Lessons from Hallett #82

[Daniel Allford]

After Hallett I checked toe and camber, I was happy to see that I had gained a degree of camber up to -3 deg. but I didn’t like the ¾” of toe in. Closer inspection revealed where the camber and toe came from:


1082


So I ground out the crack


1083


And welded it up


1084


I also discovered that both lower front shock mounts were broken


1085


And the right rear upper shock mount bushing was gone, so I had no dampening.

Conclusions:
Don’t fly the car, air time is fun but it is bad for the suspension.
When the driver says the car feels funny, inspect it.
The 82 car should be quick at Eagles when it has all 4 shocks working and the front wheels are pointed forward

Dan Allford #82

[GlennCMC70]

Active toe! Nice.

That is a omewhat common failure from my limited tracking og 4th gens. Someof the OEM beads look like the missed one of the two parts they were trying to attach. My old chassis had some of these parts welded.

Also check the diff (axle tube) where the PHB attaches.

[AllZWay]

Interesting break... I think I will inspect my car a little closer.

[BryanL]

Also, check the front swaybar mount brackets. Mine are starting to show a crack and Blainefab sells some reinforced ones so it is another common problem.

[GlennCMC70]

I see tubular K members in the 4th gen's future.

[ShadowBolt]

After Hallett I checked toe and camber, I was happy to see that I had gained a degree of camber up to -3 deg. but I didn’t like the ¾” of toe in. Closer inspection revealed where the camber and toe came from:


1082


So I ground out the crack


1083


And welded it up


1084


I also discovered that both lower front shock mounts were broken


1085


And the right rear upper shock mount bushing was gone, so I had no dampening.

Conclusions:
Don’t fly the car, air time is fun but it is bad for the suspension.
When the driver says the car feels funny, inspect it.
The 82 car should be quick at Eagles when it has all 4 shocks working and the front wheels are pointed forward

Dan Allford #82

Fourth gens win more because they car prep better than Mustangs. I least that's what we have been told. LOL

JJ

[HoustonNW]

Would there be any value to building up the area as a preventative measure? (I know this guy who can weld pretty good.) And if the answer is yes, would that be legal?

[Pranav]

Would there be any value to building up the area as a preventative measure? (I know this guy who can weld pretty good.) And if the answer is yes, would that be legal?

My understanding is the rules don't say we can, so we can't. However, if I'm (hopefully) wrong, let us know. Car is headed back up to the shop for exhaust work by MY guy who can weld, and I'd like to have him beef this up too...

[Rsmith350]

I see tubular K members in the 4th gen's future.

Let the twenty page thread begin!!!!.....GO!!!!!

[Wade]

I see tubular K members in the 4th gen's future.

Over my dead body! Haha!

[ShadowBolt]

Over my dead body! Haha!

You got a bite Glenn set the hook!

JJ

[GlennCMC70]

I was wondering if it was too soon for that joke. Guess not.

[GlennCMC70]

Would there be any value to building up the area as a preventative measure? (I know this guy who can weld pretty good.) And if the answer is yes, would that be legal?


My understanding is the rules don't say we can, so we can't. However, if I'm (hopefully) wrong, let us know. Car is headed back up to the shop for exhaust work by MY guy who can weld, and I'd like to have him beef this up too...

By building up do you mean adding gussets and plate steel? No. If you mean grinding off the old weld and re-welding it? Sure.

These things were just not welded right from the factory. In some cases I have seen the bead only on one side for 40-50% of the bead.
If you look at Dan's first pic w/ the inset pic in the top left, you will see a stress riser just above the dot on the "i". The crack likely startedthere and workedover the HAZ for the OEM weld and just took off from there. My guess is if that stress riser was not there, the crack would have never started.

The only legal fix is to just re-weld it or replace it.
Check your shit boys and girls.

I have never seen those shock pins do that.
Dan - did you order a new set from UE yet?

[Daniel Allford]

I have never seen those shock pins do that.
Dan - did you order a new set from UE yet?

Glenn;
Jason at UE said he has never seen the pins fail either. He offered to replace for free if I sent them back for inspection.
Dan

[Wade]

You got a bite Glenn set the hook!

JJ

Just wanted you guys to know I wasn't dead. I'll be ordering my replacement fabricated K member with the forward offset to increase wheelbase. Hell, might as well go with the SLA setup while I'm in there :-) I mean, its only fair since my Fox is so much shorter than a 4th gen right?

