comp license yet my opinion does not really matter, but the inverted starts scare the hell out of me. I'll learn the fast guy's lines when they lap me.

My first inverted start was on the weekend after I got my comp license. I was pretty nervous on the warm up lap. After we piled through turn one I was like "really, that wasnt bad lets do it again". Ever since I looked foreward to the inverted starts. It always gave me a chance to race with the guys with more money and skill.

kyle

[K Shaw]

My first rain race had me a little scared. It started snowing in grid and none of us at the time had wipers. AFter the second lap I found my groove and started passing guys that where usually faster than me. Dont let the first time scare ya too bad. You just may find it fun.

kyle

[mitchntx]

As a new guy who has not even gotten his comp license yet my opinion does not really matter, but the inverted starts scare the hell out of me. I'll learn the fast guy's lines when they lap me.

I would be worried if they DIDN'T scare the hell out of you.

[rleng1]

Scaring.....yes
Crazy.......yes
Fun and exciting.......hell yes
Tips for inverts...1) tighten chest belts 2) check speed and what gear you are in 3) find flagman 4) knock down rear view mirror 5) MAT IT !!!!

[Alien]

6) Be predictable (when you're starting out anyway)

[Fbody383]

As a new guy who has not even gotten his comp license yet my opinion does not really matter, but the inverted starts scare the hell out of me. I'll learn the fast guy's lines when they lap me.
What if some or all of your first races from the back are in the rain and you're not the slowest car on track?

Respect the invert; or just get fast quickly and start them from the back.:cool:

[Fbody383]

Scaring.....yes
Crazy.......yes
Fun and exciting.......hell yes
Tips for inverts...1) tighten chest belts 2) check speed and what gear you are in 3) find flagman 4) knock down rear view mirror 5) MAT IT !!!! I hope I qualify ahead of you at Hallett. What have you done with the "old" Randy?

[AllZWay]

I hope I qualify ahead of you at Hallett. What have you done with the "old" Randy?

He started channelling that inner-Randy. :D

[Crumpacker]

I'll tell you what I'm scared of...

The 'inner' Randy.

[rleng1]

Just doing what my driving coach tells me. Thanks James Edward.

[edrock96GT]

Brain, I'm pretty sure the split discussion is within class, the lesser speedy guys vs trophy girls in the same class.

Did you just call him "Brain"? :D

[Waco Racer]

If this group has split starts within a class, I will never race in this group again. That is the most absurd thing I have heard in a long time. This is racing, period.

[BlueFirePony]

Did you just call him "Brain"? :D
"...
Don't wan't to be a Canadian Idiot
Won't figure the temperature in Celsius
See the map they're hovering right over us
Tell you the truth it makes me kinda nervous
..."

[jeremiahkellam]

I spoke with both Mosty and Mitch about this on Saturday. My gut feeling that was at some point we had to do away with the inverts. But after thinking a little more, it's just racing. To me, racing is all about anticipation, and whether it is the way your car handles, the condition of the track, or what the guy in front of you is going to do, you have to figure out how to deal with it (at 100+ mph). I think some of the faster guys have gotten used to dispatching the rest of the field in the first 2 turns and getting on with their race. But now with more "fast" guys and even more guys improving at a fast rate, it becomes something to deal with. I dont care what Mitch says, racing is racing, and when you roll it off the trailer, you are accepting the risk (love ya Mitch...). I'm not saying contact is acceptable, but it is inevitalbe. We just have to learn to deal with it before, and after it happens... Chew on that s&%t!!!

The MAN has spoken!! I WILL see you next year! Get your game up!!

[edrock96GT]

I agree with Jeremiah. I like the fact that safety, courtesy and professionalism are paramount in our series but I've also resigned myself to the fact that once I started racing, my car was never going to be pristine again. I went all last season without incident but have been tagged every event so far this year but I'm not upset about it. It's a risk I accepted. Luckily they have all been minor so as far as I'm concerned, they're not scratches..they're scars. :)

[mitchntx]

Gosh ... guess all my shit is for sale now. ;)

[jeremiahkellam]

Gosh ... guess all my shit is for sale now. ;)

Should of sold it about 8 days ago.... it would have been worth more!! ;)

[marshall_mosty]

I bet Marshall and Frank will have something to say about you starting at the back.
Yes... If you aren't in your 4-race "rookie" phase, grid where you qual'd and start where the invert puts ya... To be honest, I enjoyed the "true invert" of R4 more than any can imagine. I remember them from years past, but we did more "bumper cars" back then. Now that the main "bumping" happens due to driver error and not the dreaded "red mist", I'd love to see full inverts come back.

I don't think that anyone had issues with how Frank and I worked the CMC-2 field (and lone CMC dude)...

I'd love to do a full invert again. Maybe not at Hallett since it's a cross-over and I don't kow as much about the RM guys. I'm sure they are trustworthy, but I've heard some intersting stories of fist waving at apex curbing... :o

[nasa-rm]

BTW, Marshal - that is EXIT curbing where the angry AI stand. The apex is too safe as most AI drivers can't hit it anyways ;)!!!!


Full inverts for RM CMC is fine. Here is full invert with 944 in front and CMC/CMC2 in the rear. Starting at 1:00. Gotta love how CMC car is leading by 8 car lengths by Turn 2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWpaOkXefzc