Track Width Data from ECR!

[GlennCMC70]

For those who provided me w/ data, did you take out the thickness of the toe plates (both of them!)?
Let me know please.

I assume all the plates are madeout of 1/16" sheet? 1/8" sheet?

[ShadowBolt]

For those who provided me w/ data, did you take out the thickness of the toe plates (both of them!)?
Let me know please.

I assume all the plates are madeout of 1/16" sheet? 1/8" sheet?

Glenn,

I think they are .080" or .090" but someone will have to measure one I don't remember what we used to make them. I did not subtract the material thickness.

Jerry

[AllZWay]

I took measurments to the inside of the awesome plates Jerry made.

[Fbody383]

It's getting complicate around here... we're worried about .2" of track width but have no real idea on scale accuracy?

Never mind... it looks like it's about the same as a 10lb variation on a percent basis.

Carry on... nothing to see here.

[michaelmosty]

I measured the plates at 1/8" each. My front track width is 72.75 w/ .25" removed for the plates to 72.5", running 3/8" spacer per side. If anyone ever sees me running more spacer than that I am illegal. ;^)

[David Love AI27]

It's getting complicate around here... we're worried about .2" of track width but have no real idea on scale accuracy?

Never mind... it looks like it's about the same as a 10lb variation on a percent basis.

Carry on... nothing to see here.

DUDE... you're not used to it yet????....


Glad I'm out... nice to just watch and not deal with all the bullsh!t...

What happened to the "rolling eyes" icon?????

[David Love AI27]

LOL..,. where do you measure??? top of the tire??? center line of the hub??? bottom of the tire??? front of the tire or rear or the average of the two?? If you run an "alternate" tire do you have to adjust your suspension because Toyo can't provide the spec tire???... How much air was in when you measured???.. is it pre race or post race???... hotter tires stand taller and skinner due to higher pressures... with or with out the driver??? What were your camber settings?? do you have to go back through tech if you change the camber??

The main thing is you better know the thickness of the tow plate if you measure to the outside...

[ShadowBolt]

LOL..,. where do you measure??? top of the tire??? center line of the hub??? bottom of the tire??? front of the tire or rear or the average of the two?? If you run an "alternate" tire do you have to adjust your suspension because Toyo can't provide the spec tire???... How much air was in when you measured???.. is it pre race or post race???... hotter tires stand taller and skinner due to higher pressures... with or with out the driver??? What were your camber settings?? do you have to go back through tech if you change the camber??

The main thing is you better know the thickness of the tow plate if you measure to the outside...

I'm glad I'm not out. This is the most fun I ever had and I have never even won a race (may not ever).

I wish you were still running with us David!

JJ

[Alien]

LOL..,. where do you measure??? top of the tire??? center line of the hub??? bottom of the tire??? front of the tire or rear or the average of the two?? If you run an "alternate" tire do you have to adjust your suspension because Toyo can't provide the spec tire???... How much air was in when you measured???.. is it pre race or post race???... hotter tires stand taller and skinner due to higher pressures... with or with out the driver??? What were your camber settings?? do you have to go back through tech if you change the camber??

The main thing is you better know the thickness of the tow plate if you measure to the outside...


8.3 Fenders / Quarter Panels
Track width will be measured using two metal plates similar to the Longacre #7950 toe plates placed flush against the tire. Measurements will be taken three inches from the ground at the front and rear of the tire and averaged to calculate final track width.

Seems pretty well layed out. Don't know what an "alternate" tire is, pretty sure there's a rule in there saying we are running RA1's. Are you seriously saying that hot vs cold will give any measurable (with a TAPEMEASURE!) difference? Really?

I have no problem with Glenn's legitimate question. For all he knows, we could have used a 1" bit of wood to measure.

[Fbody383]

Glad I'm out... nice to just watch and not deal with all the bullsh!t... I AM going to say this "out loud"...

For me, one of the best things about this group is watching the Father/Son teams interact. All of you that have the ability to enjoy that time, do not take it for granted.

David, if this is the greatest amount of crap I have to deal with fine. If this is more crap than YOU can deal with, then just come out on Saturday nights and have a beer on me.

I see this as a reasonable step to continue to maintain parity with the vehicles. I'm comfortable being a mid-pack slacker knowing it's probably the driver and not the platform.

[Casey_SS]

I AM going to say this "out loud"...

For me, one of the best things about this group is watching the Father/Son teams interact. All of you that have the ability to enjoy that time, do not take it for granted.

