Dec. 7th Cadillac fun at COTA [Archive] - Texas American Iron & Camaro Mustang Challenge

ShadowBolt

12-05-2012, 08:44 AM

Leaving Dallas around 7:15am to ensure we get out of "Big D" before traffic gets too bad. Will stop at a greasy spoon for breakfast somewhere around Hillsboro probably. My new car got rearended a few weeks back, so it's being repaired so I'll be pimpin' in the Chrysler 200M...

Looking forward to it!! Helmet is already sloshing around in the trunk.

I assume we should say nothing about being racers?
Wonder who the instructors will be? I may call Wayne and see if he is one. I know he does a lot of events for Ford but I don't know about GM.

JJ

Crumpacker

12-05-2012, 12:27 PM

I picture the event going something like this..

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111224074739/uncyclopedia/images/5/53/Earth_exploding.gif

marshall_mosty

12-05-2012, 12:41 PM

I assume we should say nothing about being racers?
Wonder who the instructors will be? I may call Wayne and see if he is one. I know he does a lot of events for Ford but I don't know about GM. JJ

What won't go over well is Michael's helmet which is plasterd with Lemons and Chumpcar stickers... I'm planning on being open and honest with them, as it might give us a bit more latitude with the instructors.

Rob Liebbe

12-05-2012, 12:58 PM

RichardP

12-05-2012, 02:03 PM

One of you should get in the car wearing an open face helmet backwards. This happened to me once while instructing a press drive of a prototype supercharged Mustang when I was at Ford. It makes the instructors nervous.

There are so many funny stories from instructing. Those that haven't done it are really missing out.

I'm curious to see how this event goes down. Clearly it isn't going to serve it's intended puropse to Cadilac marketing. Terry Fair and his band of misfits are going to be the first ones out of the gate. That doesn't bode well for the rest of the event... :-)

Richard P.

Waco Racer

12-05-2012, 03:11 PM

Leaving Dallas around 7:15am to ensure we get out of "Big D" before traffic gets too bad. Will stop at a greasy spoon for breakfast somewhere around Hillsboro probably. My new car got rearended a few weeks back, so it's being repaired so I'll be pimpin' in the Chrysler 200M...

Looking forward to it!! Helmet is already sloshing around in the trunk.

If y'all can last to Waco, I'd be happy to join you for breakfast.

michaelmosty

12-05-2012, 04:32 PM

The goal needs to be who can get Johnny O'Connell to yell "SLOW DOWN".

Casey_SS

12-05-2012, 06:44 PM

The goal needs to be who can get Johnny O'Connell to yell "SLOW DOWN".

In HD video for the rest of us to enjoy. Possibly in a year end video of some sort. Just a suggestion :)

ShadowBolt

12-05-2012, 06:44 PM

There are so many funny stories from instructing. Those that haven't done it are really missing out.

I'm curious to see how this event goes down. Clearly it isn't going to serve it's intended puropse to Cadilac marketing. Terry Fair and his band of misfits are going to be the first ones out of the gate. That doesn't bode well for the rest of the event... :-)

Richard P.

Who is Terry Fair?

RichardP

12-05-2012, 11:58 PM

Who is Terry Fair?

Owner of Vorschlag motorsport. Capable of both a fast lap and of hooning a car past the useable limit of the tires and brakes in a single session...

Richard P.

marshall_mosty

12-06-2012, 11:02 AM

I'll try and remember to get my Drift camera with suction cup mount...

marshall_mosty

12-06-2012, 11:03 AM

If y'all can last to Waco, I'd be happy to join you for breakfast.

Sure can!! See you in the morning. Let us know where to meet and we can call you with an ETA once we break free of downtown Dallas.

Waco Racer

12-06-2012, 11:53 AM

Sure can!! See you in the morning. Let us know where to meet and we can call you with an ETA once we break free of downtown Dallas.

There's a few places near my shop on the north side of town. Cracker Barrel, Whataburger, and a few local joints.

BryanL

12-06-2012, 03:29 PM

I think you guys are really overestimating what you are going to get to do. I didn't see the information when this came out about what kind of day this is. But I doubt you are going to get turned loose on a full track in the CTS-V. I'm guessing there will be a lot of cones involved and possibly just out in the parking lot. Hope I'm wrong and I look forward to hearing all about it.

Although this is another great example of how inept GM has become. I'm curious if anyone has anyone has any old GM stock certificates. If you do I'll buy them off of you with a cold Bud Light.

kbrewmr2

12-06-2012, 04:17 PM

"... has become..." Some would question if they were competent to begin with ;)

Fair

12-06-2012, 05:18 PM

Owner of Vorschlag motorsport. Capable of both a fast lap and of hooning a car past the useable limit of the tires and brakes in a single session...

Richard P.
I am not a driftard, but I know how to hoon...

http://vorshlag.smugmug.com/Racing-Events/Optima-Faceoff-ECR-060912/i-k3QrSbW/0/M/DSC_2333-M.jpg

My whole mission Friday morning is to overdrive something around COTA. I've read up on where the stability and traction control buttons are on all Cadillacs. They will likely try to cover them up. Don't care. Any day I can thrash somebody else's car on a track, for free, is a win. We will try to leave you guys a little tire left...

We will also be at ECR on Saturday with 4 cars - our two S197 Mustangs ('11 and '13 GTs), a '13 BRZ and a '98 Firebird Chumpcar. Should be a fun weekend. :D

GlennCMC70

12-06-2012, 07:56 PM

I am not a driftard, but I know how to hoon...

http://vorshlag.smugmug.com/Racing-Events/Optima-Faceoff-ECR-060912/i-k3QrSbW/0/M/DSC_2333-M.jpg

My whole mission Friday morning is to overdrive something around COTA. I've read up on where the stability and traction control buttons are on all Cadillacs. They will likely try to cover them up. Don't care. Any day I can thrash somebody else's car on a track, for free, is a win. We will try to leave you guys a little tire left...

We will also be at ECR on Saturday with 4 cars - our two S197 Mustangs ('11 and '13 GTs), a '13 BRZ and a '98 Firebird Chumpcar. Should be a fun weekend. :D

Terry - I may come out for a bit. I've been watching the Firebird build.

Rsmith350

12-06-2012, 09:52 PM

"... has become..." Some would question if they were competent to begin with ;)

Can anyone name the U.S. president that said "What's good for GM, is good for the country"

ShadowBolt

12-06-2012, 09:58 PM

I think you guys are really overestimating what you are going to get to do. I didn't see the information when this came out about what kind of day this is. But I doubt you are going to get turned loose on a full track in the CTS-V. I'm guessing there will be a lot of cones involved and possibly just out in the parking lot. Hope I'm wrong and I look forward to hearing all about it.

Keep telling yourself this BL. If it's anything like the SVT event I went to in 2000 at TMS it willl be a blast.

JJ

Crumpacker

12-07-2012, 01:41 PM

http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af110/samcrumpacker/image.jpg

Fbody383

12-07-2012, 03:38 PM

You guys suck.

ShadowBolt

12-07-2012, 07:40 PM

No we don't, we drive on new F1 tracks.

We were the first group to get to drive the track since F1. Some of us were even able to stay on track but I will let Michael and Darci tell you about that.

JJ

Mrs. Crumpacker

12-07-2012, 11:19 PM

Damn it, logged in as Darcie.

Wait for it...

Crumpacker

12-07-2012, 11:21 PM

That was insanely fun! I'm not sure how to take this myself, but I found the Q&A with the very knowledgeable Brembo fellow was a close 2nd to driving on track. We did run the full track BTW, and there were cone 'gates' but they didn't put much effort into slowing you down as you would expect. They did have a mandatory lift point down the 11-12 strait, before the T12 hairpin... I'm assuming that's so they could go more than 1 session on a set of brake pads.

