NASA Nationals at Mid-Ohio

[Mike Bell]

Ok, there has been some discussion of this event coming up in September at Mid-Ohio and I'd like to get it started in earnest once again:

1.) Who already plans on going for certain?
2.) Race Car Tranport options/ideas?
3.) Local logistics at the track, hotel/food/fuel info?
4.) Pooling/sharing resources?

I'm still on the fence, I like the idea of going but I can't seem to come up with a realistic plan at this point. Taking a week off from work seems to be the only way I can see getting it done and that's probably not an option.

[mitchntx]

Same for me. Mike.

I have a week long seminar the week prior and a plant outage the week after.

Getting a week off seems impossible.

[jeffburch]

Me and Bev have the week before and week of off.
Just dont have the budget to race.
I bet the entry fee is around $1000.
We'll be there to help out.
Camp there at the track.

Waa waa waa.
:(


jb

[michaelmosty]

I won't be participating in the racing but I'm taking a good look into being there as a spectator.
Hopefully I'll be sitting next to Mr. Burch enjoying a cold one watching some kick ass racing.

[CMC17]

Anyone know what the exact entry fee will be for the Nationals?

[Mike Bell]

Guess it depends on how many "volunteers" they actually hook? That search has just begun, may be a few months before the know the final costs.

If ya gotta ask, then.......... :lol:

[CMC17]

I have two vintage bottle caps and a 1978 Oakland raiders football so far towards the entry fee. I guess if needed I could pull out the ace up my sleeve and throw in the Howdy Doody video on Beta.

[Todd Covini]

1.) Who already plans on going for certain?
2.) Race Car Tranport options/ideas?
3.) Local logistics at the track, hotel/food/fuel info?
4.) Pooling/sharing resources?

.

1) I plan on going for certain. I don't know where I'll get the money. I have to be in Valdez, Alaska the week after on business. I don't know if I'll have the vacation time to spare...but I'm going for certain. The current thinking is for over a week with travel time...Saturday to Monday.

2) My current idea is to rent a motorhome and trailer my car. I don't know where I'll get the money. But I like the idea of being self sufficient and staying in my rig on the road and at the track. I'd consider just the motor home and put the car on a multi-car hauler, but I think the cost will be more than the motorhome option and I want to bring my usual spares.

3) The track will have local hotel, food and fuel. I don't know where I'll get the money, but those things will be there for purchase.

4) I don't know where I'll get the money, so pooling/sharing of resources is a good idea. The list of pooling items would prolly be:
a) transportation
b) lodging
c) spares (you bring tranny, I'll bring spark plugs, he'll bring engine.)
d) others?

In any case...I plan on making this happen.

[Todd Covini]

Not that I know anything, but I think more details will be coming out after the 1st of the month.

Also, this will likely be the EASIEST Nationals event to qualify an entry for. After this one, I'd expect it to get a lit-tle tougher.

Food for thought.

-=- Todd

[Mike Bell]

Man, the thought of hauling my stuff up to mid-Ohio and NOT QUALIFYING is enough to make me sick. :cry:

You think they'll set a minum time or a max number of entries in the field?

[Nick]

I hope he meant 'qualify' as in running a certain number of NASA events prior.

[micah]

do we even have anyone in tx that has been to mid-o. if so i got lots of questions,track,hotels,camping,etc.

[Mike Bell]

I hope he meant 'qualify' as in running a certain number of NASA events prior.

I didn't even think of that, sure hope you are correct.

[mitchntx]

do we even have anyone in tx that has been to mid-o. if so i got lots of questions,track,hotels,camping,etc.

I think Mike P has at least visited there once

[MikeP99Z]

I've been there a few times.

Few free to chew on Kevin Mixon's ear about the track/area also.

Hotels in Lexington and Mansfield.

Track has fuel, also there is fuel in town.

Track is in the process of being completely repaved.

People do camp at the track, there are restrooms/showers, etc. Track has plenty of food, also grocery stores in town.

Mansfield has your normal array of car dealerships and major services if needed. Columbus and Cleveland are about 1 and 1.5 hours south and north, respectively.

[MikeP99Z]

If you've never been there, and you really want to do well at the National event - I would suggest taking the "Mid-Ohio School" at some point before the event. It cost around $800 when I did it, and it was quite beneficial.

The "local" racers from that region will have an advantage (although a little less now that the track is being repaved).

[Mike Bell]

Yahoo list for NASA TX racers discussing the Nationals event:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NASATxNationals

Out with one Yahoo list, in with another. :lol:

[Adam Ginsberg]

It's a shame we weren't permitted to do any 40 minute races last year, or this year.

The Nationals will be 40 minute races (http://www.nasachampionships.com/pdf/2006_Event_Regulations-4-1-06.pdf).

[CMC17]

I agree, Adam. Unless we run a 40min race prior to the Nationals, it's going to be very interesting to see how other's prepare themselves and equipment.

As it stands right now we don't even get 20min of racing in at a time. Eight laps is not enough! I vote for one of our races to be 30min. during the weekend.

[Todd Covini]

We already had that vote, remember folks?

We tried to move in the direction of longer races in Texas for various reasons and even had a crazy notion to run 40 minute races (hmmm) but due to the ineptitude of the series directors, the jihadists decided that 40 minute races were impossible and our cars and our bodies were just not made to run that long in a racecar. :twisted: This issue went over the series directors heads...over the race directors heads...and was worked at the regional & national levels, where they just laughed and said "Ooo-kay...what-eva you guys want!"

Let's try to avoid the whip-saw effects and stay on a given course guys. There can only be one Captain of the ship. Tacking back and forth is for wimpy sailboaters...we're on a freaking speed boat...I'd like to get straight to where we want to go.

<<sarcasm off>>

-= Todd

[Mike Bell]

Just because it is the "Nationals" doesn't mean I want to do a 40 minute race for the same reasons back when I called for a "Jihad" last time this craziness was brought up.

[jeffburch]

The Jihadist had sound reason.
He/they can barely make weight after burning 20 min worth of fuel.

jb

[Mike Bell]

Barely making weight is still making weight. Everything else is just excess baggage. 8)

[Adam Ginsberg]

Well, there are people from the NASA Texas region want to attend the Nationals. And, the races @ Mid-O will be 40 minutes.

Mike - how is a 40 minute race "crazy"? Amature series do 40min, 50min, 2hr, 3hr, 4hr, 6hr, 12hr and 25hr races.

Eric - 30 minutes is not enough to test out a car setup for a 40 minute race.

I won't bring the Pro races into our discussion, as none of us are pros ( last I checked, anyway ;) )

How do we get practice at racing 40 minutes if we can't do them in our region? Car setup, tire pressures, fuel requirements, driver setup, etc.....lots to think about in running a 40 minute race.

The reality here is if a NASA Texas racer wants to run a 40 minute race prior to the Nationals, they'll need to do it outside of our region, or with another sanctioning body. Doing so will likely force them to forfeit a NASA Texas event.

[Mike Bell]

Wow AG, if this wasn't so confusing it would be funny. ;)

40 minute races - as Todd said these were discussed and my reasoning back then hasn't changed now just because there is a "NATIONAL" event. TEXAS IS HOT, you've been there right AG? I'm not conditioned to run a 40 minute race nor is my car likely to enjoy the length either. That's why I say it is "crazy". YMMV. Sounds like you want a change but your counterpart TC just stated there isn't going to be a change - you guys not sync'd up on this yet?

BTW, I never went to any NATIONAL DIRECTOR on this topic. I'm not sure who Todd is referencing or how it ended up at a National level since it is a regional topic. But since I was against the additional race length back when it was proposed for the TEXAS REGION I figured I was one of the referenced "Jihadists" lol.