[michaelmosty]

Just wanted you guys to know I wasn't dead. I'll be ordering my replacement fabricated K member with the forward offset to increase wheelbase. Hell, might as well go with the SLA setup while I'm in there :-) I mean, its only fair since my Fox is so much shorter than a 4th gen right?
Don't waste your $$ Wade. The Fox has an advantage with the shorter wheelbase b/c it is more "nimble". At least that is what I have been told. ;^)

[rleng1]

Do these additional weld beads stiffen the chassis. I need to add some to protect my oil pan.

[AllZWay]

Don't waste your $$ Wade. The Fox has an advantage with the shorter wheelbase b/c it is more "nimble". At least that is what I have been told. ;^)

LOL... I am told I suck as a driver and that only superior factory setups are why have had a little success. :D

[Rsmith350]

LOL... I am told I suck as a driver and that only superior factory setups are why have had a little success. :D

And you laughed at them right?

[ShadowBolt]

LOL... I am told I suck as a driver and that only superior factory setups are why have had a little success. :D

Just to be perfectly clear (like Richard Nixon). I know James, Dan, and Michael (and a few others) would still beat me no matter what I drove. It's not like I think I would be outrunning these guys if I was in a fourth gen. I hope you did not take my comments that way James. Hell I had the biggest lead ever at Hallett and you and Michael made me look like a fool and caught and passed me like I was tied to a post. The car I was driving is not the reason you caught me. No sour grapes here.

The only thing I know for sure is I can beat the 24 driving with one hand.

JJ

[AllZWay]

Just to be perfectly clear (like Richard Nixon).I hope you did not take my comments that way James. Hell I had the biggest lead ever at Hallett and you and Michael made me look like a fool and caught and passed me like I was tied to a post.
JJ

JJ.... No way man. This is just for fun for me. Nothing you have said or anything is entire thread did I take that way.....but I have jokingly heard it a couple of times around the pits.

[BryanL]

The only thing I know for sure is I can beat the 24 driving with one hand.

JJ
Now this is why nobody pays any attention to what you say about anything else. 1. We all know you only use one hand to drive so no big deal. 2. After Hallett we all know that I am too fast for you. 3. I did realize that I have always just referred to the #55 car and that isn't fair to Jay. From now on I will make sure to state whether I am talking about the 55 car or the actual driver. So I apologize to Jay for talking trash about the 55 car when it was all meant for Jerry. I know I'll only see the 55 behind me with Jerry behind the wheel but not so sure about Jay.

[Al Fernandez]

Jerry, you already have to tape two fingers together so Bryan doesnt have an excuse.

Now, about those tubular k-members for 4th gens...

[Daniel Allford]

Derek Wright tells me that he had the same failure. After several races he noticed more (negative) camber and toe in. Finally it went to 2" of toe in and over 5 degrees of negative camber in the drivers front. Moral of the story: check you toe and if it toes in (cuz we run front steer cars) then check you K member for cracks. Dont wait until you your Camaro becomes a tricycle.

Dan Allford #82

[MikeP99Z]

Cracks in the K-member, PHR lower mounts, and front sway bar bracket mounts are fairly common.

Other areas to check for cracks (I've cracked/broken them) - torque arm holes (these wallow out or crack), torque arm mount on tranny, upper PHR mount, steering rack mounts and steering rack welded collar.

Oh, and keep rewelding the tranny tunnel cracks...

The pins breaking on shock mounts is rare - my guess is all the load got put through them on an off-road excursion. Dan - check your upper control arms while you are under there.

...Tubular K-member - welcome to AI.

[RichardP]

After Hallett I checked toe and camber, I was happy to see that I had gained a degree of camber up to -3 deg. but I didn’t like the ¾” of toe in. Closer inspection revealed where the camber and toe came from:


http://www.aicmctexas.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1082

Dan Allford #82


Dan and I were at MSRH with the Driver's Edge this past weekend. I gave an advanced classroom session on material strength, fatigue, and track car inspection using the above picture as one of my examples. Last night, while prepping the #82 for TWS this weekend, I found that the other side of the K member was cracked almost identically. Good think I practice what I preach and inspected the car.

The car is welded up and in the trailer, ready for the weekend. It turned out to be a good thing that we needed to weld on the car. Dan found out he was out of welding gas in the trailer. Without the ability to weld at the track this weekend, it's possible a few Mustangs wouldn't be able to finish the event... :-)


Richard P.