I also enjoyed hanging out, gawking at the CTS-V World Challenge car while chatting with Andy Pilgrim & engineer. He a pretty down to earth guy.. gained a new fan, that's for sure.

For the group that went to dinner, this will make sense - http://jalopnik.com/5932640/why-a-rental-car-is-the-fastest-car-youll-ever-have

Rsmith350

12-07-2012, 11:56 PM

Where's the rest of the stories? More than one person went!

marshall_mosty

12-08-2012, 12:10 AM

Just got home... WOW... What a day. COTA is an amazing facility, even if the bleachers were temporary for F1.
Module 1
We started with the new ATS 3.6L doing a short drag race (top of 2nd gear) followed by a stop to zero under full ABS. We then did an emergency lane change maneuver to get the Stabilitrack system to engage and same our A$$. Next was slalom. Did that twice. Discussion in the tech shed was about the construction of the new ATS and a brief on tires (what they do, blah, blah).

Module 2
Discussion was about brakes and steering (oversteer/understeer). The Brembo guy, as Sam said, was VERY knowledgeable. Our group had the most questions. Learned why a 2-piece floating rotor lasted so much longer as a single piece rotor (expansion and contraction stress). Then it was on to drive the CTS-V’s on the full F1 track. We had the 4-door and Wagon’s to drive the first time out. The instructor took us around first to explain the gates/cones/lift points. We then did 2 flying laps with a third lap at full go for the first 2/3 lap and then cool down.
The cars were great. 551HP/556TQ. 0-60 in 3.9 seconds.
The only issue was we had to keep the Stabillitrack on and it is VERY hard to drive that car at speed with all the “save you’re a$$” stuff coming on and basically shutting the car down.

Module 3
Discussion was about the Stabillitrack system and the development of the Recaro seats for the car. The last session was in the coupe. This time we got the entire drive time. I was first out on track, so went like gang busters. Ended up lapping Darcy and Jerry by the end of my 3 laps… Had a lift point at the end of the back straight that would have been right at the 4/5 shift (130mph). I was talking with the instructor and just forgot to lift as we were talking. Looked down and was going 145’ish by the time I hit the brakes (oops). Also got the car to start “dinging” as I overheated the motor in 3 laps… hmmmm. Also got a long pedal on the brakes a few times.

All together, good times!!

ShadowBolt

12-08-2012, 09:52 AM

There was no lapping. My "lady" instructor would not let me go fast. She kept screaming for brakes. She made me let two cars pass. But no one went all the way around the track and lapped anyone.....not even Darci.

JJ

David Love AI27

12-08-2012, 11:21 AM

http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af110/samcrumpacker/image.jpg

Did they let you go down the slide???

ShadowBolt

12-08-2012, 06:31 PM

I guess we missed out on the first DE. Never heard of these people but COTA is already sold out.
http://www.mvptracktime.com/id25.html
http://www.houston-bmwcca.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2532

JJ

marshall_mosty

12-08-2012, 07:20 PM

Short highlight reel. Didn't get good video from the second session, as the camera didn't stay "up" (time for some little blue pills I guess)...

<iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/55166809?badge=0" width="500" height="281" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe> <p><a href="http://vimeo.com/55166809">Cadillac V-Lab (Circut of the America's)(7-Dec-12)</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/user3649810">Marshall Mosty</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

Al Fernandez

12-10-2012, 02:17 PM

Very cool! I'm completely jealous.

BryanL

12-10-2012, 03:31 PM

Rob Liebbe

12-10-2012, 04:14 PM

since i can't get enough weight in my car to be legal i'm just going to let gunter drive.

wow!!!!

ShadowBolt

12-10-2012, 04:24 PM

I bet that was a fun day out. Sounds like you still got to run the cars pretty hard even with the braking cones. Pretty funny that some went off track while others thought they were trying to race. So who was on Ebay this weekend looking at new CTSV's?

