looking for S197

[ShadowBolt]

Looks like the thing to do. Told ya the tire was not going to fix the difference.

JJ

[GlennCMC70]

The tire change from 275 to 235 was a big swing. My bet is there will be another change made. This time I bet it is even bigger. The likely goal will be to place it mid pack so we know where the high and low of it is. Drastic measures have already been disused, but not likely to happen w/out a few more attempts to slow it down. Wait for the data to be scrubbed and see if it tells us what we saw w/ our eyes.

Don't buy one because of what you see now. You could very well find yourself w/ no class to race it in. I think we are pretty close to finding a solution though.

Funny how those guys complained that the tires fell off in a 20 minute race and they were not able to run competitively. Odd how the CMC track record at Mid Ohio fell on lap 16 to an S-197.

If I had to bet, I would think 3300lbs would be the new minimum. Perhaps 3350 just to be sure we are on top of it and back off in the coming years.

[ShadowBolt]

The tire change from 275 to 235 was a big swing. My bet is there will be another change made. This time I bet it is even bigger. The likely goal will be to place it mid pack so we know where the high and low of it is. Drastic measures have already been disused, but not likely to happen w/out a few more attempts to slow it down. Wait for the data to be scrubbed and see if it tells us what we saw w/ our eyes.

Don't buy one because of what you see now. You could very well find yourself w/ no class to race it in. I think we are pretty close to finding a solution though.

Funny how those guys complained that the tires fell off in a 20 minute race and they were not able to run competitively. Odd how the CMC track record at Mid Ohio fell on lap 16 to an S-197.

If I had to bet, I would think 3300lbs would be the new minimum. Perhaps 3350 just to be sure we are on top of it and back off in the coming years.

I was just kidding but it's BS. It would suck to get a S197 and go to winning from the mid pack. I don't want all that crap following me.

JJ

[michaelmosty]

3300 lb minimum? Adding 50 lbs is going to slow it down?
Didn't Anders come off track last year around 3450 lbs after the main race?

[GlennCMC70]

3300 lb minimum? Adding 50 lbs is going to slow it down?
Didn't Anders come off track last year around 3450 lbs after the main race?

I was trying to be nice. I thought that is what you guys wanted from me? 3500lbs it is. ;)
I don't know what has changed on those cars since last year.

[rleng1]

Didn't Anders drive his car home with baby seat in the back?

[BlueFirePony]

Forget the weight rule - I think there should be a Texas regional rule that all S197s have to run AI or AIX.....oh, wait...

[AllZWay]

I was expecting a post like this after watching the race. :D At least the changes helped.

[ShadowBolt]

I was expecting a post like this after watching the race. :D At least the changes helped.

No one cares what I say but I told the powers that be that the smaller tire would not make much difference.
Fastest lap and CMC TRACK RECORD in lap 16 or something. Yeah that 235 made a hell of a difference.

JJ

[Adam Ginsberg]

No one cares what I say but I told the powers that be that the smaller tire would not make much difference.
Fastest lap and CMC TRACK RECORD in lap 16 or something. Yeah that 235 made a hell of a difference.

You're a good guy, Jerry, but you bitch allot. You started racing a Fox, and complained you weren't competitive. You paid some pretty big money for a racing winning SN99 CMC2 car that was VERY competitive in CA, and you have only marginally improved your finishing positions.

Ever think it's the loose nut behind the wheel moreso than the car you're racing? To put it more succinctly, you do not get enough seat time throughout the year. Want to improve your finishing position? Drive the wheels off that car as many weekends as possible. I know you hate to hear it, but there is no substitute for seat time. Attend 15-18+ events in one year, or run a 3+ hour enduro as the only driver, really push the car, then see what happens.

Besides.....are there any S197's in TX racing CMC for you to be concerned with? We have one that races regularly here in CA, and he gets on the podium, but certainly isn't running away with the CMC regional championship. He's now left the series, as he's tired of all the rules changes for the S197.

However, as you so eloquently put it -


The whole Nats deal is BS.

What do you care if an S197 wins the Nats when the Nats is BS??

As I've said before, sometimes the pendulum doesn't swing far enough, sometimes it swings too far. We aren't perfect, and we don't always get it right. We do the best we can with the tools available to us. One day, maybe, when you grow up, you'll realize that it takes time to effect changes to try and make the platforms even.

[BlueFirePony]

Besides.....are there any S197's in TX racing CMC for you to be concerned with?
Don't make me do it...it would be faster and cheaper than getting the car back into AI-ish form. Talk about a moving pick...

[GlennCMC70]

You're a good guy, Jerry, but you bitch allot. You started racing a Fox, and complained you weren't competitive. You paid some pretty big money for a racing winning SN99 CMC2 car that was VERY competitive in CA, and you have only marginally improved your finishing positions.

Ever think it's the loose nut behind the wheel moreso than the car you're racing? To put it more succinctly, you do not get enough seat time throughout the year. Want to improve your finishing position? Drive the wheels off that car as many weekends as possible. I know you hate to hear it, but there is no substitute for seat time. Attend 15-18+ events in one year, or run a 3+ hour enduro as the only driver, really push the car, then see what happens.

Besides.....are there any S197's in TX racing CMC for you to be concerned with? We have one that races regularly here in CA, and he gets on the podium, but certainly isn't running away with the CMC regional championship. He's now left the series, as he's tired of all the rules changes for the S197.

However, as you so eloquently put it -



What do you care if an S197 wins the Nats when the Nats is BS??