Oh yeah, and I loved your logic about if we don't change this then those who don't want to run 40 minutes are forcing a fellow racer to miss a NASA TX event. Now that's a nice touch. OK, I'll wear the black hat. :evil:

[CMC17]

flips .02 in the pot

The way it is now the "20"min race is actually a lot less once we get out on track and the green flag is waved. A "30"min race will probably net us 20min of actual racing on-track. When the word "40"min is used I doubt very seriously if the race will actually be that long. I could be mistaken, but I doubt it.

The only time I remember getting full milage out on-track is when we went over the 20min session time.

I digress to the fact that 6-8 laps is not going to cut it! This is a super sprint race format and as much as I hate to say it, I'd rather see three actual 20min on-track races than four 12min races. The longer races will bode better for pacing, driving ability (other than banzai moves) over time and other factors. A lot of strategy is involved with the longer races. Something we are definitely not used too.

Ok, sure I was not an advocate for the 40min race due to seeing the condition of racers after 20min in the heat. I wouldn't have a problem running a 40min race physically or mentally but, I'm not the majority (throws in another .02).

[CMC17]

<snip>
Eric - 30 minutes is not enough to test out a car setup for a 40 minute race.
<snip>

Give some of us a little more credit than that. CMC17 is ready for anything and everything. Ballast is a wonderful thing along with a handy dandy calculator. Some of us know exactly how much fuel is used in 10min of racing. Shift points, smooth tire conservation is always a factor and it's up to the driver to be able to adapt. Let those with a sprint race mentality run a long race and they will probably be lapped.

Bring on the 40min (30min actual racing) format.

<.02>

[CMC17]

One more thing.

This is straight from the National's schedule.

"TIMED RACES START WHEN THE CARS LEAVE THE GRID & INCLUDE COOL DOWN LAP, UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED."

40min (minus) at least 5-7min.

Short race IMHO.

[CMC17]

10/30/2005 -

Is this a sign of things to come?...probably not.
Will we ever have another 40 minute race in seasons to come?...probably so.

Remember...40 minute races aren't breaking new ground in AI/CMC. We've been doing it successfully in other regions for many years. So mechanically, physically and mentally...it's been done before. Just start with a full tank and all is fine. Note....The clock starts ticking as soon as we leave the hot pits....so we'll eat up a good 3-5 minutes in warmup and gridding alone!

It's just good to be prepared for them as a single 40 minute race is a typical time-saving tactic for NASA to catch up on the schedule if there is a lot of track cleanup throughout the weekend. We've been pretty spoiled with the excellent job the NASA corner workers have done to keep us hot lapping most all of the time...but we need to be prepared. The best time to do preparations for the unexpected is when we don't need to!!!
-=- Todd

[Mike Bell]

So, quit beating around the bush and just come out and say "We want to use NASA TX events to practice for Nationals." - no shame in that, makes sense if you are planning on going up to mid-OHIO. TC/AG can do whatever they want and decide how to run the event weekends and points.

Laying blame on Jihadists for whining to National or inferring they are going to burn down a fellow NASA TX racer isn't the answer unless you are trying to rally public support for your decisions. I got one entry fee, if it's going to be HOT like last May in DFW I can elect to stay home one weekend rather than get in the car for a 40 min race.

BTW, I'd swear I was in the car for 30 minutes plus last year in August at TWS, that's another experience I'd rather not duplicate. Younger or better drivers might actually enjoy it.

[Adam Ginsberg]

Obviously, I didn't make my point clear.

I'm not in favor of 40 minute races EVERY WEEKEND in Texas, especially in 104+ temps in August. I'm in favor of occasional 40 minute races in good weather - like Feb, Mar, maybe April, Oct, Nov. etc.

However, as Todd noted, it's already been decided. If you noticed, Todd's message was loaded with sarcasm.....we are very much in synch over this, and other subjects.