Since I can't get enough weight in my car to be legal I'm just going to let Gunter drive.

As much fun as it was to drive the new track (and it is bad-ass) I was not jumping up and down about the car. It is fast it just does not feel fast. Getting in the car is like putting on noise canceling headphones. The car puts out sound to offset the road noise. Once I was in fourth going down the back strait and I hit the rev limiter (no matter we were at the lift cones) but I would never have guessed we were anywhere near that speed. It did not feel like we were going that fast at all (redline in fourth). Someone had fubared the front rotors on the coupe I drove and it would shake the wheel violently under braking. The car is so fast and since it does not sound like you are going fast you could get in way to deep if you were not careful.

JJ

Fbody383

12-10-2012, 05:30 PM

Since I can't get enough weight in my car to be legal I'm just going to let Gunter drive.We have a winner...

michaelmosty

12-10-2012, 06:25 PM

As much fun as it was to drive the new track (and it is bad-ass) I was not jumping up and down about the car. It is fast it just does not feel fast. Getting in the car is like putting on noise canceling headphones. The car puts out sound to offset the road noise. Once I was in fourth going down the back strait and I hit the rev limiter (no matter we were at the lift cones) but I would never have guessed we were anywhere near that speed. It did not feel like we were going that fast at all (redline in fourth). Someone had fubared the front rotors on the coupe I drove and it would shake the wheel violently under braking. The car is so fast and since it does not sound like you are going fast you could get in way to deep if you were not careful.

JJ
I completely agree!!
It is so smooth and quiet that it really isn't fun. With the traction control having to be in place it never broke the tires loose so the acceleration wasn't that mind blowing....until you realized how fast you were really going.
The car feels great but I just can't see spending that kind of $$ if speed is what you are after. I guess I am just a blue collar CMC guy at heart.

And for the record I went 4-off on two occasions.
The first time I just didn't realize a right turn was coming up and the second time I didn't put enough steering input in for a left hander. It felt like the car had about 5 turns lock-to-lock, very strange.

ShadowBolt

12-10-2012, 08:04 PM

I completely agree!!
It is so smooth and quiet that it really isn't fun. With the traction control having to be in place it never broke the tires loose so the acceleration wasn't that mind blowing....until you realized how fast you were really going.
The car feels great but I just can't see spending that kind of $$ if speed is what you are after. I guess I am just a blue collar CMC guy at heart.

And for the record I went 4-off on two occasions.
The first time I just didn't realize a right turn was coming up and the second time I didn't put enough steering input in for a left hander. It felt like the car had about 5 turns lock-to-lock, very strange.

I agree on the five turns lock to lock. Two of the turns the bitch said I should not be moving my hands on the wheel but in turn one and ome other left.

JJ

Fbody383

12-11-2012, 09:36 AM

Two of the turns the "highly qualified ride-along instructor" said I should not be moving my hands on the wheel but in turn one and ome other left.Sounds like she needs a CMC car.

Sam, how's the new V versus your old and busted one?

Crumpacker

12-11-2012, 04:18 PM

Sounds like she needs a CMC car.

Sam, how's the new V versus your old and busted one?

The new one is far ahead of my turd... brakes are about the same (I have 4pot brembos on all 4 corners w/ 14" rotors)... mag ride suspension in the new ones is insanely nice & the interior and powah are far ahead of mine too. The new V was definitely built like a bamf from the ground up. Mine is more of a plan CTS with a bit of faux suede, big brakes and an LS2/T56 tossed in.

I wish I could have driven a manual though so I could really compare it to mine. I ended up with autos on both drives, despite being the first to request a manual from the staff and my instructor. The major error in my game plan was letting the other CMC guys know they had manuals available by request (a friend from the prior session texted me that info). Lesson learned.

marshall_mosty

12-11-2012, 05:39 PM

I wish I could have driven a manual though so I could really compare it to mine. I ended up with autos on both drives, despite being the first to request a manual from the staff and my instructor. The major error in my game plan was letting the other CMC guys know they had manuals available by request (a friend from the prior session texted me that info). Lesson learned.
Blame Michael... He was the only one in the group to get a manual and the little $hit got it for both sessions...

