Best stockcar driver ever? Is he the GOAT?

[ShadowBolt]

Anyone that watched the Bud Shootout tell me who is (or was) better than the Kyle Bush? I thought he was gone the first time the a$$holes from Hendricks hit
him but he saved it over and over. No one else saved even one of those "deals". If you have not watched it take the time to enjoy one of (if not the best) of all time.


JJ

[rleng1]

Hey hey hey. He got loose. But no doubt the best driver with his 2 saves.
What about the move at the end for the win? Now that was a race move.
No doubt KB is the best driver.

[David Love AI27]

I hate his attitude, but no doubt about the show he put on last night...

[jdlingle]

He has the physical talent to be the best ever but until he gets his head on straight he's always gonna choke in the Chase. That was a very impressive save though, I have to give him that.

[AllZWay]

I can't say the best ever, but definitely one of the best ever. Too bad he doesn't have the head to go with the talent.

I really admire his talent, but his moronic attitude makes me hate him most of the time.

[kbrewmr2]

GOAT? Hell no. Gotta come close to 5-time's 5 championships first, or even top those and top everyone else all-time imho. Even outside of that there's some debate as well. Plenty of good drivers in NASCAR that aren't asshats to cheer for...

[ShadowBolt]

I can't say the best ever, but definitely one of the best ever. Too bad he doesn't have the head to go with the talent.

I really admire his talent, but his moronic attitude makes me hate him most of the time.

You have to understand the kind of guys I like in sports. I like John McEnroe, DW (before anyone else liked him) Ricky Rudd, Ernie Irvan, Nigel Mansell, AJ Foyt, Bill Russell, Bill Walton, Joe Namath, Hollywood Henderson, Joel Robert (too old for most of you) and Jammin Jimmy Winert. There are others I like that are not like these guys but the guy that is a smartass that can back it up are fun to watch.
For some reason I never liked Big E or Junior. To quote Tom Petty "I'm crazy bout Elvis" though.

JJ

[ShadowBolt]

GOAT? Hell no. Gotta come close to 5-time's 5 championships first, or even top those and top everyone else all-time imho. Even outside of that there's some debate as well. Plenty of good drivers in NASCAR that aren't asshats to cheer for...

Mr Five Time and his team should have been kicked out of Daytona for showing up with a car that was an obvious attempt to cheat. How many times are they going to let Chad get away with this crap. How long would we put up with a guys that contiunes to try and get around the rules.

JJ

[BlueFirePony]

Mr Five Time and his team should have been kicked out of Daytona for showing up with a car that was an obvious attempt to cheat. How many times are they going to let Chad get away with this crap. How long would we put up with a guys that contiunes to try and get around the rules.

JJ
Jerry I appreciate your affinity for the bad boys, but singling out Chad for cheating? Your a DW fan right? For seasons DW deliberately loaded his car with extra weight for inspection then removed those items before or DURING the race(BBs anyone?) - only stopped because he got caught! He also got caught more than once putting power adders on his cars. "If you don't cheat, you look stupid"....who was that quote from?

I'm working on all sorts of "beyond the rules" ideas myself...;)

[kbrewmr2]

What's your guys take on Smokey Yunick then?

[BlueFirePony]

What's your guys take on Smokey Yunick then?
Yunick was awesome! A true pioneer in NASCAR's slippery slope.

[ShadowBolt]

Jerry I appreciate your affinity for the bad boys, but singling out Chad for cheating? Your a DW fan right? For seasons DW deliberately loaded his car with extra weight for inspection then removed those items before or DURING the race(BBs anyone?) - only stopped because he got caught! He also got caught more than once putting power adders on his cars. "If you don't cheat, you look stupid"....who was that quote from?

I'm working on all sorts of "beyond the rules" ideas myself...;)

I was just yanking the chains for the Hendricks fans (BL) but the teams were told not to try and do anything between the templates and they did it anyway. Also Smokey Yunick was a great innovator.
I don't think DW got caught with the shot in the frame but maybe. I do know he had a mile of fuel line in a car once. Also Rudds car at Daytona once had a way to lower it going out on the track then pump it back up with the clutch when you came in the pits.

I do have a problem with saying if someone is not cheating they are not trying or they look stupid. How does that work in club racing? Am I supposed to be trying to get away with all I can to cheat in CMC or I'm looking stupid? I know my uncle used to race 1/4 mile dirt track and they cheated like hell. I heard my dad talking about drag racing in the 50's and cheating like Hell. Maybe I've been looking at this all wrong.


Also I really don't think KB is the GOAT, but he may be the best at car control that ever held a stearing wheel. Tim Richmond was also a hell of a wheel man.