Mike - you are taking my comments wayyy too literally. All I was doing was bringing a particular point of view to light and showing some reality on the subject ( very typical of how I approach things ), i.e.: if a Texas racer wants to practice a 40min race in preparation for the Nationals, it can't be done in their own region. They'll have to go outside their region to accomplish it, and it's conceivable they might miss a Texas event due to scheduling for work/family/racing, money, etc. Not that they would have to miss a local event, only that it's possible. No more, no less.

Wear the black hat in deference to Johnny Cash, not me. :D

Eric is hitting on all the issues we brought forward last year.

[mitchntx]

http://www.aicmctexas.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=501#501

[Todd Covini]

:lol: :cry: :lol: :cry: :lol: :cry: :lol: :cry:

I hope you guys know that I was only kidding about the Jihad and not pointing fingers at any one person in this post. I was just being sarcastic because this was one of the things that really chapped my butt in how it was handled.

I was referring to the whole mutiny movement...not any one person. LOL

-=- Todd

[MikeP99Z]

Nationals will be a standing start also.

The actual race will be about 33-34 minutes.

[chris-CMC#35]

Don't know/think I'll be attending the Nationals, but it was good to see some clarification about qualifying, as noted on the NASA website announcement: "The driver must earn points in at least five official races (not weekends)." I thought I'd heard that it was five WEEKENDS, rather than five RACES.

-chris

[michaelmosty]

I think that there are two "races" each weekend that count towards qualifying. The first race on Sat. and first race on Sun. are the ones that count towards the "5" needed to compete in the Nationals.

[Nick]

Nationals will be a standing start also.



The site shows AI rolling start, CMC standing start, in the same run group...

[MikeP99Z]

Thx, at a glance I only saw standing start (CMC).

You are correct Sir.

[Nick]

"We want to use NASA TX events to practice for Nationals."

For me, that's only one reason.
The bigger reason would be that 20 minute (15 actual) races just aren't long enough (unless you're in front ;) ).
A few laps around TWS isn't a race, IMO.
We're having a lot of contact this year also. I've been involved in 3 or 4 just this year. That happens in short races as people have to get by right now. Longer races will bring out patience and well planned passes instead of bonzai moves.

There used to be a lot of talk about gridding in differing ways (age, car number, lotto, inverted, etc). Looking forward to a mix of starts and race lengths was a factor in chossing AI/CMC for me.

Just a suggestion. If a racer isn't comfortable doing 40 minute races, take that as a drop.. :?:

[GlennCMC70]

i found the schedule, but not anything about fees. can you guys point me in the right direction?

[MikeP99Z]

http://nasachampionships.com/home.html

click on register

[jeffburch]

i found the schedule, but not anything about fees. can you guys point me in the right direction?

http://www.nasaproracing.com/nc/supps.pdf


jb

[AI#97]

Well, while I am not opposed to a 40 minute race because I think it would be an interesting learning experience, if the ONLY justification is for those that are going to nationals can practice....it seems very short sided to force the rest of us who aren't going to prep for a 40 minute race.

If you guys who are going really want to practice running a 40 minute race AT MID OHIO.....they have events on April 22/23 and August 11-13.....to me that sounds like a better "practice" given the tracks are totally different so fuel usage will be different, tire wear will be different, weather will be different, etc....

Adam, not to be the wet rag in the conversation but for those of us racing IN TX could care less if you guys miss an event to go practice for a race. All we ask is that you don't ask us to go out of our way to accomodate a decision YOU make to go to nationals.....I assume that is a fair question?

Disclaimer: The above post in no way was written in anger or intended to offend said NASA Nationals competitors, their families, pets or sexual preferences.....

[Todd Covini]

No offense taken, Matt. FYI>..the other regions are going thru the same teething pains. A few have never done standing starts, so now they are debating whether to try standing starts...why should they all have to "suffer" for the few that are going to Nationals...wah...wah...wah.