David, if this is the greatest amount of crap I have to deal with fine. If this is more crap than YOU can deal with, then just come out on Saturday nights and have a beer on me.

I see this as a reasonable step to continue to maintain parity with the vehicles. I'm comfortable being a mid-pack slacker knowing it's probably the driver and not the platform.

Well said. I completely agree and will actually take it a step further - Very few people are able to actively race for more than a few short years. Life changes fast and the majority of grassroots racers hang it up after 3-5 years for various reasons. As entertaining as it can be to get caught up in all the bitching and other drama, never lose sight of how temporary this period in your life is and how much you'll miss it when it's gone for whatever reason. We are all very fortunate to be able to do this at all.

[GlennCMC70]

It's getting complicate around here... we're worried about .2" of track width but have no real idea on scale accuracy?

Never mind... it looks like it's about the same as a 10lb variation on a percent basis.

Carry on... nothing to see here.

Accually we are collecting data so we can create a rule w/ a hard number in it. Then we don't need to worry if anyone streached the fenders to fit over the tires. I don't see any of them being set narrower than what is already out there.

[GlennCMC70]

Seems pretty well layed out. Don't know what an "alternate" tire is, pretty sure there's a rule in there saying we are running RA1's. Are you seriously saying that hot vs cold will give any measurable (with a TAPEMEASURE!) difference? Really?

I have no problem with Glenn's legitimate question. For all he knows, we could have used a 1" bit of wood to measure.

Thanks GR. Keep up the good work.

[GlennCMC70]

Just to fill you guys in a little. I was told by each person if the plates were included, and I forgot half way thru colleting it. I said the same thing.... "what is an 1/8" between friends, right?". Then I remembered there were two plates. That is a 1/4" . I better be a little more accurate than that I figured.
Thanks all for helping to put a hard number to a vauge rule. I'll be turning al this over to the National Director tonight, so still got time to give me you input.

[JasonLiiR]

"For me, one of the best things about this group is watching the Father/Son teams interact."
You must not watch us "interact" much if you call us a team...haha entertaining I'm sure but team just isn't the right description...Papa Love and "Baby Love" as Boudy calls me is more like extremely disorganized chaos that somehow won a championship once upon a time, to put it nicely, the championship was probably mostly the car though. However I still wouldn't change it for the world. Thanks for all the sacrifices to give me the opportunity to do this D-Love. Even if all the Series Directors do have it out for us and the 3 car now. ;).....another thread sidetracked, what a surprise.

[AllZWay]

Crap... Just thought about something. When Dad and I measured my car I didn't take the plate on Dad's side out of the measurement. I measured to the inside on my side though. So what ever the width of Jerry's plates are, one side needs to be subtracted.

Front of tires: 73-3/4 minus 1/8? = 73-5/8
Rear of tires: 73-7/8 minus 1/8? = 73-3/4

Rear track width measured: 73-1/4 minus 1/8? = 73-1/8

I hope that math is correct.

[GlennCMC70]

"For me, one of the best things about this group is watching the Father/Son teams interact."
You must not watch us "interact" much if you call us a team...haha entertaining I'm sure but team just isn't the right description...Papa Love and "Baby Love" as Boudy calls me is more like extremely disorganized chaos that somehow won a championship once upon a time, to put it nicely, the championship was probably mostly the car though. However I still wouldn't change it for the world. Thanks for all the sacrifices to give me the opportunity to do this D-Love. Even if all the Series Directors do have it out for us and the 3 car now. ;).....another thread sidetracked, what a surprise.

Your dad has you seeing black helecoptors too?
I can assure you both nothing is further from the trueth.

[GlennCMC70]

I'm glad I'm not out. This is the most fun I ever had and I have never even won a race (may not ever).

I wish you were still running with us David!

JJ

I hope one day I can do this w/ my two girls.

[GlennCMC70]

Gary and Wade, I need an answer from your group. I have 3 cars worth of data you guys gave me. I really need to get this to Al tonight.

David F - you too.

Wayne Stahle - let me know.

Jerry and Son, just let me know w/ or w/out plates, and I'll remove the 1/8" per side from what you gave me.

Mulder - you too.

English - Deadline is 5pm today!

[marshall_mosty]

Well said. I completely agree and will actually take it a step further - Very few people are able to actively race for more than a few short years. Life changes fast and the majority of grassroots racers hang it up after 3-5 years for various reasons. As entertaining as it can be to get caught up in all the bitching and other drama, never lose sight of how temporary this period in your life is and how much you'll miss it when it's gone for whatever reason. We are all very fortunate to be able to do this at all.
I guess I'm one of the exceptions to the rule after running my 7th season this year with no end in sight... At 33, I only have 50 more years to go and will still be younger than Paul Newman when he got in a DP car at the 24-hours at Daytona at the age of 84...