JJ

[BlueFirePony]

.I don't think DW got caught with the shot in the frame but maybe. I do know he had a mile of fuel line in a car once. Also Rudds car at Daytona once had a way to lower it going out on the track then pump it back up with the clutch when you came in the pits.I do have a problem with saying if someone is not cheating they are not trying or they look stupid. How does that work in club racing? Am I supposed to be trying to get away with all I can to cheat in CMC or I'm looking stupid? I know my uncle used to race 1/4 mile dirt track and they cheated like hell. I heard my dad talking about drag racing in the 50's and cheating like Hell. Maybe I've been looking at this all wrong.Also I really don't think KB is the GOAT, but he may be the best at car control that ever held a stearing wheel. Tim Richmond was also a hell of a wheel man.JJ
There is some amatuer video (or maybe it was a pit reporter camera...not sure) out there somewhere from when the pellets fell out of the framerail of DW's car all wadded up in a clump..story is that is how they caught him, cause he normally would drop the pellets once he got on the track during an outlap and no one knew. That quote was DW from late 70's early 80's I think.

For what it's worth Jerry I don't go out to cheat and I've never given a second's thought as to whether you or any one else in this series does so...I've competed at higher level than this in other sports where I've put myself 110% in and I've been beat by cheaters and I've beat cheaters...no question that it sux to know that you coulda/shoulda won but someone with less integrity beat you out, but to me there is a lot more at stake and more enjoyment for me in HOW I play the game.

Now I will play at the edges of the rules but I always intend to stay on the honorable side....the trick with something like our racing is that I don't see how you can write a servicable rule book that covers 100% of the details when you are serving two masters...promoting car count and ensuring parity.

USA Hockey had the same problem until they got youth development going in the 90's...the rule book kept growing, players and coaches kept playing with (and outside) the edges and that is a sport where innovation comes after decades not seasonally like we seem to deal with...then they created a "situational" handbook and started officiating based on the 3 I's (Intent, Injury, Intimidation) - sounds squishy, but it actually allowed players, coaches and officials to better understand where the lines are...now executing that during a game is sometimes hard but it is much more possible using situational application of the rules than the rules alone.

The DW and Knause examples are where they KNEW they were breaking a rule regardless of situational example and while I believe Yunick initially took the approach of "what is not written is legal", he clearly knew he was in the wrong after a while - I am not condoning their actions but I do appreciate the ingenuity.

And yes, Kyle Bush has awesome driving skills...whether he is keepin' from wreckin' or tryin' to wreck someone else...

[ShadowBolt]

I heard DW tell the lead shot story once about how several cars (and maybe even his) spun out because of driving on the shot he released.

JJ

[Alien]

I heard DW tell the lead shot story once about how several cars (and maybe even his) spun out because of driving on the shot he released.

JJ
Maybe that can be JPM's excuse... The jet truck was dropping lead shot, I swear!

[BryanL]

Mr Five Time and his team should have been kicked out of Daytona for showing up with a car that was an obvious attempt to cheat. How many times are they going to let Chad get away with this crap. How long would we put up with a guys that contiunes to try and get around the rules.

JJ

http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/blog/from_the_marbles/post/nascar-suspends-jimmie-johnsons-crew-chief-chad-knaus-for-six-races?urn=nascar,wp6856

[David Love AI27]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/blog/from_the_marbles/post/nascar-suspends-jimmie-johnsons-crew-chief-chad-knaus-for-six-races?urn=nascar,wp6856

When Jason and I went to Taladega, they ran the car through a "basic" tech and that included @ 25 templets... there were at least 25 more for prerace and that didin't include under car and ride height and overall height.... there are 5 or 6 techs that know their stuff... I could never imagine how a team thinks they can pull something over on the prerace inspection...

[AllZWay]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/blog/from_the_marbles/post/nascar-suspends-jimmie-johnsons-crew-chief-chad-knaus-for-six-races?urn=nascar,wp6856

Had this been Robby Gordon or some other lesser favorite driver...they would have gotten a stiffer penalty. Nascar is so inconsistent when it comes to penalties.

Ole five time has been getting away with tons of cheating for years.

[ShadowBolt]

Had this been Robby Gordon or some other lesser favorite driver...they would have gotten a stiffer penalty. Nascar is so inconsistent when it comes to penalties.

Ole five time has been getting away with tons of cheating for years.

Yes, what he said. I always wonder why some Hendricks cars win and some don't. I know Ken Schrader can drive but he did not win with them.

JJ

[kbrewmr2]

I like how ALL of us are higher up in the Sprint Cup points right now than JJ...

[ShadowBolt]

I like how ALL of us are higher up in the Sprint Cup points right now than JJ...

That is funny as hell. I want to use that one. "Hey, I'm ahead of Jimmy Johnson in Cup points at this point in the season.

The difference in them and us is tons of $$$$$$$. I really do understand why they cheat, but as my ex cop dad used to say "don't do the crime if you can't do the time".

JJ