Bottom line (from my perspective) is that we've all joined NASA and have become racers. I've always seen this experiance as the training ground for racing. For most of you, this is your only full size vehicle racing experience. So far you've gotten experience in standing starts, rolling starts, inverted starts and 20 minute races.

I've talked to many folks and the longer races, albeit only a few minutes longer, at 40 minutes is a whole new strategy...whole new level and it's part of the "growing up process. Limiting ourselves to only rolling starts or only this or only that is just that...limiting. We become more well rounded racers the more we experience and master.

..another 2 cents to chuck away.

-=- Todd

[NASA13]

Rock the vote suckas

http://www.aicmctexas.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=82

pheww I am tired of listening to all you women crying.

Lets try the democracy thing.

[Mike Bell]

Democracy? LOL.


WOMAN: I didn't know we had a king. I thought we were an autonomous
collective.
DENNIS: You're fooling yourself. We're living in a dictatorship.
A self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working classes--
WOMAN: Oh there you go, bringing class into it again.
DENNIS: That's what it's all about if only people would--
ARTHUR: Please, please good people. I am in haste. Who lives
in that castle?
WOMAN: No one live there.
ARTHUR: Then who is your lord?
WOMAN: We don't have a lord.
ARTHUR: What?
DENNIS: I told you. We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take
it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week.
ARTHUR: Yes.
DENNIS: But all the decision of that officer have to be ratified
at a special biweekly meeting.
ARTHUR: Yes, I see.
DENNIS: By a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs,--
ARTHUR: Be quiet!
DENNIS: --but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more--
ARTHUR: Be quiet! I order you to be quiet!
WOMAN: Order, eh -- who does he think he is?
ARTHUR: I am your king!
WOMAN: Well, I didn't vote for you.
ARTHUR: You don't vote for kings.

[micah]

try the 40 min. ,then you will have standing starts,rolling starts,poll grid,inverted grid,20 min. races single points,40 min. races double points and bragging rights on running with the most diverse region in nasa. A few points Jerry and I run 35 min. races with SE region they don't do standing starts, they have 45-65 multi-class field on the track at one time. It will affect stratagy/patience, your brake bias will change in a 40, the last 5 laps on greasy toyos is like trying to turn with no front sway bar,a I personally don't care for the way my coupe handles with a heavy fuel load,pollar inertia sucks.

[AI#97]

Rock the vote suckas

http://www.aicmctexas.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=82

pheww I am tired of listening to all you women crying.

Lets try the democracy thing.

Just putting in a point for those that might not want to do it....like I said, it would be an interesting learning experience.....

[MikeP99Z]

Per JWL:

"5 starts get in you in the door. In a region that does a 4 race format, you could nearly pull it off in one weekend.

As for the schedule, the Friday and Saturday qualifying race results will be combined and tabulated to get you your Sunday grid spot. The Friday qualifying gets you your Friday qual race spot and your Saturday qualifying gets you your Saturday qual race spot. It's a little confusing, but it works out and gets everyone a shoo-shiddily-diddily of racing over the four days that we're there."

[micah]

mike r u gonna take cmc 8 to nats?

[MikeP99Z]

nope.

cmc 8 will be long sold by then. The new owner may take it, dunno.

[bossskip302]

Can we Vote on a 40 min, race? Scott and I vote yes..................

Skip

[Todd Covini]

Looks like my chances at a podium finish so far at the Nationals is looking PRE-TTY good!!!

http://www.nasaproracing.com/championships/Entry-List.html

-=- Todd

[David Love AI27]

I may work the nationals as a corner worker and will be bringing the LiiR popup motel. Will have room for 1 or 2 occupants. Anyone interested?

[CMC17]

Looks like my chances at a podium finish so far at the Nationals is looking PRE-TTY good!!!

http://www.nasaproracing.com/championships/Entry-List.html

-=- Todd

Go get 'em!!!