[JasonLiiR]

Truth**** fixed it for you. I was actually joking. I don't really think you have it out for me. The car maybe, but not me. Also another joke...or is it?

[Fbody383]

David F - you too. Mine included thickness of 2 plates.

[GlennCMC70]

Truth**** fixed it for you. I was actually joking. I don't really think you have it out for me. The car maybe, but not me. Also another joke...or is it?

I have it out for anyone or anyone or any car that has pushed past the limits of the rules. It is no secret that Jeff exploited more than one loophole.

Call me please. I have some info about the car for you.

[Casey_SS]

I guess I'm one of the exceptions to the rule after running my 7th season this year with no end in sight... At 33, I only have 50 more years to go and will still be younger than Paul Newman when he got in a DP car at the 24-hours at Daytona at the age of 84...

Guys like you are exceptions to most generalizations....you throw off the curve for the rest of us and therefore don't count ;)

[JasonLiiR]

I think all the loopholes that might have been exploited have been sown shut for the most part in the 2 years this unprepared race team has had the car. I'm actually surprised we haven't had more problems then we have.

[ShadowBolt]

Gary and Wade, I need an answer from your group. I have 3 cars worth of data you guys gave me. I really need to get this to Al tonight.

David F - you too.

Wayne Stahle - let me know.

Jerry and Son, just let me know w/ or w/out plates, and I'll remove the 1/8" per side from what you gave me.

Subtract 1/8" per side.

JJ

[Ben2004]

Glenn,

Wade, Wendi and Gary helped measure my car and I know we measure to the outside of the plates on both sides.

[HoustonNW]

Gary and Wade, I need an answer from your group. I have 3 cars worth of data you guys gave me. I really need to get this to Al tonight.

David F - you too.

Wayne Stahle - let me know.

Jerry and Son, just let me know w/ or w/out plates, and I'll remove the 1/8" per side from what you gave me.

Mulder - you too.

English - Deadline is 5pm today!

I was there for the Mulder, English, and Stehle measurements and we all included the plate width.

[GlennCMC70]

Glenn,

Wade, Wendi and Gary helped measure my car and I know we measure to the outside of the plates on both sides.

Teal Formula - right?

[GlennCMC70]

Guys, I need wheels size. No offset's. Just diameter and width.

[HoustonNW]

Guys, I need wheels size. No offset's. Just diameter and width.

I can't imagine how this is of any value without the offset, but 16x8. And I have some spacers in the back but I'm not sure about the thickness.

[Wade]

Our measurements that were give to Glenn for the teal car, Gary's car, and my car were all including the plate thickness. Take off 5/16" from the numbers I gave you for the pair of plates. Teal car was on 16x8's, Gary's car on GTA's, and my car on '99 Gt wheels, 17x8's. Let me know if you need clarification on anything.

[David Love AI27]

I have it out for anyone or anyone or any car that has pushed past the limits of the rules. It is no secret that Jeff exploited more than one loophole.

Call me please. I have some info about the car for you.

There is a BIG difference between "past the limits of the rules" and exploiting a loophole... One is a violation, the other is just being advantagous. EVERYONE has the right to take advantage of a loophole...

Our car has been open and available to anyone who wants to inspect it, ANYONE. If someone thinks we are cheaters then put your money where your mouth is.. PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!!

Glenn, if you have information about our car, POST IT... I'm not scared... I have offered to remedy any violation of the rules but no one has given me a "fix it ticket" yet...

Seems like ever since I moved from the 27 car to the 3 car, all of the credit has been given to the car and not the driver.. as if "if David Love is that fast, the car must be illegal"... just sayin...

[Fbody383]

Guys, I need wheels size. No offset's. Just diameter and width.4 stock salad shooters for the #39

[ShadowBolt]

Seems like ever since I moved from the 27 car to the 3 car, all of the credit has been given to the car and not the driver.. as if "if David Love is that fast, the car must be illegal"... just sayin...

David you are dead wrong about this. I never heard anyone say anything like this about you. Do you not remember this group getting together to buy you a set of tires so you could race with us? WE WANT YOU ON TRACK WITH US! I don't know what drove you away but none of us want you gone (not even Glenn). Get the car up to CMC (CMC2) specs and come race with us. No one is out to get you.