ShadowBolt

12-11-2012, 07:31 PM

Blame Michael... He was the only one in the group to get a manual and the little $hit got it for both sessions...

My brother and I got manuals.

JJ

marshall_mosty

12-12-2012, 09:43 AM

My brother and I got manuals.
JJ
grrr. Your a bastard too then... :)

HoustonNW

12-12-2012, 08:49 PM

Well, if it makes you feel any better I was there on Saturday morning. I actually skipped the final session in the coupe because my instructor, "JR", was so bad that I had better things to do. He had me braking at least 100' early and then wanted me to coast past the apex. You think he might have noticed that I brought my own helmet with fricking HANS quick release tethers? At that point I knew I was done.

I don't love my job but it pays the bills with enough to race in CMC. However my off time is very, very valuable to me and riding around with "JR idiot" was not worth it to me.

But the positives:

I used to play a lot of golf and I really enjoyed playing a course that was on TV. So my only goal was to make at least one full lap around the track and I did that.

And the "tech" as the say on CC:

That said, we all know that F1 cars are fast. We know that. I'm assuming that everyone has seen in-car video of them at Austin going though the esses.

I studied the video also. However in the Caddy there was one part where I had to slow down to 50 or so, much slower than anywhere in the entire set of corners, and I realized it was aero. Maybe the AI guys know a little more than me, but I suddenly realized that these corners were fast enough that the F1 aero magic came in to effect and that is why they were sooooo much faster! The esses were fast enough that they didn't need to slow down.

Long story short:

The F1 cars don't get though the slow corners that much faster than any other car. Mechanical grip and weight and tires.

However once you get near or above 100mpg - fuggedaboutit

kbrewmr2

12-13-2012, 10:25 AM

marshall_mosty

12-15-2012, 10:38 AM

in multi-class racing like ALMS & similar you often see Prototypes get (nearly and not-so-nearly at times) run over by GT cars in slow sections. GT car optimized for mechanical grip because they're not getting much aero, while the P'types have some suspension settings & stiffness that actually take away mechanical grip but keep the car from collapsing into the bump stops when that aero load builds up.

That's the "made for TV soundbyte" tech anyway. I'm sure CC would pick me apart on terminology and such ah well... :rolleyes:

Also the reason why P2 cars can sometimes win overall at street circuits. Still has aero to consider, but not as much as the P1 cars. Just look at wheel rates for an AI vs. CMC Mustang considering the additional spring rate needed to support the downforce for splitter/wing combo. (These are typical of what Michael and I run). You can tell that AI cars with wings need a bunch more rear spring rate to conteract the rear wing.

AI Wheel Rate
Front 500lb/in coil over = 450lb/in
Rear 350lb/in coil over = 385lb/in
54/46 F/R Split

CMC Wheel Rate
Front 950lb conventional = 237lb/in
Rear 300lb/in conventional = 147lb/in
61/39 F/R Split

marshall_mosty

12-16-2012, 10:05 AM

rleng1

12-16-2012, 06:16 PM

marshall_mosty

12-16-2012, 07:13 PM

Marshall, good video. You know better than driving the car in too deep, and if you take the corner wider, it is a much more comfortable ride.
That's what I have always been looking for. Good job.
Was that michael that you past?

Randy,
There were a couple of times that the brakes got pretty long... oh well, not my stuff. I did enjoy it a bunch and if I had 9-10 laps strung together without driver aides, I think I could have had the car flat destroyed... :) On the line, I learned a defensive line thru all my years of "mid pack slacker", working my way to the front and having to watch my mirrors for other speedier AI guys...