I'm trying my best to figure out a way to make it.

:D

[bossskip302]

If anyone is interested AJ with PST has some incar video of Mid-Ohio on VHS he is lending us this weekend to view 8) .............just for grins

[AI#97]

Not trying to bring up a dead subject but for any of you that are interested in getting track time and M.O. without paying for the school, I am definitely going up there for the OH/IN region event in July, our off month. It is July 7-9th and I plan on heading up on the 6th and coming back monday the 10th.

I have already contacted Dave Royce up there to get suggestions as well as find a "buddy" to tag along with to get up to speed more quickly. JG is also considering this event but may have some work conflicts. I was also told this weekend there are a few spec miata guys considering the same "practice" event.

If anyone is interested in this, let me know and I will add you to the list of potential attendees while I discuss this with their director.

[jeffburch]

My off month begins Mon. June 19 with elbow surgery.
Ouch!
I'm tired of driving with one arm. Gonna get my epicondylitis taken care of.

jb

[Todd Covini]

Not trying to bring up a dead subject but for any of you that are interested in getting track time and M.O. without paying for the school, I am definitely going up there for the OH/IN region event in July, our off month. It is July 7-9th and I plan on heading up on the 6th and coming back monday the 10th.

I have already contacted Dave Royce up there to get suggestions as well as find a "buddy" to tag along with to get up to speed more quickly. JG is also considering this event but may have some work conflicts. I was also told this weekend there are a few spec miata guys considering the same "practice" event.

If anyone is interested in this, let me know and I will add you to the list of potential attendees while I discuss this with their director.

I'm mildly interested and would have to make a bonzai up and bonzai back run at it. My wife & kids are heading to Oregon for the month of July to avoid the heat...they won't miss me if I'm "away for the weekend"!

Let's talk...

-=- T

[AI#97]

Let's talk...

-=- T

I have a vendor happy hour tonight so I will probably give you a call this weekend.

[AI#97]

I'm mildly interested and would have to make a bonzai up and bonzai back run at it. My wife & kids are heading to Oregon for the month of July to avoid the heat...they won't miss me if I'm "away for the weekend"!

Let's talk...

-=- T

sorry Todd, have been totally distracted since last week....attended a bachelor party last weekend and I have been recovering ever since.... :P Then out of town 3 days this week....I will give you a call this weekend.

[Todd Covini]

No problem.
You did get a commitment for some Trophy girls while at the bachelor party, though, right??? :lol:

-=- T

[mitchntx]

An exclusive picture of the "trophy girlz" from Matt's party ...



http://www.parkplacerocksmyface.com/images/images_PPY/image_3844.jpg

http://ginoruberto.com/images/Dixie-n-Vernie-1.jpg

[AI#97]

An exclusive picture of the "trophy girlz" from Matt's party ...



Underage in the first picture and what barrel did you kick over for the second one?! :shock:

Had something more in mind along these lines..... see below...




AND if you go to the OH/IN section on Nasaforums.com, they had "trophy girlz" in a few of their pics....and instead of $2 medallions....they got 10"x12" plaques and their entry fee is only $270..... Just doing some research on how to make things better around here!!! :P

[AI#97]

Besides....you guys should know that cameras aren't allowed during bachelor parties....there MUST be a "plausible deniability" and a photo record would only substantiate the wife's filing for divorce! :wink:

[mitchntx]

LOL ... 8)

[Mike Bell]

and a photo record would only substantiate the wife's filing for divorce! :wink:

What a rookie you are Matt. Since when does there need to be ANYTHING to substantiate the wife's filing? :twisted:

[AI#97]

What a rookie you are Matt. Since when does there need to be ANYTHING to substantiate the wife's filing? :twisted:

No sense in throwing Gasoline onto the fire! :lol:


Besides, now that the wife knows what I spend on racing and how little time I spend with her.....who knows what the future holds for me?! :P