As I've said before, sometimes the pendulum doesn't swing far enough, sometimes it swings too far. We aren't perfect, and we don't always get it right. We do the best we can with the tools available to us. One day, maybe, when you grow up, you'll realize that it takes time to effect changes to try and make the platforms even.

Not to go down the rabbit hole w/ you as I'm not looking for a fight..... but.....
I think everyone’s concern w/ the S-197 is very valid and they have every right to question its parity, and existence in CMC no matter if they race one locally or Nationally. Both of those could change any time for Jerry or anyone else.

[marshall_mosty]

My only post on the subject, as I really have no horse in the race other than have to play with your yahoos 6 times a year and want us all to be happy.

The S197 does a bang-up job in AI with minimal mods. The other platforms have to do a BUNCH to be competetive in AI to keep up with close to a showroom stock S197 (simplified for discussion).

For CMC, the same showroom stock S197 is waxing the floor with everyone else. Tires were changed to 235's to slow them down... Time was needed to validate the shift. Nat's this year have proven it may not be enough. From Glenn and Adam's post, there is discussion on more changes to level the platforms. That takes time, as will the validation path.

AI bitched and gritched for YEARS on ABS (Ford Racing vs. everyone else). An adjustment was made and our "family" went from chaos to relative parity an happiness. I have not seen ONE email over the last 9-10 months about people bitching the HP/TQ changes for ABS weren't fair and that FR ABS cars are the "must have" combinations...

Everyone take a few steps back from the keyboard. Chill out... If you want to have the same discussions over a case of beer at ECR, let's wait until then. Dr. Frank will probably talk about crazy ER stories that will make our S197 debate seem funny in retrospect.

:)

[ShadowBolt]

You're a good guy, Jerry, but you bitch allot. You started racing a Fox, and complained you weren't competitive. You paid some pretty big money for a racing winning SN99 CMC2 car that was VERY competitive in CA, and you have only marginally improved your finishing positions.

Ever think it's the loose nut behind the wheel moreso than the car you're racing? To put it more succinctly, you do not get enough seat time throughout the year. Want to improve your finishing position? Drive the wheels off that car as many weekends as possible. I know you hate to hear it, but there is no substitute for seat time. Attend 15-18+ events in one year, or run a 3+ hour enduro as the only driver, really push the car, then see what happens.

Besides.....are there any S197's in TX racing CMC for you to be concerned with? We have one that races regularly here in CA, and he gets on the podium, but certainly isn't running away with the CMC regional championship. He's now left the series, as he's tired of all the rules changes for the S197.

However, as you so eloquently put it -



What do you care if an S197 wins the Nats when the Nats is BS??

As I've said before, sometimes the pendulum doesn't swing far enough, sometimes it swings too far. We aren't perfect, and we don't always get it right. We do the best we can with the tools available to us. One day, maybe, when you grow up, you'll realize that it takes time to effect changes to try and make the platforms even.

Adam,

If you really new me at all (and you don't) you would know that my rants are not about me winning races. I am well aware of my shortcomings as a driver and I have never said if I had a better car I would be winning races. I never said if I had a S197 I would be winning. As I said above I was kidding about purchasing a S197. I did purchase the Tong G car hoping I could get to the front but I realized a short time after that I was not willing to do the work or spend the time away from my family to get to the front in CMC racing. I'm worried about CMC. I love racing CMC and I love the guys I race with. I just can't stand seeing the series go down. I think the original CMC idea was great but the changes to higher power, larger wheels and tires, and big brakes (most of the changes were just to let the S197 in) are wrong IMHO. The cost has gone up and in Texas it has driven several out of the series. I'm well aware that the car I drive is capable in the right hands to win it all. We saw that with JK. He went from racing with me in the mid pack to winning everything including Nats. He worked hard and spent a ton of time in the car. That is NOT what this is about. This is about getting the cars as close to even as possible and keeping cost down so we can have the largest fields possible.

I don't care about Nationals but I do care about the series.


Are you going to tell me the Fox and the fourth gen and the S197 are even? If you think they are then we will have to agree to disagree. I great driver may be able to win in any of our cars but what does that have to do with them being even?


So I have no idea where you got the idea that this was about me not winning. All my "bitching" is because of the love I have for the series.


JJ

[GlennCMC70]

Adam,

If you really new me at all (and you don't) you would know that my rants are not about me winning races. I am well aware of my shortcomings as a driver and I have never said if I had a better car I would be winning races. I never said if I had a S197 I would be winning. As I said above I was kidding about purchasing a S197. I did purchase the Tong G car hoping I could get to the front but I realized a short time after that I was not willing to do the work or spend the time away from my family to get to the front in CMC racing. I'm worried about CMC. I love racing CMC and I love the guys I race with. I just can't stand seeing the series go down. I think the original CMC idea was great but the changes to higher power, larger wheels and tires, and big brakes (most of the changes were just to let the S197 in) are wrong IMHO. The cost has gone up and in Texas it has driven several out of the series. I'm well aware that the car I drive is capable in the right hands to win it all. We saw that with JK. He went from racing with me in the mid pack to winning everything including Nats. He worked hard and spent a ton of time in the car. That is NOT what this is about. This is about getting the cars as close to even as possible and keeping cost down so we can have the largest fields possible.

I don't care about Nationals but I do care about the series.


Are you going to tell me the Fox and the fourth gen and the S197 are even? If you think they are then we will have to agree to disagree. I great driver may be able to win in any of our cars but what does that have to do with them being even?


So I have no idea where you got the idea that this was about me not winning. All my "bitching" is because of the love I have for the series.


JJ

Well put.
Honestly, I think that is where all of our passion (bitching) comes from - the love of this sport and not wanting to stop participating in this life long dream of being a part of it.