JJ

[David Love AI27]

David you are dead wrong about this. I never heard anyone say anything like this about you. Do you not remember this group getting together to buy you a set of tires so you could race with us? WE WANT YOU ON TRACK WITH US! I don't know what drove you away but none of us want you gone (not even Glenn). Get the car up to CMC (CMC2) specs and come race with us. No one is out to get you.


JJ

I WILL NEVER FORGET THAT, NEVER!!! I keep a picture of that day in my Data book...

Overall, there is not a better bunch of gentleman in the world...

Just sick and tired of the focus on the 3 car... I have done VERY LITTLE to the car since I bought it and it has passed National Tech in 2009 and Regional Tech for the last 2 years. If someone KNOWS that there is something ILLEGAL with that car, then they should be held accountable...

[David Love AI27]

ON THREAD:

91 Camaro
Stock spindles
Baer hubs (off the shelf)
GM rotors
Stock GM GTA rims 16 X 8
Toyo RA1s
Track width 73.4375 (73.7/16") measured 2" off the ground
No Spacers

[GlennCMC70]

David you are dead wrong about this. I never heard anyone say anything like this about you. Do you not remember this group getting together to buy you a set of tires so you could race with us? WE WANT YOU ON TRACK WITH US! I don't know what drove you away but none of us want you gone (not even Glenn). Get the car up to CMC (CMC2) specs and come race with us. No one is out to get you.


JJ

Jerry is right. I never heard anyone say such things.
Get w/ Jason, I filled him in already.

[GlennCMC70]

ON THREAD:

91 Camaro
Stock spindles
Baer hubs (off the shelf)
GM rotors
Stock GM GTA rims 16 X 8
Toyo RA1s
Track width 73.4375 (73.7/16") measured 2" off the ground
No Spacers

Thanks for the data, but you didn't need to do this. I just needed feedback from the folks we worked w/ at ECR.
To learn how to measure this the way it will be checked, see the AI rule on trackwidth.

[GlennCMC70]

I WILL NEVER FORGET THAT, NEVER!!! I keep a picture of that day in my Data book...

Overall, there is not a better bunch of gentleman in the world...

Just sick and tired of the focus on the 3 car... I have done VERY LITTLE to the car since I bought it and it has passed National Tech in 2009 and Regional Tech for the last 2 years. If someone KNOWS that there is something ILLEGAL with that car, then they should be held accountable...

Hold me accountable.
Contact Al Fernandez and then JWL and Jerry K. along w/ Ryan Flarity at NASA HQ.

[AllZWay]

David you are dead wrong about this. I never heard anyone say anything like this about you. Do you not remember this group getting together to buy you a set of tires so you could race with us? WE WANT YOU ON TRACK WITH US! I don't know what drove you away but none of us want you gone (not even Glenn). Get the car up to CMC (CMC2) specs and come race with us. No one is out to get you.


JJ

I completely agree with Jerry. I haven't heard a single negative about either of you guys.

[David Love AI27]

Hold me accountable.
Contact Al Fernandez and then JWL and Jerry K. along w/ Ryan Flarity at NASA HQ.

I AM NOT CONTACTING ANYONE... NOT MY JOB

Is this an official protest or are you just crying like a little school girl cuz someone pulled your ponytail???

If ANYONE!!! ANYONE!!! has a problem with me they need to step up, follow the proceedure as outlined in the CCR, and stop this behind the back bullsh!t.

If you knew that my car was illegal in 2010 then Wirtz should kick your a$$ for costing him a Championship..

I have always been open and honest, up front, ALL IN... like I said "PUT UP OR SHUT UP"

EVERYBODY knows about my battery/cool suit mounting bracket.. I was told by numerous OFFICIALS that I "might" want to do something about it... I said I would remove it when an OFFICIAL protest was filed or it is was declared illegal. I was told that there "might" be foam in my fuel tank, I looked into the matter and could not PROVE that it was here. YOU said that by pushing out my chin spoiler I turned it into a SPLITTER!!! SPLITTER??? Are you kidding me??? What else you got, Glenn?? Don't you have something better to do??? Jason finished 11th in points, wheres the beef???????

[Crumpacker]

I completely agree with Jerry. I haven't heard a single negative about either of you guys.

Except for the ECR port-a-can issue a couple years back... ;)


I'd love to see the 3 AND 27 back on track together!!

[David Love AI27]

Thanks for the data

You are welcome

[David Love AI27]

Except for the ECR port-a-can issue a couple years back... ;)


I'd love to see the 3 AND 27 back on track together!!

LOL the porta-can deal was classic!!!!!!!!!!!!!

3 vs 27??? Maybe "The Driver's Edge" or another DE event... oh, and the 10 car too!!! motor is in just need to finish the wiring...

the 3 and 10 will be close, glad I'll be out front and miss the brother/sister rivalry....


"Group D, Drama, to grid" Gotta love that Darcie.....

[GlennCMC70]

I said more like a splitter.
So 11th is an OK place to have an illegal car?
Tell that to the 12th place guy.

[JasonLiiR]

I actually just talked to the 12th place guy on the phone...Hi Sam. We decided to discuss all the "illegal stuff" on the 3 car later. He was busy......Am I the only one that is starting to think this is a little ridiculous. I don't get the point anymore. Its been two years since we bought the car. Shouldn't all this stuff have happened or been discussed when we purchased the car or at the last two annuals? If anyone wants to come look at the 3 car I can give you directions to the shop it will be sitting in for a while since I haven't had a chance to go work on the oil pan and start the off season tune up/upgrades since TWS. O and Sam you can have the 11th place trophy if you want it :) and whoever was in 13th can have Sams 12th if he decides to take 11th. Hell why not just drop me to last and move everyone up a spot. Sound good to everyone?

[AllZWay]

Except for the ECR port-a-can issue a couple years back... ;)


I'd love to see the 3 AND 27 back on track together!!

True... I did have some negative things to say about that. :D

[GlennCMC70]

I actually just talked to the 12th place guy on the phone...Hi Sam. We decided to discuss all the "illegal stuff" on the 3 car later. He was busy......Am I the only one that is starting to think this is a little ridiculous. I don't get the point anymore. Its been two years since we bought the car. Shouldn't all this stuff have happened or been discussed when we purchased the car or at the last two annuals? If anyone wants to come look at the 3 car I can give you directions to the shop it will be sitting in for a while since I haven't had a chance to go work on the oil pan and start the off season tune up/upgrades since TWS.

How many issued have I pointed out to you guys this year? One. One that was pointed out to me. I also gave you a heads up about a rule change and that the rules change would place focus on the noted issue. All the other stuff has been corrected or never existed as far as I know.
As for annuals, I don't recall who did yours, do you?

[JasonLiiR]

If I remember correctly it was a NASA Tech offical, the same people that do post race techs and have done all of our techs since 2005..but this year it was Jonathan if I remember correctly.

[GlennCMC70]

If I remember correctly it was a NASA Tech offical, the same people that do post race techs and have done all of our techs since 2005..but this year it was Jonathan if I remember correctly.

So that was CCR Tech, not CMC Tech, right?
Annual's are for nothingbut safety.

[rleng1]

17x9, need to subtract plate widths.
Check my avatar.....3 & 27 & 77 in the same pic. Father, son, and the old man.
Glad I got another 30 years of racing left. Other stuff, not so much.

[Boudy]

Accually we are collecting data so we can create a rule w/ a hard number in it. Then we don't need to worry if anyone streached the fenders to fit over the tires. I don't see any of them being set narrower than what is already out there.

Thank you.

Boudy

[GlennCMC70]

Thank you.

Boudy

Your welcome!

[JasonLiiR]

That's true Glenn my mistake. Its past all random post race CMC techs also but I'm over it. I'll run what I bring, if theres something illegal with it hopefully yall can find it cause we haven't seen it and then we can fix it or whatever the old man decides to do. I'm over it. Old English, your avatar is actually one of my favorite pictures. I think that might have been after our unnoticed contact last year at Hallett that I came and cleaned off your nice new paint job.

[David Love AI27]

17x9, need to subtract plate widths.
Check my avatar.....3 & 27 & 77 in the same pic. Father, son, and the old man.
Glad I got another 30 years of racing left. Other stuff, not so much.

the good old days

[David Love AI27]

I said more like a splitter.
So 11th is an OK place to have an illegal car?
Tell that to the 12th place guy.

I had a long drawn out reply... but I would get just as far talking to a brick wall, as usual.

"looks" like a splitter? or "performs" like a splitter? guess if you add feathers it must be a splitter.

AND the 12th place guy knows my car as well as I do, maybe more so... If he wanted to protest, there is a section in the CCR that covers that. EVERYONE has that option and I NEVER lied or covered up anything illegal on my car... I'm with Jason, take away all our points. He only ran CMC2 for the fun of it... And my points in CMC will only move me down to...... last place

[GlennCMC70]

You win David.